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| RedDragon571 United States. June 01 2012 03:13. Posts 633 | Profile # |
Hi guys BugRancher.689 here, I am a top 25 Master Zerg player, who prefers to play very macro/agressive with strong mechanical play
Many of us Zergs were caught in a dark period of time in the Z v T macthup up until the most recent patch. In my opinion we were faced with 2 choices Roach/bane all in sometimes blindly or try to play out a macro game from behind hoping we were just better with a third equal to or slightly behind the terran players.
What caused this:
The 3 base CC builds developed by terran: terran unlike any race can take a quick third inside their base in relative safety. the only known solution to not getting horribly out macroed by terran was:
A. have really good fungals, playing from behind
B. Roach baneling timing
Either way, Terrans soon discovered the solution to both meta games:
1 rax fe into Helions quick 3rd cc + banshee
the meta:
The helions could for a minimal investment (perhaps imba) deny creep spread and delay the zerg third an obscene amount. Banshees kept the Terran relatively safe vs roach bane all ins and were able to deny the third of the zerg with cloak banshee at a time the zerg might be able to take on the helions and reach out to his third finally. Zerg tried to deal with this with a 4-5 roach expand into third, however the 125 gas or so and early roach warren puts zerg in a slightly behind position regardless. Also the expenditure on the roaches delayed tech a bit and was alright because you could be slightly behind and do alright because of fungal growth cost effectiveness, however it still required a disproportionately large response to a few hellions and required volatile economic swings in order to defend the banshees without having put on a lot of pressure.
As soon as the overlord buff and queen buff were added I started working on an efficient macro build to take advantage of both better scouting and the early creep spread I could get. I really wanted to reintroduce a strong Muta, ling bling style back into the matchup. While infestors are still obscenely strong in this matchup, I feel that I've found a relatively optimal way to get to Muta, ling bling without being to far behind.
The problems pre-patch: If you were a zerg player pre patch your main problems with executing muta ling bling style were:
1. your third was likely delayed too much by helions, mainly delaying the crucial 5-6 gases
--> because of this you couldnt really afford quick 1-1 and 2-2 ups for lings and banelings, good terran can spread marines really well to negate baneling cost effectiveness so you had an equal gas economy vs T far too liong and with ups baneling numbers wouldnt be sufficient to fight off certain timings delaying your third, If you did hold your third against a 2 base timing, you were almost always behind because of Terrans better ups.
2. Lack of creep spread really allowed the terran to be nasty about denying this relatively late third, MKP MMM +helion timings are insanely cost effective well microed OFF CREEP making it damn near impossible to hold your third.
3. If you went with 2 base mutas you were almost completely screwed by MKP MMM+ helion and Marine/helion timings designed to hit at about the time 2 base lair was almost done
4. Taking into account the above, the most bizzare thing about the matchup T v Z, is that large critical mass numbers of 3-3 marines necessitate Zerg Hive Tech to deal withm Ultras or Broods.
The possible solution:
Bug's 3 Hatch Z v T The build:
+ Show Spoiler +15 Hatch
14 scout
16 Pool
Drone till 18 supply, extractor trick for 19/18 (can confused terran if you leave it building while his scout is around)
If you can leave your 14 scout in the terrans natural and extractor the natural and cancel to scout for natural built 1 rax fe
Use non-trigger information to elimnate the 2 rax, proxy 2 rax, players
2 Queens after pool finishes,
drones
26 overlord
drones till 28
1 pair ling to stop engy blocks on third, or 1 rax bunker pressure on third, and to deny scouting of quick third
Inject at Main, tumor at Natural (important) spine at around 32 at nat
28-32 3rd Hatch
33 double gas
TWO drones on each gas when they finishes
2 evo's in good sim city position
2nd spine at 3rd when the 3rd is done
keep droning
Gas timings:
100 gas Speed
50 gas Baneling nest
100 gas +1 melee
Lair or +1 carapace or a few banes (depending on if your opponent went light on helions/ banelings if heavy on helion and lair if your oppoent went banshee)
If you scout your opponent light on helions and an overlord sac reveals only a few units place 1 spore in each mineral line.
