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| rift United States. June 01 2012 16:25. Posts 1506 | Profile Blog # |
So I've never been very good at muta micro, even on lan latency. Of course, I'd like to get better, and it's the build I should be using in most of my ZvTs. But, playing on Fish with minilauncher gives me latency to the point were it's almost useless for me to go muta, as much as I'd like to. Does anyone play on Korean servers, and open 3/2 hatch muta in the matchup? Or 3/2 hatch lurker as standard? I'd imagine lurker openings would throw the opponent off, but I don't want to have to do them every game because of lag. Zerg players, lend me your thoughts.
The same goes for muta micro in the other matchups. I dodge ZvZ currently. |
| | “My mind is full of thoughts about Starcraft. When I shower, when I eat, I would always be playing ‘imaginary games’ in my head. I think it’s because no one’s forcing me to play Starcraft, but rather I want to do it, is why I’ve done so well." | |
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| sM.Zik Canada. June 01 2012 17:28. Posts 1683 | Profile # |
Man when I was playing on Iccup I was opening with 3h lurkers almost every ZvT and it was by far my best m/u. The build is similar to 3h spire, instead of building a spire you build a hydra den at 60% of the lair if I remember correctly. Don't forget to get a quick +1 carapace, instead of using muta to harrass and map control you use lurkers/lings, you take your 4th whenever possible just like 3h spire and then tech to defiler. Try to get some hold lurkers trap!
PM if you want replays of the build.Last edit: 2012-06-01 17:29:57 |
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| FlaShFTW United States. June 02 2012 06:53. Posts 4957 | Profile Blog # |
you still need to get the spire for the scourge, which is why i think the 3h muta is popular. you got it, might as well use it for something else. plus you can try to do economic damage where as lurkers, you really cant.
the big plus i think with 3h lurkers is that you can get stopped lurkers extremely quickly and when they scan, they'll probs scan ur main and nat, so plant stopped lurks there. usually you cant really do a stopped lurker attack when going 3h muta (as far as ive seen, its possible, but very rare because terran usually just turtles up until their 9 minute push.) |
| | Never Surrender. Never GG. Always Fighting. BW4LYF. Woo Jung Ho Never Forget. |
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| FyRe_DragOn Canada. June 02 2012 09:43. Posts 1403 | Profile Blog # |
| you can get hive faster with lurkers than with muta into lurker. but if you are having lag problems, you should fix that instead of trying to alter your entire gameplay. i have found fish latency to be perfectly fine myself. |
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| Archaeo United States. June 02 2012 10:10. Posts 308 | Profile Blog # |
| You're experiencing lag on fish with mini launcher? That shouldn't be occurring at all if you're playing with a #l2 or #l1 game name. If you're getting lag on fish to the point where you can't utilize basic builds then I don't see the point of playing on it |
| | Archaeology major! Yo my chingu!!! |
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| Saline United States. June 03 2012 10:32. Posts 71 | Profile # |
3H lurkers is great because you get more lurkers faster. The drawback is that Terran can seriously skimp on turrets and defense, and instead tech hard and plant more barracks. So, while you have a bigger early army of lurkers, so does Terran.
It means having a slightly earlier 2nd expo, which is good. But you're going to hit tough fire if they get their timing attack on your main, and you'll need good micro to get out of your base in the first place.
Personally, I think mutas gives you better early-game mobility, because you can keep terran in their base with harassment--and also forces them to expend time and resources on turrets and defense. Mutas can keep a terran army in the base for a LONG time--which usually gives plenty of time to get your expos up and lurkers pumping. Otherwise, terran is free to roam and contain, which is not a desirable situation. |
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| Chef June 03 2012 21:55. Posts 9708 | Profile Blog # |
On June 03 2012 10:32 Saline wrote:
3H lurkers is great because you get more lurkers faster. The drawback is that Terran can seriously skimp on turrets and defense, and instead tech hard and plant more barracks. So, while you have a bigger early army of lurkers, so does Terran.
It means having a slightly earlier 2nd expo, which is good. But you're going to hit tough fire if they get their timing attack on your main, and you'll need good micro to get out of your base in the first place.
Terran doesn't have to get any turrets if he scouts you properly.. And you don't get a quick 3rd gas because even a mediocre terran knows to camp his army outside your natural before your lurkers finish (unless you manage to surprise him by killing his scouts and having both his scans miss). Best you can hope for is to hide some hydras before he starts camping, and morph them outside your base. Otherwise you have no map control until you break out, whereas with muta you can bypass a contain and thus Terran isn't really allowed to camp outside your nat, and thus you're allowed to expand as you please.
