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| iSHOKZ Germany. June 02 2012 03:19. Posts 121 | Profile # |
Hello Team Liquid,
recently there was a discussion about a build uses by ST_Parting in the GSL against Terran.
You can find the discussion here: -klick to get to the forumthread-
I have found that buildorder very interesting, and gave it my own little adjustments to make it slightly better (in my opinion) than the buildorder in the discussion, furthermore i am going to describe how to react to your scouting information.
I am a mid Master Protoss playing rarley ladder, mostly tournaments and custom games on EU Server.
This guide is more about the opening, you will not find a buildorder till 10 Minutes, just the reactions you need to make to your scouting. If you get into the midgame you can transition out of that buildorder like you want, its more about holding the early rushes.
Thanks to Naniwa (or Parting) who invented this awesome build
A) The buildorder and important notes
9 - Pylo
Chronoboost
Chronoboost
13 - Gate | Send probe to scout
Chronoboost
17 - Gas
Rally 17th Probe to your Nexus, it arrives when you have 400 Minerals, after that probecut.
17 - Nexus
17 - Pylon
17 - Core
Resume probe production
18 - Zealot
21 - Stalker
Dont make a pylon for the 26/26 supply block, your nexus finishes in time if executed perfectly
-The Buildorder gives you 100 Gas when the Core+Zealot finished
-You use the supply of the 2nd nexus
-Position your 2nd Pylo on the highground in your main, close to the nexus, so you are able to warp in stuff at your nexus and the pylon does not get sniped if the terran is rushing you
B) Follow ups after scouting
You scout terran is at no gas:
If you dont see an indication for a marine all in be happy and use your advantage. Chronoboost your probes nonstop since the only really scary timing will be around the 9:30-10 Minutes where the 2 Medivac push will arive.
But be sure to poke with your first Stalker to see if a 4 rax or something is incoming after the expansion.
In the buildorder you should not cut probes to get your 2 additional gates, if you have them up get out the robo for an observer and if you want fast colossi tech (my favorite follow up).
Summary:
Poke with Stalkers to see expansion, if yes - CHRONOBOOST YOUR PROBES !
You scout terran has gas OR you were not able to scout
Since you can't get any further scouting information of the terran and you dont know if its a 1 rax reactor expand, a 2 rax or a banshee play be sure to get 2 additional gates at the 5 minute mark. Chronoboost your warptech 3 times and it will be finished if the gates are ready. With these 3 gates you are able to defend a 2 rax and the 3 helion 7 marine drop. If you want to be save get an 4th Gate, BUT be sure to have your latest robotics at 6:20 so you have observers in time for a cloake banshee.
Summary:
chronoboost warptech 3 times
5:00 - 2 more Gates
<6:20 - Robotics for Observer
If you scout something proxy-ish
Cut probes and get a early 2nd Gate (around 4:10) like in my replays vs. TheBigOne. Use all your additional chronoboost on chronoboosting units rather than warptech. You can also chronoboost your zealot and chronoboost a 2nd after that, instead of the stalker
Always scout with one probe at your expansion for bunkers. In an early engagement focusfire the scv that is building a bunker with your stalkers. If necessary you can even sacrafice your expansion against an all in - nothing new
C) Buildorder eco comparison
Nexus First(P) > CC First(T) > Parting FE(P) > Gasless FE(T) > 1 Gate FE
D) Weakness - counters
- 11 / 11 Proxyrax Marine SCV Train Allin
- Reaper Opening, the fastest played reaper should arive around 12 seconds earlier than your first stalker. But with good micro the zealot will delay him and you should be fine
- Blind expansionblocks (depot/ebay)
- Good Terrans who scout your late gas will immediately block your expand
-> i would not recommend to play this build more than once in a best of series, and i also would not reccomend to play it versus goody because he counters you twice, blindly !