around 55 supply is when you should pump a round of 6-7 larve on speedlings to help with speedlings
Macro hatch at 70 supply
3rd gas, put full gas saturation on gas #1 and #2
The 3 phases and timings Gas timings determine the flow of zerg builds completely
#1: 2 Gas 2 work in each gas phase, DEFENCE
+ Show Spoiler +you getting speed and upgrades in a reasonable fashion while pumpinf drones, You'll need speedlings and those 2 spines for helions, or possible bio pushes CREEP is incredibly important, a proper amount of speedlings with 4-5 banelings can defend almost any early timings on creep (7-8 helions) /(marine/marauder) / ect.
#2 3 gas full worker saturation :Aggressive 3 base ling bane timings
+ Show Spoiler +This is how I destroy Banshee/helion builds, once you have defended minimal, get up your lair, 3 gas and baneling speed, 1-1 should be finished in time for this attack, with your 3 base 1 macor hatch pump ling and bane until 130 supply or so and go roll in the front (around when banelings speed finishes). Because he did a helion banshee build he WILL not have enough tanks to stop this many upgraded ling bane.. Beware if he transitioned to mech, in which case go for a roach speed timing (pump roaches instead of ling bane
#3 This is the 6 gas phase: Muta's, Infestors or quick tech play's
+ Show Spoiler +his is where 6 gas muta starts to pop up to do some harass and defend drops. This begins when you have had a successful 3 gas timing or your opponent is simply turtling behind sufficient tanks or is opting for turtling and drop play. take your 4th and 5th base behind the mutas. I feel double expanding behind this type of play, because one, if an unexpected timing snipes a base you can transfer workers to the extra base, you can choose to half saturate each base for risk management, you can quickly go to 10 gas for hive tech, or you can be agressive and use the 5th base as another macro hatch, which is important when going super agressive heavy ling bane play behind good ups and only 10 -16 mutas.
Important key facts and a few alternate gas timings: The above double gas 4 worker at 33 supply gas timing is for 1 rax fe or cc first, I recommend taking gas a little earlier perhaps 1 gas at 27 3 worker sat, or 2 gas 4 worker, find what feels right VS helion expand, not 1 rax fe into helion. Sac ovie at 6:45-7:00 to scout mech transitions.
The 3 gas mass ling bling (bane speed) timing attack is great vs bio heavy builds an helion banshee but not worth it vs earlier tanks and mech. make sure you have a good scout timing to establish mech play (the only way i lose with this build, scouting mech too late TT)
Terran advice: How to exploit this build ( I play T as main on offrace acct)
+ Show Spoiler +Learn scv scout timings to scout early third, delayed speed will allow for this
engineering bay block 3rd if you can,
bunker rush third if no ovie covers third
try and exploit a marine move out with 4-10 marines amount need to overwhelm 1-2 queens a a few lings OFF CREEP( this can sometimes kill third)
using banshees or bio WITH a helions is great
build a damn raven and deny creep, its worth it as creep spread with this style makes mid/late game ridiculously hard for T
walling off ramp natural and having extra bunkers is very good vs the aggressive timings
make sure seige tech timing is perfect, scout gas timings
3 base mech is good, use it
Execution: You need very good mechanics not only for executing the build and timings but important for midgame muta ling bling, this is very similar to 3 hatch Z v P but with more micro defence while you macro. Scouting is key as always.
