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My own chess variation (Hunter Chess)

Forum Index > Sports & Games
 
 Chilling5pr33   Germany. June 03 2012 12:19. Posts 497
Profile Blog # 
My 300th Post hope you like it.

So i came up with this prertty nice chess variation and i wanted to ask the TL-community what you guys think about it.

So first the basic Rules.

You start only with your king at the normal possition (E1/E8), the rest of the board is empty at the beginning of the match.

Each player has the choice to either move a piece on the field or to bring a new piece into play. (Same as bughouse)

You can only bring pawns into play at the line 2 (white) or 7 (black). (Where they usually are located at the beginning of a game)
All other pieces are only allowed to get into play at line 1 (white) or 8 (black). (The ground line of the player)

To bring new pieces on the board you need to invest points.
At the end of the enemy turn you get 1 point.
When you are "in check" you dont get a point.
You start with 2 points on the side of the board.

Each stone has a different value (standart values)
Pawn = 1
Bishop = 3
Knight = 3
Rook = 5
Queen = 9

You can only get one set of chess pieces into the game. (No 2nd Queen) (No 3rd rook...)
When you reach the other side of the board with a pawn you can get a possible unit into the field. (No 2nd Queen) (No 3rd rook...)

You cant bank more than 15 points. (Just practical reasons)

All other rules stay the same like in the original chess.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So basically i was playing around with the starting points and 2-3 seem to work out pretty well.
everything more than 3 is somehow messed up.
less than 2 is quite boring but workes.

Black is actually at a advantage since he has 3 points at his first move while white has 2 but white can start moving to one of the sides first so he has some benefit as well (defence advantage at the side of the board).

I tried to let the player only bring in units on the position they are usually spawn but rooks got much too strong like this since you can block all spawning easily.

Im aware that a game can take forever like this but its very rare and only happend once to me.

Usually someone says check 3 times and the game is pretty much over from there since the enemy lost 3 points and can only rarely come back from there.

Rooks are super effective in the beginning but still they are no easy win either.

In the beginning you forget to take points quite often but you will get used to it.

You could also say at the beginning of your turn you get 1 point but then white would start with 1 +1 and black with 2 +1.

Check is super strong in this variation since you denie the income for one round so each time you say check you actually denie one additional point.

I used to use chess pieces as point markers but now i usually use poker chips since you sometimes have not the right amount of pawns left to visualise the current point bank.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not having programmed it yet so i have only played it offline but i would love to see some online variation of it since its always fun to play and i believe some of you would enjoy it too. (if you have any easy possibility to create a chess variation on some server please let me know(i usually only play on Thief and there its not possible)).

Hope you like it if you played it with someone please give me some feedback.

Im not sure if i posted this yet, if so im sorry :/

I will update this with an example game as soon as i play another one. (they are usually quite long normal game is around 30 moves)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An example of a opening.
Pretty bad for white but i was just messing around to show you how a game could look like in the beginning.


[image loading]


Well since we dont see the points banked its kinda useless still a match like this could occur.
Actually its the "normal" opening for black to get a rook since black has one extra point and can force white into non rook units to defend.

After that game i remembered that i changed the starting points back to 2 to improve the early game. or else you pretty much always see this kind of opening.
Last edit: 2012-06-03 15:34:05
F-
Old Post

 
 Rybka   United States. June 03 2012 23:51. Posts 468
Profile # 
This is really impressive, thanks for posting!

I think you should totally pitch this idea to the folks at ICC. Maybe they could add it to their gametypes! Seriously, this variant looks like it has a lot of potential.
"Leoric is one of the most heroes around." -Qbek
Old Post

 
 Chilling5pr33   Germany. June 04 2012 09:43. Posts 497
Profile Blog # 
Thanks alot!
I will try my best suggesting it to ICC but after a quick look at the page i havent found a possibility to suggest changes somewhere.
If you know any admins or respected people there i would be really happy if you link this threat to them.
Since i wont get anything out of it anyway (chess is kind of a passion and not about fame or money) so i dont care who gets the credit.
I noticed you need to post something unique to stay alive here so i bring in what i have, and since im a passionated game developer, i would be happy to see some work of me being played all around the world.

For Gaming!
Last edit: 2012-06-04 16:34:45
F-
Old Post

 
 Chilling5pr33   Germany. March 30 2013 23:06. Posts 497
Profile Blog # 
So i wanna deliver some new content and a update.

I played my variatian vs. a International Master of chess and i won a game.
Anyway i think i got a bid of the hang of it
and still most of the people i showing my variation to,
enjoy playing it especially chess veterans seem to like it.

I play mostly vs. a poker buddy of mine and we each win with black and loose with white seem to be quite a big advantage to have a extra stone i might need tweak the game there a bid.

Also i rarely see knights in a game with him this might be becouse of personal preference but they just seem a bid too weak.
It might be becouse the cost of a knight would actually be something like 2.7 and a bishop would be 3.1 or so if the measurement the best comp use is to believe.

Anyway so i play a lot with him lately and i recorded one of the openings i wanna to show and explain you:

I play Black my Buddy is White:

-----------------------Sadly the tool i used to replay my games seem to be broke-------------------------
I will upload asap again with a different tool!

