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 TheYango United States. June 03 2012 22:33. Posts 15749 | Profile # |
On June 03 2012 20:41 JohnnyReverb wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 20:23 Hadley_ wrote:
The game is done for me and most people until they fix Inferno/AH/Itemizing. Inferno is a joke - no fun at all! Itemizing is a joke - legendary-items are USELESS! Plus all these Item/XP Exploits...
They rushed D3 and should have polished and testet it alot more. Thats what happens if you only beta-test Act1 EZPZ-Mode.
LEGENDARIES MEANT TO BE THIS WAY !! my god... cant you folks accept it already ? blizz said id like 2 times, the colour doesnt matter, like it did in d2. GET OVER IT ffs... they nerfed droprate from bosses, to prevent idiotic meph/baal/whatever runs, now you have to search AND EXPLORE THE GAME for the mobs.. because the people wanted it so! the game is like 2 weeks out now. are you supposed to beat inferno ezpz ? NO YOU ARENT !
The problem is that no matter what they change, people are going to look for idiotic runs to do. That's just the way this genre works. So instead of running act bosses, we have people running Treasure Goblins, Resplendent Chests, and Nigel Cutthroat.
On June 03 2012 22:26 turdburgler wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 20:41 JohnnyReverb wrote:
On June 03 2012 20:23 Hadley_ wrote:
The game is done for me and most people until they fix Inferno/AH/Itemizing. Inferno is a joke - no fun at all! Itemizing is a joke - legendary-items are USELESS! Plus all these Item/XP Exploits...
They rushed D3 and should have polished and testet it alot more. Thats what happens if you only beta-test Act1 EZPZ-Mode.
LEGENDARIES MEANT TO BE THIS WAY !! my god... cant you folks accept it already ? blizz said id like 2 times, the colour doesnt matter, like it did in d2. GET OVER IT ffs... they nerfed droprate from bosses, to prevent idiotic meph/baal/whatever runs, now you have to search AND EXPLORE THE GAME for the mobs.. because the people wanted it so! the game is like 2 weeks out now. are you supposed to beat inferno ezpz ? NO YOU ARENT !
just because blizzard said it was intentional doesnt mean it was a good choice.
I think I agree with their design intention for Legendaries. LoD was pretty screwed up in comparison to vanilla D2--overtuned uniques compared to rares, and runewords were far too valuable. I'd say your ideal endgame itemization should be a mix of rares and legendaries--taking legendaries when they have really good stat combinations for you or provide some benefit that's extremely hard/impossible to roll on rares. I don't like the LoD itemization where it was pretty much all uniques/sets/runewords, with a super high-rolled rare once in a blue moon. That takes some of the fun out of seeing someone's really cool gear because it's just the same items everyone else has/wants.
They did achieve this. There are quite a few legendaries that are nigh-impossible to beat for certain classes in various slots. The problem is that this entailed overtuning random properties quite a bit. Since rares only get up to 6 random properties--less than they could have in D2--they have to be extremely strong in order to allow rares to be competitive with legendaries; which means that you get scenarios where well-rolled blues outperform poorly-rolled legendaries because of how high the variance is in item effectiveness from random properties.Last edit: 2012-06-03 22:43:47 |
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| nakam Sweden. June 03 2012 23:04. Posts 207 | Profile # |
On June 03 2012 17:16 udgnim wrote:
my assumption was that RMAH would give Blizzard motivation to go hard against botting, but we'll how things transpire when RMAH is actually released
Are they really losing that much from botting? As long as people buy stuff off RMAH Blizzard still gets their cut whether or not the item was found by a bot. |
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| Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo Germany. June 03 2012 23:10. Posts 2861 | Profile # |
You can prevent duping.
You can prevent some hacks but are helpless against a lot (EVERY developer is for certain kind/genres of games, e.g. denying maphacking in RTSs is not possible with the broadband restrictions in the world).
You can never prevent the majority of bots. Especially not even remotely effective.
It's not possible and that's why games with gear progression and the like will ALWAYS get their economy destroyed by botting. Few games even get so far, that botting is the biggest issue.
Even if the whole game is calculated server side and you can only give input and get back a video stream, even then you can use bots by analyzing the video image, searching for certain pixels colors etc. pp.
Because of that you should not play these games because you hope you can be part of a great economy. You never will be, unless you're interested in an eco full of bots.
"Instanced" games like Counterstrike, Starcraft, DotA etc. pp. are the future. Because in those games bots have no real power. And in some genres it's a lot easier to even make maphack proof games.
