Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Chat
irc.quakenet.org #teamliquid
IRC Web ClientTeamSpeak 3 (46 users) | |
|
| Asarha France. May 30 2012 02:07. Posts 30 | Profile # |
Hi,
First, sorry if I make some mistake, English isn't my first language.
Second, sorry if I didn't follow all the rules, I assure you I try.
Here we go,
I'm a new SC2 player (play since January as terran, up to plat, switch to zerg two weeks ago, now Top gold), and I wanna see if the strat I'm using is good, or if I would have win anyway these game.
First: two replay, versus gold & top gold player.
http://terranimba.com/replay/cRMmSkagLnCvAgF
http://terranimba.com/replay/RunCy2O0Mk1blENu7
As you can see, the point is to make a Mass drop on the main of the toss to destroy something (Entombed valley, I destroyed the robotics bay, Metalopolis, I destroyed the nexus) and expand, then, after this, doing a fake drop on the main and attack the expand to destroy it.
I won both of the game, but I also noticed that my macro was better than their (I didn't said my macro was good, just better). So there's my question: was it worth ? I mean, does my drop disturb them / make me ahead in the game, or actually desadvantage me ?
Also, some question:
- On entombed valley, where can I get my fourth ? Destroy the rock, or far away from my main ?
- Target fire the colossus / immortal, like I did in those two game, is it good, or should I just attack ?
- Was my upgrade good, or not ?
And also, anything to improve my gameplay ?
Thx to all of those who're gonna help me,
Asarha |
| |
|
| vBr Sweden. May 30 2012 02:38. Posts 175 | Profile # |
Just some perspective, I'm GM zerg and highmaster terran.
Metalopolis game:
Hatch first, risky and the benefit is argueable in comparison to the danger. Do you do it naturally or just because you scouted the gateway?
Floating alot of minerals, 600 by 6:00.
Instead of blindly throwing up 2 spine crawlers, sacrifice an overlord to get an idea of his army composition and size.
By 9 min,1500 minerals.
Zerg, like protoss, chiefly requires gas to sustain tier 2 or higher, but you dont mine. Good enough injects, I'd say. Made a evolution chamber early and dont upgrade until 13 min.
Dubious about the drop. I think its nice to extend your multitasking skills and drops are a good way to do that, but since he lacked serious firepower (he had one immortal, one colossus without range) you would likely have dealt more damage by attacking his army head on. I'll emphasize this - your drop did not do enough damage to warrent the investment. You killed his nexus and some basic units and structures and you invested 300 minerals, 300 gas in the upgrades alone, not to mention the many units you threw away.
Decent drone saturation.
His counterpush at 17 min would have destroyed you if he had colossus range and better control, you only had roaches and lings and he had colossus and enough sentries to forcefield you down. At this point, you really want something else. You invested in drops, and if you feel that you cant afford building both drops and some superior tech than roaches, such as mutalisk or hydralisk (naturally, broodlords/ ultra would be preferable, but its a tall order for a gold player to manage, I'm sure)
Finally the fakedrop did nothing. The idea is definitely not bad, it could be very powerful in a tight game where you need a diversion to engage, especially when you are on low tech and are reliant on him NOT landing those perfect forcefields. However, look at the supply. You are 200 vs 50 supply, the game is already won. Also he didnt even react to it, it's possible that minimap awareness is not good enough at that level to warrent the effort.
Entombed Valley game:
hatch first again, and this time you had no scouting information, although I like the 10 drone scout.
Up till 5 min, your play is definitely diamond level at least, good stuff.
Macro way stronger. Doesn't start to float minerals until 7 min. Starts mining gas earlier, which is a big deal like I said earlier.
Again make early evo but doesn't upgrade.
This game you sac OL and get a good scout, nice job.
wow no minerals floating at all @ 9:30.
Drop this time dubious again, you lose slightly more than him, but he did ok forcefields. If you had kept the banelings in one of the Ols and dropped them seperately ontop of his sentries, it would have been worth it for sure.
Second game the fake drop did alot of damage, you were allowed to kill his third and truly, there isnt alot else he can do at that point. He has to react to that amount of Ols, but I think the important difference here was that his third scouted your overlords flying it, making the drop attempt legit in his eyes. Then you did a cute drop in his main that worked out ok. Losing the Ols, however, ruined the usefulness of it.
The baneling drop at his natural was really nice.
You made triple evo and stop at 1/1 upgrades?
Ultimately, this game was decided more because of your, like you said, superior macro. Your drop, however, might have won you the game since you were allowed to take out his third and thereby compelling him to attack, an attack that you narrowly held.
Last edit: 2012-05-30 02:56:55 |
|
|
| Asarha France. May 30 2012 02:53. Posts 30 | Profile # |
I do hatch first versus protoss only if I scout a gateway / a nexus first, if it's a 2spot map or taldarim. In the other case, I go to 14 pool.
On entombed valley, I think it's harder to canon rush, 'cause of the 4 spot, so, like on Antiga shipyard, I hatch first in 90% of my game. Is it actually dangerous ?
I always get evo chamber early, 'cause of DT / voidray... I counter lots of proxy voidray / fast DT, and that has made me suffer by the past. But when did you think I should upgrade ? When it's finish ?
