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| CygnusAres Singapore. May 31 2012 21:46. Posts 826 | Profile # |
| When you have huge fanbase, you should at least win or make it close, not being all-killed... |
| | "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul" - Invictus. Favorite Players: TaeJa, Bogus, and Life, Fighting! |
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| Jarree Finland. May 31 2012 21:49. Posts 827 | Profile # |
After TLO's code a qualifier run i would have thought he could win a match but no  Well I'm glad TL entered to GSTL, you can't win every time. |
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| rysecake United States. May 31 2012 21:49. Posts 2479 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 21:16 TBO wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:13 CDR wrote:
Liquid should consider changing their lineup by removing uselss players and getting someone who is actually skilled.
Liquid won NASTL and was highest finishing foreigner team in IPL with losing twice 4-5 to korean teams. do you honestly think any other foreign team would have done better necessarily? So unless you are advocating that TL should become a purely korean team...
That is what you must do if you want to win. Harsh truth.
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| | The Notorious Winkles |  |
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| adi_hsd Romania. May 31 2012 21:50. Posts 68 | Profile # |
| well that was embarrasing... |
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| xXFireandIceXx Canada. May 31 2012 21:51. Posts 3997 | Profile Blog # |
On May 31 2012 21:46 CygnusAres wrote:
When you have huge fanbase, you should at least win or make it close, not being all-killed...
I dunno about you, but I thank TL for taking the risk and challenge of going into the GSTL. They're obviously trying so I wish them the best of luck! |
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| ZenithM France. May 31 2012 21:52. Posts 8315 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 21:44 Sideburn wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:33 Talin wrote:
On May 31 2012 21:16 TBO wrote:
On May 31 2012 21:13 CDR wrote:
Liquid should consider changing their lineup by removing uselss players and getting someone who is actually skilled.
Liquid won NASTL and was highest finishing foreigner team in IPL with losing twice 4-5 to korean teams. do you honestly think any other foreign team would have done better necessarily? So unless you are advocating that TL should become a purely korean team...
They don't necessarily have to do better results wise, but it would help if their players actually showed up in Korea (preferably a few weeks before the matches), if Nazgul and Bumblebee showed up instead of talking over Skype (lol), if they didn't stream for days before the first match, if they didn't play showmatches in between the two GSTL matchdays, even if they skipped Code A qualifiers if they weren't ready for ZeNEX. It's like 10-15 days of their lives/careers, if they can't even give that much actively practicing 12 hours a day only for GSTL, a team with a much worse lineup could have done better if they committed to it. THEN they can get all-killed twice, I don't care, losing happens and it's perfectly natural. They're playing in the most prestigious team league in the world, and the only one that even matters. It's probably the most significant event in their careers so far (except maybe for HerO), and it certainly was for the team. It's like getting a chance to play in Proleague and blowing it by not even taking it seriously on top of being the underdog.
I honestly don't think that Team Liquid even intended to do well in the GSTL though. They don't seem to be about fantastic results. In fact, foreign teams in general seem to be more about building up the persona, fanbase, and marketability of players rather than breeding top level skill. I'm not criticising this, it's a much easier model for foreign teams and it seems to give them decent results.
Yes, it's what I'm feeling as well from Liquid and other foreign teams. However, I like to believe that in the future, being charismatic as a player will be a bonus to your immense skill at Starcraft (as it was the case for Kespa BW players), not the other way around. I don't see "speaking in talk shows", "having a cool hairstyle", "trash talking any opponent you cross paths with" or "messing around in platinum trolling newbies" as sustainable ways of a progamer. Eventually people start to criticize when you don't show any result, while they just can't blame you for being boring if you're the best player in the world. I mean, MVP could be the most boring dude ever, he would still be cool just because he has 4 motherfucking GSL titles... |
| | MarineKing is my way of Terran. |  |
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 s4life Peru. May 31 2012 21:52. Posts 1519 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 21:16 TBO wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:13 CDR wrote:
Liquid should consider changing their lineup by removing uselss players and getting someone who is actually skilled.
Liquid won NASTL and was highest finishing foreigner team in IPL with losing twice 4-5 to korean teams. do you honestly think any other foreign team would have done better necessarily? So unless you are advocating that TL should become a purely korean team...
It's just bad luck.. I'd say wait for the next season before making changes. TL has a very competitive team, even oGs got all-killed by Fenix and IM by QxC in GSTL. |
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| xXFireandIceXx Canada. May 31 2012 21:54. Posts 3997 | Profile Blog # |
On May 31 2012 21:52 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:16 TBO wrote:
On May 31 2012 21:13 CDR wrote:
Liquid should consider changing their lineup by removing uselss players and getting someone who is actually skilled.
Liquid won NASTL and was highest finishing foreigner team in IPL with losing twice 4-5 to korean teams. do you honestly think any other foreign team would have done better necessarily? So unless you are advocating that TL should become a purely korean team...
It's just bad luck.. I'd say wait for the next season before making changes. TL has a very competitive team, even oGs got all-killed by Fenix and IM by QxC in GSTL.