Have Fun playing it if you want
Last edit: 2013-04-08 01:37:27
F-

 
 jcroisdale   United States. March 31 2013 16:36. Posts 1284
Profile Blog # 
Ya white just becomes the new black, you can't really stay on even ground if you have 2 pawns vs a rook. So you have to bank 1 point and get your own rook on your second turn. At least it seems like this would be the optimal play for white.

"I think bringing a toddler to a movie theater is a terrible idea. They are too young to understand what is happening it would be like giving your toddler acid. Bad idea." - Sinensis

 
 Chilling5pr33   Germany. April 07 2013 00:06. Posts 497
Profile Blog # 

On March 31 2013 16:36 jcroisdale wrote:
Ya white just becomes the new black, you can't really stay on even ground if you have 2 pawns vs a rook. So you have to bank 1 point and get your own rook on your second turn. At least it seems like this would be the optimal play for white.




Thanks so much i just observed that problem with a friend myself, my skill just wasnt up high enough.
I knew about the advantage but thought it would be stil ok... but it wasnt until he proved me wrong i accepted the truth.

The rook play isnt the best you can just pressure white into building pawns and then attack with bishops... (more cost efficent) but yes totally had a 2250 elo guy reviewing my game and he found out its check mate for white every game...

So heres my attemp to repair it:
New Cost for Units:
pawn 2
knight 5
bishop 6
rook 10
queen 18

As well as starting points are 4 each.

So what will it do:

Not only will be the advantaged of black will be halved down (wich is perfect)
it will make the check half as efficent. (wich will be quite ok still)
Therefore the game slows down. (I dont like it)
The knight will be more efficent (wich is needed)
Moves on the board will be more importand (wich is needed as well)


So most problems are now gone.
The game now only gets very slow but good players vs bad players have a much better stand now.

So basically 3 problems solved
one change in gameplay
and a smal change, might be a downgrade depending on taste...
Hope people give it a try now.



Last edit: 2013-04-07 01:15:18
F-

 
 Maxyim   April 07 2013 15:09. Posts 332
Profile # 
Interesting variation. I would highly recommend removing the "lose point on check" rule. In standard chess, performing a check is not always the best move, and is sometimes a rather poor one (if your opponent can easily block, or worse, push back your piece). Your variation skews this natural rule by rewarding checks. I do not think that it is necessary. It will also solve the problem with one player getting significantly behind at the beginning if the opponent pursues a "pointless check" strategy against him.

To mitigate the issue with White, simply award points at the beginning of each player's move, not the beginning of the opponent (so White will start with +1). There is no real need to put White at a disadvantage, considering that the first move is completely unimportant.

Also, bishops are worth four points, not three. I think that your initial settings were fine.

One important change to make to your rules is that each player can only have one white square bishop and one black square bishop.

Another suggestion / clarification for this variant that I would make is (1) each piece can only die once; (2) you can spend a point to remove a piece from the board and bring it back into your reserve, but this piece cannot be played for 3 rounds, and you skip your turn along with the ability to play a new piece (but still get your point).

Finally, you need to add a rule to the effect that moving pieces back and forth between the same squares stops giving you points on your third repetition.

Have fun!
Last edit: 2013-04-07 15:17:23

 
 Chilling5pr33   Germany. April 08 2013 00:00. Posts 497
Profile Blog # 

On April 07 2013 15:09 Maxyim wrote:
Interesting variation. I would highly recommend removing the "lose point on check" rule. In standard chess, performing a check is not always the best move, and is sometimes a rather poor one (if your opponent can easily block, or worse, push back your piece). Your variation skews this natural rule by rewarding checks. I do not think that it is necessary. It will also solve the problem with one player getting significantly behind at the beginning if the opponent pursues a "pointless check" strategy against him.

Have fun!


Well i see what you thought process here, i had the intention to make the game more fast and furious with it.
Since there are only very few pieces all game long in most played games i dont see a check mate occuring ever also you have much faster reaction possibilitys since you can always just get new pieces into the game so its nearly impossible to get a check mate since you have to enter enemy terretory in order to get a check / check mate.

Sorry i dont see it still working without this rule.

Removing the check rule will be quite helpfull so white/black (depending on wich one gets the first stone) wont automatically win the game.

The old rules will profit significantly from it but it might be also a auto draw (still better than auto loose).
But for the new rules i see endless games coming since you can always exchange pieces the game can actually take forever and will be only shortend by such thing as the check rule.



On April 07 2013 15:09 Maxyim wrote:

To mitigate the issue with White, simply award points at the beginning of each player's move, not the beginning of the opponent (so White will start with +1). There is no real need to put White at a disadvantage, considering that the first move is completely unimportant.




Nah the first move is worth around 0,2 points in normal chess its around 0,15


On April 07 2013 15:09 Maxyim wrote:


Also, bishops are worth four points, not three. I think that your initial settings were fine.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_piece_relative_value


On April 07 2013 15:09 Maxyim wrote:

One important change to make to your rules is that each player can only have one white square bishop and one black square bishop.

Another suggestion / clarification for this variant that I would make is (1) each piece can only die once; (2) you can spend a point to remove a piece from the board and bring it back into your reserve, but this piece cannot be played for 3 rounds, and you skip your turn along with the ability to play a new piece (but still get your point).

Finally, you need to add a rule to the effect that moving pieces back and forth between the same squares stops giving you points on your third repetition.




My intention was to keep the rules as simple as possible

But interresting suggestion i will chec k them one by one when i have time thanks again for taking the time :D
Last edit: 2013-04-10 07:24:42
F-

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