Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Web ChatTeamSpeak 3 (73 users)
Active: 9459 users | |
|
| Asarha France. June 02 2012 04:02. Posts 30 | Profile # |
So,
I have trouble in... 3 match-up now.
Let's explain, I was a platinum terran, and I heard about the "wall between gold and plat player"... but didn't see it. Now I'm a zerg, I can see it. I win almost 99% of my game against gold player, and I loose at least 80% of my game against platinum player. It's just like I can't even play against them. I was even behind in worker against a protoss player Oo.
Against gold, it's like that:
http://terranimba.com/replay/pLIbfpPslRtMUpX
(so absolutely NO difficulty, I could wash my clothes and win)
Against platinum, it's like that
http://terranimba.com/replay/HmrNQlzZbhQMigo
Totally no-match, just lost. Just... just like I couldn't do anything.
If it was just a match-up, I would have said "k, what's the problem here". But it's the three.
If I could see one thing, I would have said "k, let's improve that".
But when I look at the replay, I just feel like... I'm worse in ANY way. Lack of macro, lack of micro, lack of upgrade, lack of units, lack of worker... I mean... what to improve where it seems you've all to improve oO.
Also, I need priorities 'cause I don't see what to do first.Last edit: 2012-06-02 04:06:46 |
| |
|
| Wroshe Netherlands. June 02 2012 04:04. Posts 1019 | Profile # |
| Quick question: do you go on big loss and win streaks? If that's the case then it's likely that your MMR is volatile and it doesn't know yet where to place you. |
|
|
| Asarha France. June 02 2012 04:09. Posts 30 | Profile # |
Yep. And it won't change, 'cause i win 10 game against gold player, then he make me fight platinum, I loose at least 8 game, he made me fight gold player, I win all the game, and then he make me fight platinum... and I loose all again. And... if I discover anything about my game when I'm fighting platinum, it would be fine, but... I'm in ALL way better than gold and in ALL way, worse than platinum...
So... need to know what to do. |
| |
|
 GRCJH Canada. June 02 2012 04:15. Posts 76 | Profile # |
| Why don't you just focus on practicing and stop thinking about what league you're in? Problem solved, no? |
| | you were born too soon, you'll never explore the galaxy |
|
|
| Asarha France. June 02 2012 04:18. Posts 30 | Profile # |
No.
The problem is not my league. If if was the top Gold, I would have said the top gold, that's not the problem.
The problem is just, I can't practicing, 'cause it looks like 50% of my game are just troll games, and 50% are just totally no-match, in wich it seems I have ALL to improve. But it's seriously totally impossible to improve all of your gameplay.
That's why I need t know what to do first... How to do it.
If you see my old thread, when I know what to improve, I'm doing it. But there... it's looks like all need to be better.Last edit: 2012-06-02 04:21:50 |
| |
|
| FabledIntegral United States. June 02 2012 04:23. Posts 8379 | Profile Blog # |
| Well then get better with your macro? You achieved platinum with Terran, it's clearly feasible to do so with Zerg. Inject better? |
|
|
| Asarha France. June 02 2012 04:26. Posts 30 | Profile # |
Just inject would be enough ? Oo
That seems weird.
I mean... Really ? You think that ?Last edit: 2012-06-02 04:26:59 |
| |
|
| golledaman Sweden. June 02 2012 04:30. Posts 24 | Profile # |
| What day9 said was that you pick one thing you really need to work on and really work to improve it. You ignore all other possible and go solve one problem at the time. With that problem gone you go on to the next. |
| |
|
| Wroshe Netherlands. June 02 2012 04:31. Posts 1019 | Profile # |
On June 02 2012 04:26 Asarha wrote:
Just inject would be enough ? Oo
That seems weird.
I mean... Really ? You think that ?