For the game on Metalopolis, I noticed I could have lots of gas, during the drop, is it better to go on a spire or 3rd tier for ultralisk ? (Hydra are so useless when they're colossus I hadn't made one of them since a lot of time, could they really be usefull ?)
I did 2 spine crawler, 'cause I didn't scout the nexus with my overlord (I move it, but not enough I think), so I was assuming he was on 1 base, and every time I see a toss on 1 base, against me on 2 base, I think I'm ahead and can do some spine to avoid any unexpected all-in.
For the gas, I had made lots of stephano's build in the past, so I don't know when I should take them. Against terran, I take 1 gas before the end of my hatch, is it a good idea to do it against toss too ?
(I made triple evo 'cause... i forgot one, she was under my overlord. True story)
Note: in fact the game on entombed valley was before the other on metalopolis. Like you can see, my macro isn't the same, 'cause of lack of concentration.Last edit: 2012-05-30 02:55:06 |
| |
|
| vBr Sweden. May 30 2012 02:57. Posts 175 | Profile # |
Also, some question's that you asked.
- On entombed valley, where can I get my fourth ? Destroy the rock, or far away from my main ?
Normally you take the fourth that is closest to your third, but this time you were close position and therefore that expand is risky. Instead, taking down the rocks and grabbing that fourth is preferable.
- Target fire the colossus / immortal, like I did in those two game, is it good, or should I just attack ?
It is a very good idea.
- Was my upgrade good, or not ?
The drop? from these two games, I would say its more likely to cost you the game than to win it, unfortunatly. However, if you are hellbent on staying on pure roaches the entire game, you will need some way of circumventing the protoss army. Drops are a good way to achieve this. Therefore you need to decide whether it is worth getting those expensive drop upgrades and sticking to roaches, or attempting to tech swap to something more powerful.
And also, anything to improve my gameplay ?
Make sure you actually upgrade. You build early evo and then you added 2 more (in EV game) but you never utilized them.
You throw away units a little too casually for my taste. For example, in EV game, you did the main drop and then you rallyd 10~ roaches into his natural that was taken out and all you really did was kill one pylon and one cannon. Thats 250 minerals he had to rebuild and you lost 750 plus gas. See the point?
|
|
|
| vBr Sweden. May 30 2012 03:06. Posts 175 | Profile # |
On May 30 2012 02:53 Asarha wrote:
I do hatch first versus protoss only if I scout a gateway / a nexus first, if it's a 2spot map or taldarim. In the other case, I go to 14 pool.
On entombed valley, I think it's harder to canon rush, 'cause of the 4 spot, so, like on Antiga shipyard, I hatch first in 90% of my game. Is it actually dangerous ?
I always get evo chamber early, 'cause of DT / voidray... I counter lots of proxy voidray / fast DT, and that has made me suffer by the past. But when did you think I should upgrade ? When it's finish ?
For the game on Metalopolis, I noticed I could have lots of gas, during the drop, is it better to go on a spire or 3rd tier for ultralisk ? (Hydra are so useless when they're colossus I hadn't made one of them since a lot of time, could they really be usefull ?)
I did 2 spine crawler, 'cause I didn't scout the nexus with my overlord (I move it, but not enough I think), so I was assuming he was on 1 base, and every time I see a toss on 1 base, against me on 2 base, I think I'm ahead and can do some spine to avoid any unexpected all-in.
For the gas, I had made lots of stephano's build in the past, so I don't know when I should take them. Against terran, I take 1 gas before the end of my hatch, is it a good idea to do it against toss too ?
(I made triple evo 'cause... i forgot one, she was under my overlord. True story)
Note: in fact the game on entombed valley was before the other on metalopolis. Like you can see, my macro isn't the same, 'cause of lack of concentration.
I never go hatch first unless I know he's going gateway, and even then I don't really like to take a chance (he can still throw up a late forge and block your ramp - and voila, game.). The benefit of going hatch first is negligable, really. I wouldn't risk it. However, if you feel that it is working, keep doing it until you run into problem. Just remember that the difference in economy is, actually, not that great.
Evo chamber early for dts etc is fine, but there is no real reason not to upgrade as well. I prefer to upgrade armour and later decide if I want melee attack or missile. Remember that the strength of a zealot grows greatly against a zergling if he has 1+ attack and you don't have any +armour upgrades to even out.
Regarding tech: Well you seem to me like someone who likes to rely on pure macro, so I suggested hydras. In truth, no they arent ideal. They are slow and hard to retreat with. But it is better to mix in some hydras instead of just sticking to Roaches unless you feel you are in a position to end the game. If you reach 20 min and yo uare still on Roaches, you could be in trouble. Like I said about the metalo game, you should have lost when he attacked, but he forgot to upgrade colossus range and his control was too poor.
I often swap to Mutalisk, which is a good way to contain a protoss player, but it is a risky move for someone who might lack the control to fully manage them.I definitely think you can reach at least diamond level just by sticking to your roaches, as long as you upgrade them properly, so I don't think you need to worry too much. What you might want to do, if you see that he's actually going colossus, is to make the spire just for corruptors. Having corruptors take care of the colossus makes your army way more potent.
|
|
|
| | |
|
|
|
| |
|
Sidebar Settings...
|
Store