Engagaments:
+ Show Spoiler +Flank whenever possible
constantly muta harass
good ovie spread (from egg rally) to drop paths
micro banes to marines and helions and shift attack tansk with mutas, watch muta engament carefully so you dont lose needless mutas to rines
Spread by either patrol or manually split when engageing siegetanks
pick off T reinforcement line with lings or mutas
Replays:
will include more
+ Show Spoiler +
Feel free to discuss below, please leave gold league theory crafting out of it please. Also if you are mechanically weak player please be aware your perception of the game and match-ups will be distorted by your weak mechanics. Also Objects in mirror appear closer than they really are.Last edit: 2012-06-01 07:11:38 |
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| zhurai United States. June 01 2012 03:40. Posts 5559 | Profile Blog # |
Learn scv scout timings to scout early third, delayed speed will allow for this
engineering bay block 3rd if you can,
bunker rush third if no ovie covers third
try and exploit a marine move out with 4-10 marines amount need to overwhelm 1-2 queens a a few lings OFF CREEP( this can sometimes kill third)
using banshees or bio WITH a helions is great
build a damn raven and deny creep, its worth it as creep spread with this style makes mid/late game ridiculously hard for T
walling off ramp natural and having extra bunkers is very good vs the aggressive timings
make sure seige tech timing is perfect, scout gas timings
3 base mech is good, use it
so the only way to semi exploit this build is to go mech?
..... :| |
| | Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com | Streamer, Translator (JP->EN) | Staff at Fuwanovel and Assistant Manager for FXO.NA SC2 | |
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| RedDragon571 United States. June 01 2012 03:43. Posts 633 | Profile # |
On June 01 2012 03:40 zhurai wrote:
Show nested quote +Learn scv scout timings to scout early third, delayed speed will allow for this
engineering bay block 3rd if you can,
bunker rush third if no ovie covers third
try and exploit a marine move out with 4-10 marines amount need to overwhelm 1-2 queens a a few lings OFF CREEP( this can sometimes kill third)
using banshees or bio WITH a helions is great
build a damn raven and deny creep, its worth it as creep spread with this style makes mid/late game ridiculously hard for T
walling off ramp natural and having extra bunkers is very good vs the aggressive timings
make sure seige tech timing is perfect, scout gas timings
3 base mech is good, use it
so the only way to semi exploit this build is to go mech? ..... :|
No, that is the only way I have personally had this build exploited. I think there are more optimal zerg builds out there perhaps.
StoicRegret informed me there are better builds and that my gas timings may be in fact too early, and using roaches at different timings may yield more larvae efficiency. The big advantage of this build is the ability to do really early 1-1 timing attacks. however, in a mid game macro situation, unless I get 2-2 before my opponent gets 1-1, my 1-1 is too early unless i do some sort of timing.Last edit: 2012-06-01 03:51:13 |
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| Viperbird United States. June 01 2012 03:48. Posts 90 | Profile # |
Will have to try it out, sounds good! I really love muta play... I think this could even catch a terran off guard if you were able to hide your spire or they didn't scout. Terrans have been slacking on turrets lately.  |
| | If at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving! |
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| Anvil666 Germany. June 01 2012 04:18. Posts 81 | Profile # |
Wow, I have been looking for a good ZvT build to get back into practice, and this looks legit! Personally, I would love to be able to press 2 more Queens in there (like Losira does it on his stream), as it gives you SICK creepspread and a solid defence vs. hellions and banshees. Do you think that
a) there is a way to incorporate 4 queens, preferably having the 2 additional ones being built right after the first two finish, and b) how would you go about that (Esp. how would you adjust your gas timings for getting the extra 300 minerals in there)
Last edit: 2012-06-01 17:44:12 |
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| RedDragon571 United States. June 01 2012 04:30. Posts 633 | Profile # |
On June 01 2012 04:18 Anvil666 wrote:
Wow, I have been looking for a legit ZvT build to get back into practice, and this looks legit! Personally, I would love to be able to press 2 more Queens in there (like Losira does it on his stream), as it gives you SICK creepspread and a solid defence vs. hellions and banshees. Do you think that
a) there is a way to incorporate 4 queens, preferably having the 2 additional ones being built right after the first two finish, and b) how would you go about that (Esp. how would you adjust your gas timings for getting the extra 300 minerals in there)
Thank you, I've been modifying this build since the patch.