Well at lower levels only two things matter: macro and scouting. The fact that you are struggling in all of your matchups makes me think it's more of a macro problem then a scouting one, you at least should have ZvT scouting nailed down as you have a lot of experience in the matchup. |
|
|
| MugenXBanksy United States. June 02 2012 04:34. Posts 382 | Profile # |
On June 02 2012 04:02 Asarha wrote:So, I have trouble in... 3 match-up now. Let's explain, I was a platinum terran, and I heard about the "wall between gold and plat player"... but didn't see it. Now I'm a zerg, I can see it. I win almost 99% of my game against gold player, and I loose at least 80% of my game against platinum player. It's just like I can't even play against them. I was even behind in worker against a protoss player Oo. Against gold, it's like that: http://terranimba.com/replay/pLIbfpPslRtMUpX(so absolutely NO difficulty, I could wash my clothes and win) Against platinum, it's like that http://terranimba.com/replay/HmrNQlzZbhQMigoTotally no-match, just lost. Just... just like I couldn't do anything. If it was just a match-up, I would have said "k, what's the problem here". But it's the three. If I could see one thing, I would have said "k, let's improve that". But when I look at the replay, I just feel like... I'm worse in ANY way. Lack of macro, lack of micro, lack of upgrade, lack of units, lack of worker... I mean... what to improve where it seems you've all to improve oO. Also, I need priorities 'cause I don't see what to do first.
soo in the gold player replay its not soo much that you smash them its that they don't react to you and isn't a really good example as the protoss did like a really bad like 5gate i felt and then added the robo on as a after thought playing the Mass Roach thing is not a cure all. You won purely on the fact he didn't scout and if your opponents don't do that and are completely obvious to the current trends thats find until some kind of retarded dog shit happens and immortals become really cool for some reason.
The plat player you played, I felt you could have scouted more like losing overlords isn't ideal but you had one outside his main the whole time and could have suicides it and you would have know the stargate was there. And even after seeing the void rays you still just made roaches and lings, he knew what you had but you didn't know anything aside from the void rays and the stalker/sentry ball he had as the robo went down about the same time as the stargate. and you lets the third go uncontested a big no no in p v z if a zerg lets me get a 3 they either not paying attention going for a all-in which i auto lose because i played blind unless i guessed the right reaction al a making archons and blink stalkers to deal with mutas or pumping a couple immortals and having a couple full charged sentries ready to defend the mass roach attack. You could have plopped down a couple of spores at the third and had extra queens.
I would say just scout more and play more re actively. And do people apm spam less in euro cause on America and KR/TW server apm spam much more common.
|
| | we all hope to be like whitera one day |
|
|
| adius United States. June 02 2012 04:38. Posts 234 | Profile # |
It's because you're fighting against gold and platinum players
Fight against hitting pro level timings/benchmarks instead. Right now you're striving to react correctly to specific situations, when you haven't even cultivated the ability to properly execute a reaction |
|
|
| Servius_Fulvius United States. June 02 2012 04:43. Posts 947 | Profile # |
On June 02 2012 04:09 Asarha wrote:
Yep. And it won't change, 'cause i win 10 game against gold player, then he make me fight platinum, I loose at least 8 game, he made me fight gold player, I win all the game, and then he make me fight platinum... and I loose all again. And... if I discover anything about my game when I'm fighting platinum, it would be fine, but... I'm in ALL way better than gold and in ALL way, worse than platinum...
So... need to know what to do.
Same thing happens to me constantly. I was on a 2 day winning streak (about 15 games winning around 10 of them) and then a two day losing streak (5/20 last weekend). I'm high plat, but it seems that I can't beat a diamond person for the life of me. Last week I could, but this week is more of an issue.
I guess the difference between you and me is that I'm trying to get better PERIOD, not trying to achieve a certain league. If that was my goal I would cheese every game.
Here's another way to look at league placement. A high gold is indistinguishable from a mid-plat. A high plat is indistinguishable from a mid diamond. A high diamond is indistinguishable from a low masters. The only real difference is the amount of games you've won to cement your rating to a particular location.
You're being overly dramatic with your perception of skill. There was plenty you did better than the plat toss in the games you posted. Your scouting was great as well as your expand timing. The game against the gold player was a lot more standard than against the plat player and therefore more comfortable. The plat player opened gateway/core/expand. You fell behind because you weren't droning and injecting while scouting. You were scouting less against the gold and didn't make as many missteps.
