SC2 2v2 pro tournaments

Does anyone else feel like the current tournament formats while great, is beginning to get a little stale?

For e-sports (and SC2 in particular) to grow, I really think organizers should start creating 2v2 / 3v3 tournaments. Sure, GSTL, IPAC and such are fun to watch, but its still group sets of 1v1.

Teamwork in real-time is what makes most sports tick. basketball, football, badminton etc.. so why not SC2? Who wouldn't like to see TL Hero & Taeja, duke it out with, Slayers EG? Certainly it adds a whole new dimension to strategic play, combinations etc..

sure, there'll need to be a lot of fixes (i.e maps), but a league format will not only be fun, it will be NEW - therein lies so many interesting possibilities.

Any brave, adventurous competition organizer reading this? I'm sure this will really boost viewership.

Poll: Should there be professional SC2 2v2 Competitions?

Its about time! E-Sports needs more variety (358)

70%

Bad Idea (153)

30%

511 total votes

Your vote: Should there be professional SC2 2v2 Competitions?

(Vote): Its about time! E-Sports needs more variety
(Vote): Bad Idea

Doodsmack United States. June 01 2012 11:55. Posts 2074

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Too imbalanced and too much luck/chance involved in team games.

Stress United States. June 01 2012 11:55. Posts 650

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Horrible idea, way to imbalanced.

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FluffyBinLaden United States. June 01 2012 12:03. Posts 267

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Good idea for the team leagues, like the old BW style. Not 2v2 or 3v3 only tournaments, though.

Riddles in the Dark. Answers in the Light.

Traceback United States. June 01 2012 12:04. Posts 316

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The current 2v2 map pool on ladder defiantly leaves a lot to be desired.

It would be interesting to see how an improved map pool (tournament quality) would effect 2v2s and if the majority of the imbalances could be fixed solely through the use of better maps.

ncsix June 01 2012 12:08. Posts 74

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idk, thats a bit like saying professional Baseball is imba because the Yankees or Sox can afford the best players, that doesn't mean the leagues don't exist.

nothing is going to be perfect the first time, but given enough games are played out over a league, it'll really show the best teams and surely thats got nothing to do with luck.

what exactly is so imbalanced? dual cannon rushes? omega pool? like all cheeses and all-ins even on 1v1s, they have serious drawbacks. Many people on the forum also complain about the arbitrary 200 supply, well.. here's a chance for 400, except the APMs are shared. I don't think there really is huge imbalances, and there's no one that could prove it, especially since the tournament formats don't exist.

Anyone here a GM from 2v2 on ladder? Maybe they can share their thoughts.

Cascade Australia. June 01 2012 12:08. Posts 2186

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I would love to see it!

They could do like they did in proleague, and put a 2on2 in together with all the 1on1s in a team vs team battle.
And they definitely need to make new maps (to fix balance).

Problem with 2on2 is that it will never be taken as the very top of the competition. I am very sad about that, but I start to understand why. There is no reason for the top 1on1 players to spend any time playing 2on2, so if you would put hero and taeja in a 2on2, whiel top-notch mechanics, they would probably do stupid choices, as they don't understand every possible timing down to the second in 2on2 as they do in 1on1. To make better choices in 2on2, they would have to train 2on2 more, which would take time and effort from their 1on1, which wont happen.

Otherwise you could have 2on2 specialist, where you could imagine someone as talented as hero, but playing (almost) only 2on2, to understand all the timings. Problem is that then people would start asking how this guy would do in 1on1, and as there is more money (and fame) in 1on1, they guy would probably go 1on1 if he was that talented.

So 2on2 would be played by the best 1on1ers, and possible the occasional 2on2 specialist (that would always be followed by "he probably wouldn't make it in 1on1"). That said, I would still happily tune in to watch!

edit:

On June 01 2012 12:08 ncsix wrote:
Anyone here a GM from 2v2 on ladder? Maybe they can share their thoughts.

I think GM exists only for 1on1. Not sure though...

Last edit: 2012-06-01 12:11:35

ncsix June 01 2012 12:16. Posts 74

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Cascade Sweden:

I don't dislike 1v1 being the very top of competition, its admirable.

Spending time training for 2v2s, has a lot to do with $$. If the prize pool were as lucrative as 1v1s, who wouldn't spend enough time on it.

The great music are made with 2 or more players, i believe great SC2 games will be too.

robm United States. June 01 2012 12:22. Posts 55

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On June 01 2012 12:08 ncsix wrote:
Anyone here a GM from 2v2 on ladder? Maybe they can share their thoughts.

There aren't any GM's in 2v2, top 1 Masters is the best you can get. Protech and Sieesch/Lillekanin are both at that level.

I think it's a great idea. A lot of people say it's imbalanced or cheesefest, but so was 1v1 back in 2010 and most of 2011. I do actually think Zerg is OP in 2v2, but I'm only top 8 platinum so I'm not an expert.