I think the best way to manage the 4 queens while sticking to this build would be to:
go 2 queens right after the first two, as a result cut the spine at 30-35 supply, I would play around with double gas at 36-40 supply, however instead of 2 workers in each gas, you might try 3 in each gas to hit the same gas timings.
Here is a more standard, gasless 4 queen into a quick third, while taking three gas,
This is more standard using roaches
triple gas at 44, into roach and lots of drones
http://drop.sc/189241
this is also a good build.
Advantages and disadvantages i've seen so far between these two builds:
4 queen into third and roach
1. more drones
2. more larvae efficient
3. better creep spread
4 queen into earlier gas and ling bling
1.safer (especially vs banshee (same way earlier third with spore deals with stargate better)
2. quicker upgrades (better potential for 1-1 timings)
3.better gas conservation (banes can be morphed as needed, roaches cannot)
Please feel free to add anything you come up with. |
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| CoughingHydra June 01 2012 06:13. Posts 57 | Profile # |
This build seems really good, but I think you should definetly emphasize finding out the terran gas timing with ovies. If the terran went 1 rax FE -> 2xgas then the only concern for your 3rd are marines that can push out at about 5:30 ( 5marines ), 6:00 ( 6marines ). Notice, the terran can easily hold xel naga towers because he'll know there is no speed until at least 7:30 and just poke with few marines around the map. If the terran went 1 rax FE -> 2 more raxes, then he can push out with ~9 marines at about 6:30 and deny your 3rd and kill it before speed finishes. So we see that a terran can push relatively safely in the interval [5:30, 6:30] ( he can scout with an SCV for the zerg's ling count ) and the best time for pushing for the terran is just before the hatch started ( easier to kill ) and he'll probaby want to delay it with an SCV if you didn't found it with first lings.
What to do? From the replay, you put the hatch at about 6:30. Larvae pop at 6:20, great! You can make exactly about 15-20 lings (depending on his build) from 2 hatches and should be able to defend it. If you put your hatch at 5:30 use your larva pop at 5:30 to make 10 lings and add a few later, depending when he pushes.
A good terran will always have the xel naga tower and will try to push your 3rd so don't get caught off guard!
+ Show Spoiler +A large block of text for a such a simple matter >>. Maybe I overcomplicated things. Please correct me if my reasoning is wrong, I would like to know what is the correct response. |
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| RedDragon571 United States. June 01 2012 06:43. Posts 633 | Profile # |
On June 01 2012 06:13 CoughingHydra wrote:This build seems really good, but I think you should definetly emphasize finding out the terran gas timing with ovies. If the terran went 1 rax FE -> 2xgas then the only concern for your 3rd are marines that can push out at about 5:30 ( 5marines ), 6:00 ( 6marines ). Notice, the terran can easily hold xel naga towers because he'll know there is no speed until at least 7:30 and just poke with few marines around the map. If the terran went 1 rax FE -> 2 more raxes, then he can push out with ~9 marines at about 6:30 and deny your 3rd and kill it before speed finishes. So we see that a terran can push relatively safely in the interval [5:30, 6:30] ( he can scout with an SCV for the zerg's ling count ) and the best time for pushing for the terran is just before the hatch started ( easier to kill ) and he'll probaby want to delay it with an SCV if you didn't found it with first lings. What to do? From the replay, you put the hatch at about 6:30. Larvae pop at 6:20, great! You can make exactly about 15-20 lings (depending on his build) from 2 hatches and should be able to defend it. If you put your hatch at 5:30 use your larva pop at 5:30 to make 10 lings and add a few later, depending when he pushes. A good terran will always have the xel naga tower and will try to push your 3rd so don't get caught off guard! + Show Spoiler +A large block of text for a such a simple matter >>. Maybe I overcomplicated things. Please correct me if my reasoning is wrong, I would like to know what is the correct response.