Sure, there's something magic about MMORPGs and the likes but in the end, they'll rot as far as eco goes. |
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| Achilles Canada. June 03 2012 23:14. Posts 385 | Profile # |
RMAH will give Blizzard (and potentially the user) authority to take legal action considering it will be actual theft that people give a shit about. Nobody gives a shit about accounts being hacked. Money? It talks.
That or Blizz will get a % cut off of everything the botters/dupers sell and make a fuck tonne and not care xD Pretty good idea really.Last edit: 2012-06-03 23:15:23 |
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| dmfg United Kingdom. June 03 2012 23:56. Posts 566 | Profile # |
On June 03 2012 22:33 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 20:41 JohnnyReverb wrote:
On June 03 2012 20:23 Hadley_ wrote:
The game is done for me and most people until they fix Inferno/AH/Itemizing. Inferno is a joke - no fun at all! Itemizing is a joke - legendary-items are USELESS! Plus all these Item/XP Exploits...
They rushed D3 and should have polished and testet it alot more. Thats what happens if you only beta-test Act1 EZPZ-Mode.
LEGENDARIES MEANT TO BE THIS WAY !! my god... cant you folks accept it already ? blizz said id like 2 times, the colour doesnt matter, like it did in d2. GET OVER IT ffs... they nerfed droprate from bosses, to prevent idiotic meph/baal/whatever runs, now you have to search AND EXPLORE THE GAME for the mobs.. because the people wanted it so! the game is like 2 weeks out now. are you supposed to beat inferno ezpz ? NO YOU ARENT !
The problem is that no matter what they change, people are going to look for idiotic runs to do. That's just the way this genre works. So instead of running act bosses, we have people running Treasure Goblins, Resplendent Chests, and Nigel Cutthroat.
Still, Blizzard are being quite vigilant in nerfing anything that is "too" easy. Soon people will have no choice but to actually play the game. Perish the thought 
Personally I kinda feel that every resplendent chest should be tied to a nearby boss pack, and only unlock after the pack is killed. I'm actually kinda curious why they didn't implement that to begin with. |
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| CobaltBlu United States. June 04 2012 00:32. Posts 434 | Profile Blog # |
On June 03 2012 23:56 dmfg wrote:Still, Blizzard are being quite vigilant in nerfing anything that is "too" easy. Soon people will have no choice but to actually play the game. Perish the thought
It feels like bad game design if Blizz has to nerf everything until they get you to play the game the way they want you to. Clearly the players don't want to play the game that way. |
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| TheYango United States. June 04 2012 00:40. Posts 15749 | Profile # |
On June 04 2012 00:32 CobaltBlu wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 23:56 dmfg wrote:Still, Blizzard are being quite vigilant in nerfing anything that is "too" easy. Soon people will have no choice but to actually play the game. Perish the thought
It feels like bad game design if Blizz has to nerf everything until they get you to play the game the way they want you to. Clearly the players don't want to play the game that way.
I mean, you probably can't generalize that. Certainly, not every player prefers to do Goblin/Resplendent Chest/Aspect runs. A lot of players want to just "play the game". It's just that some DO want to do those runs, and due to the nature of the AH, those players doing that have a direct negative impact on the gameplay experience for those who don't (making it harder for players farming A1 to make money, due to the flood of A3/A4 blues, particularly on weapons, for example). Hence why Blizzard nerfs things--if EVERYONE was OK with those runs, they might leave them as is, but as it stands, I'm sure many people dislike the game heavily because of how much farming those things has screwed up the economy.Last edit: 2012-06-04 00:41:53 |
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| MrTortoise June 04 2012 01:12. Posts 965 | Profile # |
I have foudn 2 legendary items
The first was for a LEVEL TEN monk when i was lvl 40. Needless to say i have kept it as its absolutley fuckign hilarious. An item that is actually crap for a lvl 10 but will only be useful for about 10 mins ....
Then i got a lvl 48 legendary shield ... that was worse than my lvl 30 shield that i dont use.
Now i get the rare/magical vs set/legendary arguments ... and i AGREE in principle ... however I am not looking forward to findingh a legendary item anymore as I KNOW that they wont compete because the items I have are the best roll out of maybe 100 for it wheras a legendary has to be good on its next roll (ie 3rd for me) and with a range of values there is really no chance of it being any good.
Its like they never ran a simultion of likley stats over thousands and hundreds of thousands of iterations. (Which fyi would take about 1 second at most).
BTW farm bots will only harm thoswe with pipe dreams of making money on AH. For everyone else its good for the game. If you dont use rmah like me its no difference. If you do then you get more for less ... its not like gold is hard to get till end of nightmare (not on inferno yet).