E) Replays
double reactor factory Helion Marauder Allin - vs. BigOne (TLO's Brother) Game 1 http://drop.sc/189583
Proxy Factory Proxy Rax Marine Marauder Helion Allin - vs. BigOne (TLO's Brother) Game 2 http://drop.sc/189582
Depotblock into 2 Rax (one proxy) Marauders - vs. NoxOut http://drop.sc/189585
-> Good example for the fact how even a short block can throw your build off and makes you voulnerable ; also shows that good players might punish you if they scout
F) Feedback
I would like to have some feedback for the guide. Is there something missing in your opinion just tell me.
Have you tried it out and found other weaknesses or a better execution?
greetings iFiSHOKZLast edit: 2012-06-09 21:15:34 |
| | Caster of twitch.tv/inFluenceTV | GFX Designer |
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| Arcanefrost Belgium. June 02 2012 03:20. Posts 1119 | Profile Blog # | |
| | Valor is a poor substitute for numbers. |
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| KazmA United States. June 02 2012 03:27. Posts 100 | Profile # |
| Been thinking about messing around with protoss tonight. Definitely going to try this when I get home and ladder! Great build for a noob like me, thanks! |
| | "I intend to live forever, or die trying"- Groucho Marks |
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| Complete United States. June 02 2012 03:36. Posts 813 | Profile # |
I do this on ladder as my standard PvT opening. The only issue I've really had with it waas against marine/scv allin (it's holdable, but you really need your 2 stalkers in the correct position to kite and you need to execute your BO well to have the proper amount of units).
Also, any ideas on how to adjust on if they scout early and block your 17 nexus with an engineering bay or something?
I usually do 3 chrono's on probes, 1 on the gateway and the rest on WG. I usually only get 2 gateways and a robo unless I scout an expansion or a marauder/reaper. I like to get 2 observers out asap so I can send the first one accross the map and still have a 2nd one in time for cloasked bancheese. |
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 Masvidal Korea (South). June 02 2012 08:54. Posts 213 | Profile # |
In my PvT, I like to use Parting's other 1 Gate FE, the one where he gets a core before Nexus. Its safer and more flexible, and still puts you in a better position economically than MC's by a lottle. The openimg BO, in case anyone's interested:
9 - Pylon (CB Nexus 2x)
13 - Gateway (CB Nexus), Scout
15- Assimilator x2 (2 Probes in each)
17 - Pylon
17 - Cybernetics Core
18 - Zealot
* - @ 100% Core: Stalker (CB), WG Research
24 - Nexus
25 - Pylon
26 - Robotics Facility (cut probes for a bit)
26 - Gateway x2
26 - Sentry
Once safe and have your expo going and observer, next building is Forge for armor. Go from there as you like.
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| | "Teamliquid is a place for starcraft, not boobs." -autoexec |
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| -Exalt- United States. June 02 2012 09:09. Posts 966 | Profile Blog # |
great build, really important to scout with it though.
it's really easy to get bunkered with marine+ scvs pulls at your nat. If I can't scout his expansion, I usually always rush to 3 gates and all chronos on WG as it's really the only way to hold your expo vs these aggressive builds. You get such an econ from the early nexus though that building these 2-3 additional gates really quickly is quite easy due to the influx of minerals.
On June 02 2012 03:36 Complete wrote:
Also, any ideas on how to adjust on if they scout early and block your 17 nexus with an engineering bay or something
what I do is send a probe to my nat slightly earlier and hide it behind the minerals, never have gotten engi blocked this way unless he blindly blocks it w/out scouting (rare). Last edit: 2012-06-02 09:12:45 |
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| tuestresfat June 02 2012 10:09. Posts 2478 | Profile # |
I may be wrong but I only ever see PartinG do this on Cloud Kingdom, Metropolis, and Daybreak.
Also he scouts after 2nd pylon, and positions it infront of his nexus so he can spot any bunker pressure (if there is he reacts by chrono'ing his first zealot).