I would love to see this mainly because I want the 2v2 metagame and map pool to improve, and right now it's very stagnant. Lunar Colony was a great addition to the map pool, but I would love to see more.

LarJarsE United States. June 01 2012 12:25. Posts 1323

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sounds like FUN! and I think thats what esports needs!

since 98'

Josh_rakoons United Kingdom. June 01 2012 12:28. Posts 1157

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Would be good if blizzard actually attempts to balance it. Which they won't.

Kettchup United States. June 01 2012 12:29. Posts 1780

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The biggest obstacle is definitely the maps. There was that one great shared base map in the EG tournament that had great game after great game on it, but pretty much every other game on the other maps was terrible.

Fix that and it could be quite enjoyable to watch.

askTeivospy June 01 2012 12:29. Posts 1495

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redbandit is GM level 1v1 who plays with protech (also GM level but never has been GM in 1v1) in 2v2, they're basically at the top of the highest tier for 2v2

2v2 is just underdeveloped and will likely stay that way because people just call it imbalanced and cheesy. IMO its way more dynamic than 1v1 (ie that you can actually comeback from a snowball more regularily than 1%), and if people put more effort into it I'd be comfortable in saying that it could be viable for entertainment. 1v1 obviously more skill based but it just gets way too obvious whats going to happen after awhile O_O

2v2 maps need to be better designed though, both for rushing and macro games since some comps don't do well in macro games (ie zz v pt)

Last edit: 2012-06-01 12:30:46

hihihi

-Kyo- United States. June 01 2012 12:29. Posts 913

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I hit #1 2v2 NA like 3 different times with random team in a few different seasons, of course to drop below protech again since he plays so much, though I only did it for portrait.

The biggest problem I'd see with 2v2s is that unlike ICCUP where you'd get matched against people that actually have similar MMR in 2v2 RT, or even 2v2 premades, you go in and at the highest "level" on ladder you play the same people like 30 times in a row. I remember one night I played with the same guy on my team vs a premade team 10 times in a row. The maps are bad. It's imbalanced. There is no real way to practice it. And at the end of the day, the partners you see are more "for fun" than competitive and on the same team / trying to advertise a brand. So.. "practicing" for a tournament isn't really all that viable.

If the above could be fixed I could sorta see it making it further.. but atm.. it's just "for fun" and the people that are rated the highest simply play more than others because no one else cares lol.

edit @ the above: Protech is not close to GM 1v1, he had like 800 pts master 1v1 and 50% w/r last season he "went full time 1v1". Honestly, the best 2v2 teams would be the best 1v1ers together mainly because of mechanics, though none of them really play. For example it's a reason why check six's azide and ninja are good 2v2 even though they're both protoss. They just know what to do together ><

Last edit: 2012-06-01 12:34:22

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Seiferz United States. June 01 2012 12:32. Posts 624

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If the maps are significantly redone, they would definitely be awesome. Also some restrictions on things like money dumping, picking double protoss, etc etc. As the maps are now, there are a lot of stupid things you'll see.

Would be exciting to see though. Definitely would see more Protech at first anyway.

Last edit: 2012-06-01 12:33:23

Najda United States. June 01 2012 12:33. Posts 1767

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It's extremely undeveloped atm with bad maps and supposed imbalance (although I have no personal expirience). The 2v2 scene would need to start getting a lot more attention from the community before any sort of decent prizepool tournament could have any legitimacy.

"Admit your flaws, admire your weakness, hone your imperfections – then may you address your desires." — Paul Crik

AirbladeOrange United States. June 01 2012 12:38. Posts 2066

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It might be interesting but only as a novelty. I can't imagine it could be remotely balanced.

Nabes Canada. June 01 2012 12:58. Posts 1676

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Almost as bad of an idea as the bw/sc2 proleague. Everyone should be focusing on 1 aspect of the game, not having to learn 1v1 and 2v2.

TechNoTrance Canada. June 01 2012 16:31. Posts 498

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Except that there has literally been no balance done specifically for 2v2s. If they start to make balance changes based off 2v2s as well, the 1v1 scene is compromised and made worse. It could be interesting and fun to see it as a semi-competitive thing, but you can't expect it to be anywhere near the prestige and prize pool of 1v1s. It will never be on that level. Top pros want to be the best at the game, don't expect them to be practicing for 2v2s when 1v1s are where the real money and presitge are.

Last edit: 2012-06-01 16:32:07

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Primadog United States. June 01 2012 16:57. Posts 4395

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You can't have a pro scene without an amateur scene. EGMC tried to incorporate 2v2 in their team league, but it ultimately failed; happened in BW Proleague as well.

If you want to make 2v2 tournaments popular, just start hosting open tournaments of it. If you generate enough interest, maybe it can develop into something more in the future.

Thank God and gunrun.