I htink people just expected a tad too much from TL in their first GSTL appearance |
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| bokchoi Korea (South). May 31 2012 21:55. Posts 5342 | Profile Blog # |
On May 31 2012 21:52 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:16 TBO wrote:
On May 31 2012 21:13 CDR wrote:
Liquid should consider changing their lineup by removing uselss players and getting someone who is actually skilled.
Liquid won NASTL and was highest finishing foreigner team in IPL with losing twice 4-5 to korean teams. do you honestly think any other foreign team would have done better necessarily? So unless you are advocating that TL should become a purely korean team...
It's just bad luck.. I'd say wait for the next season before making changes. TL has a very competitive team, even oGs got all-killed by Fenix and IM by QxC in GSTL.
Fenix didn't all kill, and had been training with IM previous to that performance.
Also, qxc played the IM C-Team and got really lucky vs MVP (he said it himself) |
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| nadafanboy42 Netherlands. May 31 2012 21:58. Posts 185 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 21:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:46 CygnusAres wrote:
When you have huge fanbase, you should at least win or make it close, not being all-killed...
I dunno about you, but I thank TL for taking the risk and challenge of going into the GSTL. They're obviously trying so I wish them the best of luck!
Me too. I think it was awesome of Liquid just to try. I do hope that if they do this again in a future season, they try really hard to get Sheth and Ret to come over. I think Liquid would do a lot better if they just said "okay, we're just going to go to Korea for a few months as a team and focus only on GSTL". Either way hopefully it'll end up like TLO said, a great team-building experience to motivate everyone for the future.  |
| | NaDa/Jaedong/Liquid-Fanboy |  |
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| Durp Canada. May 31 2012 22:04. Posts 2845 | Profile Blog # |
| I'm sad TL didn't do better, but this doesn't bother me. I do hope they come back for another season, perhaps maybe even picking up some mercs for a match or two |
| | SOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOOoo Many BANELINGS!! |  |
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| SkullZ9 Belgium. May 31 2012 22:17. Posts 1350 | Profile # |
Lol, people are saying that for TL to become a competitive team, it should become a all-korean team, cause as we saw in their matches, TLO, Jinro, Haypro are not on the current korean level.
But you forget that theese players are not on the current foreigner top level too... Sorry, I have nothing against him, but Jinro is bad. When was the last time he had good results, even in foreign tourneys ? TLO is quite the same, even though he had shown recent progress. Haypro, except his good run @ MLG providence, has always been bad in sc2 sorry.
But don't generalize it by saying that foreigners are bad... If they go to MLG, theese players have no chance, even if there is zero korean. |
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| Sc2eleazar United States. May 31 2012 22:18. Posts 44 | Profile # |
I guess that is just the difficulty. TL has one of the biggest lists of foreigners that I know much about that I want to root for. Sadly results have been somewhat lacking. I want to root for Sheth; he's American, he's a nice guy, and he has put up some impressive results from time to time. (Didn't he all-kill EG or something like that once?) I want to root for Tyler/Nony; he seems like a really nice guy, he plays protoss (yes I'm SC-race biased), but he just can't seem to pull it together for a tournament. Although I have nothing against Koreans, I like to root for the underdog and have the underdog at least win some.
Perhaps that's why HuK is my current favorite player. He's a foreigner that's able to step up against Koreans and take some big wins. I think if a few more of the TL foreigners could reach that level they would find their fanbase explode.
tl,dr: I like rooting for the underdogs, I like rooting for foreigners; TL has some guys I would love to root for but they need to put up some results first. |
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| Proseat Germany. May 31 2012 22:18. Posts 4181 | Profile Blog # |
Assuming Liquid will want to continue to have a strong presence in Korea, I think the following adjustments would be helpful for future endeavors:
Since TL and oGs have always been close and seeing how a new oGs has not reformed (VINES and Lure even gone to different teams), it would be a good idea to add at least SuperNova and TheStc, possibly even Fin (a.k.a. ForGG) if it's financially possible. That would bolster the terran side tremendously and counterbalance the many Zergs on the team.
Also try to win over former oGs coach TheWind as Liquid's Korean coach on site. And for upcoming team league seasons partner with SK to be able to field former oGs member MC as another strong Protoss along with HerO. Then Liquid could make a real splash in team leagues and the foreigners will have less pressure on them plus could improve by example.
I guess money is the key here.
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| | The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097 | |
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| doffe Sweden. May 31 2012 22:21. Posts 567 | Profile # |
to all the people giving Tassadar shit I would just like to weigh in. I personally didnt like him at all during his Code A finals run. I though bah, all-ining noob cause that was what he did. He all inned or cheesed basically ever game. BUT then I saw him in another context. Got forced into a macro game and did it really really well. This is not a player that cannot play macro, he simply prefers not to. (and as I understand it he played alot of macro today).