Your game plan against protoss also doesn't seem to go past the third base mark. The gold toss stupidly attacked into your unit advantage and lost their army while the plat protoss built up a larger, higher tech army before expanding. Your tech was not high enough to deal with the colossus army nor was your macro good enough to have enough roaches to deal with the situation. Lack of scouting missed the void rays and you didn't really see the army until they were at your third.
Work on your transitions, injects, and scouting while building and you will start beating plat tosses. Make sure to benchmark yourself to pro replays, ask question on the zerg help me thread about nonstandard play, and try to get a feel for the early/mid/late game.
Last edit: 2012-06-02 04:47:29 |
|
|
| Haustka United States. June 02 2012 04:52. Posts 219 | Profile # |
play more pls...
as a high tier master player, more I play more I got better at anything. so just hit that find match button and get more games going. then learn how to do some build and etc through teamliquid when u cant beat a certain type against master players |
| |
|
| Asarha France. June 02 2012 04:54. Posts 30 | Profile # |
@MugenXbansky: In fact, I probably could send lots of gold replay.
There's an other one.
http://terranimba.com/replay/JhoqtzStM0G
I just... macro. And win.
"And do people apm spam less in euro cause on America and KR/TW server apm spam much more common. "
I'm not sure i understand the question, but I stopped apm spam at the start of my game after I look some progamer. Yes, indeed, They spam, but when they're fighting, they just do "effective click". So I'm trying to do this.
I guess the difference between you and me is that I'm trying to get better PERIOD, not trying to achieve a certain league. If that was my goal I would cheese every game.
I don't want to achieve a league, or I would'nt switch to zerg. I'm talking about the difference, 'cause it seems obivous to me. When you don't loose against gold, and don't win against platine, it looks like there's something between those two league who's weird.
And, I don't agree with your idea of "high gold = mid plat". 'cause if it was real, I would've win at least 40% of my game against platinum. Or 30%. And I'm high gold (top2 after fighting gold, top 6 after fighting plat)
"Work on your transitions, injects, and scouting while building and you will start beating plat tosses"
Thx, that was exactly THAT, I wanna have while going here. Something to do. |
| |
|
| Ainvar United States. June 02 2012 04:54. Posts 68 | Profile # |
I'm where you are but plat/diamond basically. Playing zerg.
What I find is I generally sit at a plateau for a while then leap up to the next one all at once. You're probably between two of them.
Do you have a solid opening and set of reactions for each matchup? It doesn't really matter too much if you're doing macro or a high aggression two/three base style (6 pool obviously is going to hamper your skill improvement) as long as you've got something that's viable against everything people throw at you and you keep refining it.
I have found, in order of usefulness, work on the following:
- hitting early game benchmarks from pros up to about 5/6 minutes (ie: use an optimized opener)
- injects
- if injects are good, minimize idle larvae unless there's a good reason (ie; saving up for a bunch of something right when the building pops)
- if larvae are spent, minimize resource float by teching, expanding or, making a macro hatch
- ask yourself "do I know what my opponent is doing" every minute or so, and if the answer isn't "moving out to kill me" then make some drones
- have a good balance of econ/army/tech -- generally pick two out of three
- army positioning
- harassment, defending against harassment
- creep spread |
|
|
| Dark.EX United States. June 02 2012 04:55. Posts 1505 | Profile Blog # |
On June 02 2012 04:30 golledaman wrote:
What day9 said was that you pick one thing you really need to work on and really work to improve it. You ignore all other possible and go solve one problem at the time. With that problem gone you go on to the next.
I can testify that this is the way to go. I was doing APM training and it helped me a ton with how much stuff I could do at once, and when I took a break from SC2 after APM training my skill went from mid masters to high diamond. After I did the training, it's around the same because I increased my hand speed and stamina through the training. |
|
|
| Conut Canada. June 02 2012 04:58. Posts 483 | Profile # |
hey dude, i didnt watch your replays, so i cant tell you what to do exactly. However i will tell you a tip on what i do at the end of the game, watch the replay after and once you get to the end of the game pause it and look at your base. check your queen energy, check your creep spread, check your upgrades and check everything that is importent. Look to see what your doing well and what your doing bad, and just do that after every game you play, it keeps all the little things in the back of your head. if i get time today i might take a look at your replays and give you a hand gl in your games ^.^.