Sadly I have never seen this vs a 2rax proxy though I'm pretty convinced this wouldn't hold. |
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| McTeazy Canada. June 02 2012 13:29. Posts 145 | Profile # |
tried this build tonight on the ladder in my PvT's. I've been trying to do the parting style day9 described, but i' finding the daily was a little sketchy with the follow ups to the 8-9 minute push.
anywho, back on topic, i love the early nexus. it normally goes down before i get scouted and i imagine it looks like a nexus first... until he sees a finished gate in the main. My main question is the gas timing. "17 supply" seems way too general. should it be built as soon as i hit 17 supply then immediately 3 guys when finished?
i tried a couple different ways and i ended up either coming short or having too much gas most of the time (for wg and stalker).
i imagine the proper timing would be to have the assimilator finish just as the nexus is going down? |
| | a person is smart, people are stupid |
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| CrazyF1r3f0x United States. June 02 2012 13:51. Posts 1735 | Profile Blog # |
| would it be worth it to get a gas on 15--rather than 17, and just delay the mining by a little, so that the Terran thinks it's a normal 1 gate FE and doesn't try to block the expansion? |
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| tuestresfat June 02 2012 14:18. Posts 2478 | Profile # |
On June 02 2012 13:29 McTeazy wrote:
tried this build tonight on the ladder in my PvT's. I've been trying to do the parting style day9 described, but i' finding the daily was a little sketchy with the follow ups to the 8-9 minute push.
anywho, back on topic, i love the early nexus. it normally goes down before i get scouted and i imagine it looks like a nexus first... until he sees a finished gate in the main. My main question is the gas timing. "17 supply" seems way too general. should it be built as soon as i hit 17 supply then immediately 3 guys when finished?
i tried a couple different ways and i ended up either coming short or having too much gas most of the time (for wg and stalker).
i imagine the proper timing would be to have the assimilator finish just as the nexus is going down?
when someone says build something on 17supply, it means as soon as you hit 17 supply AND you can afford it, build it. you will obviously have more than 75minerals so on 16 just rally that probe to the geyser such that when you are at 17 supply you immediately build the assimilator. then re-rally your nexus to your nat and you will have 400minerals when your probe gets there. yes, the timing is pretty much when your nexus finishes, which is really annoying because i'm always spamming "e" to build my 2nd pylon asap but i have to put guys on gas too.
On June 02 2012 13:51 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
would it be worth it to get a gas on 15--rather than 17, and just delay the mining by a little, so that the Terran thinks it's a normal 1 gate FE and doesn't try to block the expansion?
in my experience terrans never scout me that early =/ but i guess you could, and maybe only put 2 guys on gas and only go up to 3 after the probe cut? just a thought |
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| Masvidal Korea (South). June 02 2012 15:00. Posts 213 | Profile # |
| I think he only does this version on 4p maps; I have a lot of his replays and study his PvT ste and on 2p maps he tends to use the variation I posted up - gets a Nexus at 24 instead of 17, but when he plops it down his core is already donr and he's on 2 gas and can go Robo ASAP, so its a lot safer. Probably what he uses when he feels the other guy might cheese or isnt familiar with his opponent - it deals witu the 1-1-1 fantastically well. But against gasless FE Terrans, the version the OP explained is far superior, economically speaking. |
| | "Teamliquid is a place for starcraft, not boobs." -autoexec |
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| Xaldarian Netherlands. June 02 2012 15:34. Posts 65 | Profile # |
| Looks awesome, love the idea of a nexus directly being usefull when finished (anti supplyblock). Great guide, will be using this soon |
| | Those who lived in darkness have seen a great light |
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| whistle United States. June 02 2012 23:23. Posts 139 | Profile # |
Do you have any replays of this build facing a 1 rax concussive shell expand with a few pulled scvs? I find it too difficult to defend without getting too far behind economically because if the bunker goes up then the nexus dies...
I watched the BigOne Daybreak replay in hopes of getting some inspiration but his 2nd rax was extremely late, he never had concussive, and finally decided to go up your ramp for absolutely no reason AFTER a bunker was complete. |
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| Cyro United Kingdom. June 02 2012 23:49. Posts 5721 | Profile Blog # |
PartinG rally's his probe from nexus to gate on 14 supply. You cant 13gate without either cutting probes a bit, loosing some chrono, or pulling a probe from minerals, and the gate timing is not super crucial. I like the idea of never pulling probes from minerals, it allows you to benefit a lot more from good stacking, etc.