I agree, those weirdly timed marine pushes are the some of the biggest threat, however, Its usually pretty easy to scout if they took any gas or not with ovie change. I think a ling at front would give me enough time to see a large marine moveout, and ill have 2 queens to help defend and a spine. |
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 Belial88 United States. June 01 2012 06:54. Posts 5217 | Profile Blog # |
^ You just get baneling nest and some lings at about 45+ supply if you are completely unaware of what Terran is doing (and he might possibly do a drop or marine pressure), or if you know terran is doing a drop or stim pressure. Scouting is so you can be greedier and delay things like baneling nest, units, etc.
Generally good terrans will not have the xel naga tower because they don't want to be busted with zero units at home to defend. Marines are not great for map control, even if he moves out with marines, you just run your lings around somewhere else useful, ie in front of his base. Hellions, that's what is strong for taking towers and map control.
And if Terran expanded, he can't really deny your thirds with marine pressure. That's just a matter of having plenty of speedlings, or ling/bane with creep, ready. If you grab gas around standard timings (which the OP's build does, considering he gets 2x gas mining at 80% each, although imo why not just get 1 gas and only 'waste' 4 drones instead of waste 6 drones), you will have speed and banes in time for builds like FE into 4 rax total (which are usually very easy to scout due to the extra rax usually made as part of the wall-in, and hellions on the map).
Anyways, I don't really see what's so special about the build. it looks like what every zerg player does in TvZ, and has been doing in TvZ. Only difference is maybe delaying single gas to get 2 geysers later, and then only putting in 2 drones in them (i suppose to take advantage of 2 drones mine 80% of the gas as 3 drones do), but the timings work out similarly. A lot of zergs these days are getting 4 queens, if you can race creep to your third, you can protect it against banshees and hellions. reactor hellion still can do that, but T just has a harder time fighting the queens to deny them from spreading creep so they clearly have stopped using the build because of that, but the concept is the same - spread creep to your third, so you can defend it against hellions and banshees.
I would prefer inject/inject with your first 2 queens, in my experience (since I used to inject/creep for a long time) it seems to cost about 2-3 drones to lay that first tumor. Either way, same concept - spreed creep.
I don't have anything against the build - it just seems like standard play what everyone is doing in zvt (i also outline a general build order in my tvz guide, which this build follows). I don't know if I'd put a name on it, and there's not anything particular that terran can do to 'exploit' this build (and 3 base mech comes wayyy after any way to 'punish' this build... i guess you are just saying mech is good? but not many pros use it, and imo i dont think mech is good ><)Last edit: 2012-06-01 07:04:02 |
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| RedDragon571 United States. June 01 2012 07:11. Posts 633 | Profile # |
New replay added, beating top 10 masters Terran. absolutely crushed. This is an example of game where the terran goes into bio and then tanks. Defended third with slowling. Threw away lots of lings in a misclick but managed managed to win convincingly anyway.
excellent use of Over-expanding after 3 hatch phase, too allow for a crushing counterattack on the third.
313 Apm with 184 EAPM, aka train with apm alert and sc2 gears
http://drop.sc/189326
Last edit: 2012-06-01 07:22:00 |
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| RedDragon571 United States. June 01 2012 07:21. Posts 633 | Profile # |
On June 01 2012 06:54 Belial88 wrote:
^ You just get baneling nest and some lings at about 45+ supply if you are completely unaware of what Terran is doing (and he might possibly do a drop or marine pressure), or if you know terran is doing a drop or stim pressure. Scouting is so you can be greedier and delay things like baneling nest, units, etc.
Generally good terrans will not have the xel naga tower because they don't want to be busted with zero units at home to defend. Marines are not great for map control, even if he moves out with marines, you just run your lings around somewhere else useful, ie in front of his base. Hellions, that's what is strong for taking towers and map control.