User was warned for not watching the replay |
| | http://www.twitch.tv/conut (feel like a scum, but thats my stream lol) |
|
|
| DarkLordOlli Austria. June 02 2012 05:07. Posts 7054 | Profile # |
I've come to think that it's just the game sense being on a higher level in platinum. Like when I got promoted from gold to platinum, I absolutely noticed that my own skill had increased a lot before.
I think gold to plat is when game sense comes into play. Execution of builds in one thing but game sense is what really matters and I think that most people stuck in gold just lack in that department... At least I thought it was what I was lacking in before I got promoted.
Since then I've been watching and analyzing a ton of games and I think my ability to read the flow of the game and make decisions has become really good and even though I get to play like... 10 games a week, I still manage to stay top 8 platinum when I do play, beating diamond players frequently.
The best example for this is a game I played against a gold player recently where I got a really bad build order situation at the start (proxy reaper vs FFE on antiga lol). So I decided to do a two base all in because I got really far behind early. But this guy just kept attacking into me thinking he had done damage and could finish me now. Obviously, I had cannons in place and he kept trading poorly until my attack eventually hit and killed him. The same thing happened in a practice game against a friend of mine who is in platinum and he just did what he was supposed to - sit back and defend to let his early lead kick in.
What I think is really really important is the ability to read and predict army movement and set up favorable engagements, especially in the lower leagues where games tend to be decided by one big battle instead of let's say constant harassment and eventually outmacroing your opponent.
So long story short, I count all these things (decisionmaking, army movement, reading the game, using units in a favorable way) as game sense which I think is the reason why it becomes harder for people the higher they get. Last edit: 2012-06-02 05:08:08 |
| | Made in Japan | Exile on Main Street | Automatic for the People | Who's Next? | The Sufferer and the Witness | Led Zeppelin II | Perfect Strangers |
|
|
| ZERKproject United Kingdom. June 02 2012 05:25. Posts 1 | Profile # |
i haven't watched the replays but i'll give my 2 cents,
i started this season (new to league play) as silver league, at first silver was tough and gold players were unbeatable, i played more, gold became normal and silver players became a joke, i got promoted to gold.
now i'm in gold and at first the gold players were still tough, notably more difficult at the higher end of the division, so i played more, gold players became easy and now i'm getting matched against plats almost constantly (must be raising mmr), rank 2 in my gold league atm and expecting to get promoted almost any game now. the plats DO play better than golds, more solid macro, better compositions and micro.
so you just need to practice more, watch EVERY replay, win or lose. see what you did well at, see what you did badly at.
focus points:
-OVERLORDS.... at our level supply blocks are your number one enemy, and improving your overlord timing can make you play far better almost immediately, each time you make units glance at your supply, ask yourself "will making these units get me close to my maximum?", if the answer is yes then make overlords at the same time so you have supply spare for the next round of larvae. Once you improve you can manage supply more efficiently/effectively but triggering the question to yourself each time you want to make units is an effective technique for newer players.
-injects, hit them as much as possible.
-larvae, are you spending them all?
-resources? too many minerals? throw macro hatches, throw extra bases.
-drone saturation, regularly check each base, are you having enough drones on minerals? aim for at least 2 per patch, if you put drones to gas or for buildings, replace them or you'll under-drone as the game progresses.
-are you teching enough? for example you may do well early on with lings and/or roaches vs a terran, or roaches vs a protoss but as the game progresses you need to progress your units also. don't get stuck in the trap of mass producing the same unit that is losing effectiveness.
-upgrades, keep them pumping to stay competitive and cost effective in fights.
with better macro you will win more games with incorrect compositions or bad micro just by brute force at our level, once you imprint the required macro skills to muscle memory you can then focus on extra factors such as correct scouting, timings, improved micro, etc.
User was warned for not watching the replayLast edit: 2012-06-02 05:30:59 |
|
|
| LA_Morello Brazil. June 02 2012 05:44. Posts 48 | Profile # |
I think you could call a diamond/master friend of you to practice. Not anything very specific, but trying to keep up with the game. Playing custom games with people that are better than you is great, because there's no 'duty' to win, just play your better.
Good luck! |
|
|
| 1 2 3 Next All | |
|
|
|
| |
|
|