OP, it's fine to mix in lots of builds and try new stuff, but you should just learn to muta micro. Even with bad latancy it is usually ok. Just try to be less aggressive with them don't don't feel you need to win the game with muta micro, like a lot of bad players. Use them for their simple purpose of containing and helping you get to lurkers and hive tech. Pick off stray scvs building a supply depot and don't dart in and out of their main army supported by turrets. You will probably find that controlling muta isn't the hard part, it's that you have had poor decision making with them. If latancy is bad, that will be far more annoying for him with a mid game lurker switch, since if you units don't listen for 2-3 seconds that's enough time for lurkers to burrow and kill all your rines. aka you don't have to go lurker straight out if you don't want to, but if the lag is really bad a strong lurker midgame could be better than a super quick hive.
In any case, Fish doesn't give me terrible lag in game. I just have difficulty getting games on it. I have yet to take the time to learn exactly what I'm supposed to do to make them want to play with me  But the only people who ever gave me lag in BW consistently were from Peru.. |
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| Saline United States. June 04 2012 00:48. Posts 71 | Profile # |
@Chef--totally agree with you. I meant to say, "you don't need ANY turrets" instead of "you can skimp on turrets."
I usually still make a turret or so at my expo anyway sometimes, just in case he's hiding a spire somewhere, but not always. Iv'e seen quite a few 3H lurks recently, and come to think of it I didn't build any.
But yes, I can't stress the issue enough that, with 3H lurks, you get insta-contained by terran, and it's a bitch to break out of. |
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| puppykiller United States. June 04 2012 14:47. Posts 1953 | Profile Blog # |
| I think considering +1 5 rax is so popular, 3 hat lurker will be a really good bo on fish. |
| | Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW? |
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| Jealous United States. June 07 2012 11:04. Posts 2200 | Profile Blog # |
On June 03 2012 21:55 Chef wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 10:32 Saline wrote:
3H lurkers is great because you get more lurkers faster. The drawback is that Terran can seriously skimp on turrets and defense, and instead tech hard and plant more barracks. So, while you have a bigger early army of lurkers, so does Terran.
It means having a slightly earlier 2nd expo, which is good. But you're going to hit tough fire if they get their timing attack on your main, and you'll need good micro to get out of your base in the first place.
Terran doesn't have to get any turrets if he scouts you properly.. And you don't get a quick 3rd gas because even a mediocre terran knows to camp his army outside your natural before your lurkers finish (unless you manage to surprise him by killing his scouts and having both his scans miss). Best you can hope for is to hide some hydras before he starts camping, and morph them outside your base. Otherwise you have no map control until you break out, whereas with muta you can bypass a contain and thus Terran isn't really allowed to camp outside your nat, and thus you're allowed to expand as you please. OP, it's fine to mix in lots of builds and try new stuff, but you should just learn to muta micro. Even with bad latancy it is usually ok. Just try to be less aggressive with them don't don't feel you need to win the game with muta micro, like a lot of bad players. Use them for their simple purpose of containing and helping you get to lurkers and hive tech. Pick off stray scvs building a supply depot and don't dart in and out of their main army supported by turrets. You will probably find that controlling muta isn't the hard part, it's that you have had poor decision making with them. If latancy is bad, that will be far more annoying for him with a mid game lurker switch, since if you units don't listen for 2-3 seconds that's enough time for lurkers to burrow and kill all your rines. aka you don't have to go lurker straight out if you don't want to, but if the lag is really bad a strong lurker midgame could be better than a super quick hive. In any case, Fish doesn't give me terrible lag in game. I just have difficulty getting games on it. I have yet to take the time to learn exactly what I'm supposed to do to make them want to play with me But the only people who ever gave me lag in BW consistently were from Peru..
On Fish the best way to get games is to message people in channel with your race, the race you are looking to play if any, and the rating you are looking for. What I do is keep Korean names for protoss terran and zerg in my profile then copy and paste them. If you just want to host/join games (less efficient I'm told but it's what I do) I read the names to see what race they are and/or what race they are looking for. Having 'gg' in Korean (ww with Korean language) saved to clipboard helps because then they think you are Korean and you get to play. |
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| ghrur United States. June 08 2012 14:32. Posts 2620 | Profile Blog # |
| Eh? I just host 1v1 *korean FS*#L2 and I get games really quickly. I mean, I haven't yet played Ladder, but Melee is easy enough to get games, and these guys are normally better than I anyway. |
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| [sc1f]eonzerg Spain. June 08 2012 21:33. Posts 1487 | Profile Blog # |
| 8 rax is also really strong on fish =( and 99 too |
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