I believe he also nexus-pylon-scouts, i personally disagree with gate scout, opting for either pylon scout (nexus first, 1gateFE so you can be more greedy or safe/sure) or nexus scout (something like this)Last edit: 2012-06-02 23:54:01 |
| | Defender of Esports # "oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88 # "there really isn’t any actual need to have the minerals and gas constantly displayed" - Blizzard |
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| Abusion United Kingdom. June 03 2012 00:53. Posts 184 | Profile # |
On June 02 2012 23:49 Cyro wrote:
PartinG rally's his probe from nexus to gate on 14 supply. You cant 13gate without either cutting probes a bit, loosing some chrono, or pulling a probe from minerals, and the gate timing is not super crucial. I like the idea of never pulling probes from minerals, it allows you to benefit a lot more from good stacking, etc.
I believe he also nexus-pylon-scouts, i personally disagree with gate scout, opting for either pylon scout (nexus first, 1gateFE so you can be more greedy or safe/sure) or nexus scout (something like this)
you can 13 gate without a probe cut or loss of chrono. |
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| iSHOKZ Germany. June 03 2012 04:19. Posts 121 | Profile # |
On June 02 2012 23:23 whistle wrote:
Do you have any replays of this build facing a 1 rax concussive shell expand with a few pulled scvs? I find it too difficult to defend without getting too far behind economically because if the bunker goes up then the nexus dies...
I watched the BigOne Daybreak replay in hopes of getting some inspiration but his 2nd rax was extremely late, he never had concussive, and finally decided to go up your ramp for absolutely no reason AFTER a bunker was complete.
Yes the replay vs. Noxout is a Concussive Shell Opening, but i missread the opening and also get blocked for a bit. So i did many mistakes there and i think i could hold it with good micro, i trained that with a teammate and i did hold every 2 rax all ins he throw at me besides the 11 11 rax marine scv all in (and other scv all ins) |
| | Caster of twitch.tv/inFluenceTV | GFX Designer |
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| Jaeger United States. June 03 2012 07:39. Posts 533 | Profile # |
On June 02 2012 03:19 iSHOKZ wrote:
C) Buildorder eco comparison
Nexus First(P) > CC First(T) > Parting FE(P) > Gasless FE(T) > 1 Gate FE
is nexus first really > cc first?
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| | http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/656546/Jaeger |
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| iAmJeffReY United States. June 03 2012 08:12. Posts 3387 | Profile # |
On June 03 2012 07:39 Jaeger wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 03:19 iSHOKZ wrote:
C) Buildorder eco comparison
Nexus First(P) > CC First(T) > Parting FE(P) > Gasless FE(T) > 1 Gate FE
is nexus first really > cc first?
I feel so, since 4/5/6 gate pressure can be at my base and constantly hitting faster than 4/5/6 rax follow up of CC first. |
| | iAmJeffReY.267 /// http://www.twitch.tv/iamjeffrey_ |
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| [KGS]Slacker Denmark. June 03 2012 11:51. Posts 75 | Profile # |
On June 02 2012 13:51 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
would it be worth it to get a gas on 15--rather than 17, and just delay the mining by a little, so that the Terran thinks it's a normal 1 gate FE and doesn't try to block the expansion?
I think you might as well. You have the minerals to build it at 15 supply anyway. I'm not sure when the gas finishes in the OPs build, but I guess you can just start mining from the gas after you put down the Nexus or the 2nd pylon? |
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| Jaeger United States. June 03 2012 16:33. Posts 533 | Profile # |
I assume the gas timing works out the same as the original parting build.
Your gas finishes right after you place your nexus and 2nd pylon so you get full 16 workers on mineral efficiency until you're about to place your core. Then you mine with 2 on gas and and the 3rd goes in after it builds the core. |
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