And if Terran expanded, he can't really deny your thirds with marine pressure. That's just a matter of having plenty of speedlings, or ling/bane with creep, ready. If you grab gas around standard timings (which the OP's build does, considering he gets 2x gas mining at 80% each, although imo why not just get 1 gas and only 'waste' 4 drones instead of waste 6 drones), you will have speed and banes in time for builds like FE into 4 rax total (which are usually very easy to scout due to the extra rax usually made as part of the wall-in, and hellions on the map).
Anyways, I don't really see what's so special about the build. it looks like what every zerg player does in TvZ, and has been doing in TvZ. Only difference is maybe delaying single gas to get 2 geysers later, and then only putting in 2 drones in them (i suppose to take advantage of 2 drones mine 80% of the gas as 3 drones do), but the timings work out similarly. A lot of zergs these days are getting 4 queens, if you can race creep to your third, you can protect it against banshees and hellions. reactor hellion still can do that, but T just has a harder time fighting the queens to deny them from spreading creep so they clearly have stopped using the build because of that, but the concept is the same - spread creep to your third, so you can defend it against hellions and banshees.
I would prefer inject/inject with your first 2 queens, in my experience (since I used to inject/creep for a long time) it seems to cost about 2-3 drones to lay that first tumor. Either way, same concept - spreed creep.
I don't have anything against the build - it just seems like standard play what everyone is doing in zvt (i also outline a general build order in my tvz guide, which this build follows). I don't know if I'd put a name on it, and there's not anything particular that terran can do to 'exploit' this build (and 3 base mech comes wayyy after any way to 'punish' this build... i guess you are just saying mech is good? but not many pros use it, and imo i dont think mech is good ><)
great feedback belial, thanks for your presence, I am not saying my build is special really, just thought id share a decent macro z v t with the community. Yeah mech is real good.
Also that first creep tumor, you literally don't have enough money to use all the larvae for that other inject. Plus it starts the creep spread to my third early, worth even small drone loss if there is any imo.
I don't know if i like delaying tech and builds and whatnot if i scout the attack might come a little later, it throws off my timings, I go by the gas, However I would drone harder and make less units :/, I guessLast edit: 2012-06-01 07:30:12 |
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| Meff Italy. June 01 2012 07:32. Posts 277 | Profile # |
On June 01 2012 06:54 Belial88 wrote:
If you grab gas around standard timings (which the OP's build does, considering he gets 2x gas mining at 80% each, although imo why not just get 1 gas and only 'waste' 4 drones instead of waste 6 drones)
Assuming that we're indeed talking about 75%-ish output, then you get gas at the same efficiency but can invest into it later.
Assuming that you want to hit the same timing for 150 gas, this means that you go gasless for about 25 extra seconds. That translates in something like 65 front-loaded minerals; round it to 50-ish because you do have to spend an extra 25 on an additional geyser, but you free up one extra supply (let's just say that you postpone one-eight of an overlord for a first approximation). This means spending them on a drone about 50 seconds earlier, which translates into a net gain of about 30 minerals. Not a large advantage, but it's there. You also have a little more flexibility with your gas (read: you can rapidly get more if for some reason you need to do a deviation that requires a lot of gas), but you slow down your ling speed by about 9 seconds. |
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| CoughingHydra June 01 2012 07:33. Posts 57 | Profile # |
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 01 2012 06:54 Belial88 wrote:
^ You just get baneling nest and some lings at about 45+ supply if you are completely unaware of what Terran is doing (and he might possibly do a drop or marine pressure), or if you know terran is doing a drop or stim pressure. Scouting is so you can be greedier and delay things like baneling nest, units, etc.
Generally good terrans will not have the xel naga tower because they don't want to be busted with zero units at home to defend. Marines are not great for map control, even if he moves out with marines, you just run your lings around somewhere else useful, ie in front of his base. Hellions, that's what is strong for taking towers and map control.