Certinly a player that can do both styles are better then one locked into a single one. |
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| SkullZ9 Belgium. May 31 2012 22:23. Posts 1350 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 22:18 Proseat wrote:
Assuming Liquid will want to continue to have a strong presence in Korea, I think the following adjustments would be helpful for future endeavors:
Since TL and oGs have always been close and seeing how a new oGs has not reformed (VINES and Lure even gone to different teams), it would be a good idea to add at least SuperNova and TheStc, possibly even Fin (a.k.a. ForGG) if it's financially possible. That would bolster the terran side tremendously and counterbalance the many Zergs on the team.
Also try to win over former oGs coach TheWind as Liquid's Korean coach on site. And for upcoming team league seasons partner with SK to be able to field former oGs member MC as another strong Protoss along with HerO. Then Liquid could make a real splash in team leagues and the foreigners will have less pressure on them plus could improve by example.
I guess money is the key here.
Why would SK want a partnership with Liquid when they have one with IM lol ? |
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| doffe Sweden. May 31 2012 22:25. Posts 567 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 22:18 Proseat wrote:
Assuming Liquid will want to continue to have a strong presence in Korea, I think the following adjustments would be helpful for future endeavors:
Since TL and oGs have always been close and seeing how a new oGs has not reformed (VINES and Lure even gone to different teams), it would be a good idea to add at least SuperNova and TheStc, possibly even Fin (a.k.a. ForGG) if it's financially possible. That would bolster the terran side tremendously and counterbalance the many Zergs on the team.
Also try to win over former oGs coach TheWind as Liquid's Korean coach on site. And for upcoming team league seasons partner with SK to be able to field former oGs member MC as another strong Protoss along with HerO. Then Liquid could make a real splash in team leagues and the foreigners will have less pressure on them plus could improve by example.
I guess money is the key here.
If we add MC, Stc, Supernova, ForGG to TL rooster I dont see how its TL at all anymore and I dont see any reason at all to play Jinro/TLO/Haypro.
I prefer them losing with some old foreign TL players then winning with a bunch of bought Korean pros. |
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| Devise Canada. May 31 2012 22:32. Posts 1070 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 20:44 Thomanson wrote:EG ahead in the dickish fan count? Yup. Win by a landslide.
Ironically that was kind of dickish |
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| Sandster United States. May 31 2012 22:35. Posts 1677 | Profile # |
On May 31 2012 22:25 doffe wrote:
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 22:18 Proseat wrote:
Assuming Liquid will want to continue to have a strong presence in Korea, I think the following adjustments would be helpful for future endeavors:
Since TL and oGs have always been close and seeing how a new oGs has not reformed (VINES and Lure even gone to different teams), it would be a good idea to add at least SuperNova and TheStc, possibly even Fin (a.k.a. ForGG) if it's financially possible. That would bolster the terran side tremendously and counterbalance the many Zergs on the team.
Also try to win over former oGs coach TheWind as Liquid's Korean coach on site. And for upcoming team league seasons partner with SK to be able to field former oGs member MC as another strong Protoss along with HerO. Then Liquid could make a real splash in team leagues and the foreigners will have less pressure on them plus could improve by example.
I guess money is the key here.
If we add MC, Stc, Supernova, ForGG to TL rooster I dont see how its TL at all anymore and I dont see any reason at all to play Jinro/TLO/Haypro. I prefer them losing with some old foreign TL players then winning with a bunch of bought Korean pros.
That's fine, but then they shouldn't be in the GSTL. TL really need to sort out its identify - is it a team of friends, or is it one of the best teams in the world? It just happened to formerly be both, but their team skill level have not improved as quickly as the rest of the top teams.
I'm not advocating adding the former oGs members, but the sad truth is that Jinro/TLO/Haypro are simply not competitive at the top level and have not been for a while.Last edit: 2012-05-31 22:37:19 |
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| Proseat Germany. May 31 2012 22:41. Posts 4181 | Profile Blog # |
On May 31 2012 22:23 SkullZ9 wrote:
Why would SK want a partnership with Liquid when they have one with IM lol ?
Because MC used to be on oGs and is very good friends with his former teammates and the Liquid guys. He even cheered for them on Twitter before this match today:
장민철 @sk__mc
today gstl liquid vs nsh cheer to liquid plz taeja zenio hero jinro haypro TLO im favorite players gogo liquids
On May 31 2012 22:25 doffe wrote:
If we add MC, Stc, Supernova, ForGG to TL rooster I dont see how its TL at all anymore and I dont see any reason at all to play Jinro/TLO/Haypro.
I prefer them losing with some old foreign TL players then winning with a bunch of bought Korean pros.
Well, I do not. And I wish people would stop with this nonsense of discriminating what countries players on a team are from. If the named foreigners want to play for the team, then they have to put out the results. If anything, this will bring the necessary motivation, maybe even be trained as certain snipers. It's not like they will be booted.
Team leagues are the future (Proleague anyone?) and thus Liquid will need to do whatever it takes to ensure the team wins. Bombing out in the first round of prestigious offline team tournaments such as GSTL every season just because you wanna hold up the foreigner flag, will just be embarassing and not help the cause.
Last edit: 2012-05-31 22:45:40 |
| | The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097 | |
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