And if Terran expanded, he can't really deny your thirds with marine pressure. That's just a matter of having plenty of speedlings, or ling/bane with creep, ready. If you grab gas around standard timings (which the OP's build does, considering he gets 2x gas mining at 80% each, although imo why not just get 1 gas and only 'waste' 4 drones instead of waste 6 drones), you will have speed and banes in time for builds like FE into 4 rax total (which are usually very easy to scout due to the extra rax usually made as part of the wall-in, and hellions on the map).
Anyways, I don't really see what's so special about the build. it looks like what every zerg player does in TvZ, and has been doing in TvZ. Only difference is maybe delaying single gas to get 2 geysers later, and then only putting in 2 drones in them (i suppose to take advantage of 2 drones mine 80% of the gas as 3 drones do), but the timings work out similarly. A lot of zergs these days are getting 4 queens, if you can race creep to your third, you can protect it against banshees and hellions. reactor hellion still can do that, but T just has a harder time fighting the queens to deny them from spreading creep so they clearly have stopped using the build because of that, but the concept is the same - spread creep to your third, so you can defend it against hellions and banshees.
I would prefer inject/inject with your first 2 queens, in my experience (since I used to inject/creep for a long time) it seems to cost about 2-3 drones to lay that first tumor. Either way, same concept - spreed creep.
I don't have anything against the build - it just seems like standard play what everyone is doing in zvt (i also outline a general build order in my tvz guide, which this build follows). I don't know if I'd put a name on it, and there's not anything particular that terran can do to 'exploit' this build (and 3 base mech comes wayyy after any way to 'punish' this build... i guess you are just saying mech is good? but not many pros use it, and imo i dont think mech is good ><)
Ummm, the OP takes his gases after putting his 3rd down, which is at about 6:30 on Ohana. Terran can see the zerg didn't take gas until ~ 4:30. If the zerg takes double gas ( and that's probably bad and unlikely ) at 4:30, he can get speed at ~7:30, that is ~8:00 if one gas. Terran can hold xel nagas until then and deny the early 3rd if you don't make any lings with a 6:30 push-out with 9 marines.
On June 01 2012 07:11 RedDragon571 wrote:New replay added, beating top 10 masters Terran. absolutely crushed. This is an example of game where the terran goes into bio and then tanks. Defended third with slowling. Threw away lots of lings in a misclick but managed managed to win convincingly anyway. excellent use of Over-expanding after 3 hatch phase, too allow for a crushing base trade. 313 Apm with 184 EAPM, aka train with apm alert and sc2 gears http://drop.sc/189326
Nice ^_^. Still, I think your opponent should have had an SCV at your 3rd as you didn't have any lings and he saw no gas. Then when he sees you want to put your 3rd, he could have pushed out with 4/5 marines which would force you to make at least 8-10 lings. I know it's easy to defend but you have to count that in. |
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| Xana Denmark. June 01 2012 08:42. Posts 128 | Profile # |
I've been using an extremely simmilar build against a no-gas no 2-rax Terran. Instead of the spines and extra queens, I'll get my third hatch quite a bit earlier. ( At about 5.10, basically as soon as your first set of queens are started and you ramp up the 300 minerals. )
After this I'll be delaying gas even further to get out extra queens. I'll also prioritise the first energy on my queens entirely for creepspread as the larvae from inject cannot be spent that early with a 5:10 hatch. After that lair and the speedling upgrade sets you up for a midgame where you will not have to use spores.
The reason why this has worked out great for me, is that I can send down 2 queens to deal with any early marine pressure at the third. It takes quite a bit of marines to take down two queens, and with that early of a third the Terran cannot really hit you with enough stuff to kill anything before creep pops. Also note that building 2 lings will let you take a position out on the map where you can see stuff comming. He cannot both hold the watch tower and the front this early in the game. |
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