Anyway the game hasnt been around for long enough for anyoine to know the value of anything. That and it kees gettign patched.
That and the game encourages doing runs ... path to the oasis anyone?Last edit: 2012-06-04 01:27:12 |
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| dmfg United Kingdom. June 04 2012 01:22. Posts 566 | Profile # |
On June 04 2012 00:32 CobaltBlu wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 03 2012 23:56 dmfg wrote:Still, Blizzard are being quite vigilant in nerfing anything that is "too" easy. Soon people will have no choice but to actually play the game. Perish the thought
It feels like bad game design if Blizz has to nerf everything until they get you to play the game the way they want you to. Clearly the players don't want to play the game that way.
Yes, the presence of exploitable areas/monsters is bad game design, but that's why they're removing them.
Same that if SC2 had a particular BO that guaranteed a win (e.g. by causing a bug that dropped the other player at the 3 minute mark), you can bet that everyone on the ladder would be abusing the fuck out of that bug in order to "farm" wins, despite that not being the intended way to play. And Blizzard would patch it out. |
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| MrTortoise June 04 2012 01:25. Posts 965 | Profile # |
On June 03 2012 23:10 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
You can prevent duping.
You can prevent some hacks but are helpless against a lot (EVERY developer is for certain kind/genres of games, e.g. denying maphacking in RTSs is not possible with the broadband restrictions in the world).
You can never prevent the majority of bots. Especially not even remotely effective.
It's not possible and that's why games with gear progression and the like will ALWAYS get their economy destroyed by botting. Few games even get so far, that botting is the biggest issue.
Even if the whole game is calculated server side and you can only give input and get back a video stream, even then you can use bots by analyzing the video image, searching for certain pixels colors etc. pp.
Because of that you should not play these games because you hope you can be part of a great economy. You never will be, unless you're interested in an eco full of bots.
"Instanced" games like Counterstrike, Starcraft, DotA etc. pp. are the future. Because in those games bots have no real power. And in some genres it's a lot easier to even make maphack proof games.
Sure, there's something magic about MMORPGs and the likes but in the end, they'll rot as far as eco goes.
stopping map hacking is impossible in rts?
Do you have ANY idea what you are talking about? Map hacking in RTS is only possible ... ONLY ... if you give both players info that they shuoldn't have. IE in SC2 map hackign happens because of blizzards design decisions .,. they are 100% responsible for it and it wasn't necessary
That is not a requirement of the game that is shit coding. You want replays? Then make them available from the servers.
Hacks take advantage of information that is available to the game that is not normally available to the player. YOU CAN write that stuff out ... ESPECIALLY with broadband today and with pcs today simply because they are so powerful you do not need to cache as much or preload it.
wall hacking in fps for instance is a direct result of bsp trees. If someone wanted to work from scratch they could write an algorithm that gives much less of an advantage to wall hackers ... the thing is that the maths is hard and to my knowledge they still use carmacs implementation which was copied from a university paper years and years ago and then adapted for 3d games.
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| TheYango United States. June 04 2012 01:32. Posts 15749 | Profile # |
On June 04 2012 01:12 MrTortoise wrote:
BTW farm bots will only harm thoswe with pipe dreams of making money on AH. For everyone else its good for the game. If you dont use rmah like me its no difference. If you do then you get more for less ... its not like gold is hard to get till end of nightmare (not on inferno yet).
Farming things like Aspects has definitely had a negative impact on players entering Inferno. Pretty much any weapon drop from A1 and most of A2 is vendor trash because of how flooded the market is with high-DPS weapons. Other item types are also affected, but to a lesser extent.
A large influx of botted items affects the value of items on the gold AH, which in turn affects the ability of those who are trying to farm legitimately to make the gold necessary to just play the game.
This is exacerbated by HOW MUCH gold you actually need to play the game in Inferno.Last edit: 2012-06-04 01:34:36 |
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| HardlyNever United States. June 04 2012 01:32. Posts 890 | Profile Blog # |
This was known well before the game was out. I made a thread about it months ago, and the general consensus was that there would be a decent amount of botting, with various forms of hacks thrown in.
The current state (at least to me) seems to be about the level it was on an average WoW expansion: it is there, you can see some of it in the economy, but you rarely if ever actually witness the botting/hacking first-hand. That is what I expected coming into it, and I'm not surprised or even disappointed. When you have a release this big with a virtual economy, there is a certain percentage of the player base that is going to try to exploit the game to the fullest for their own benefit. Welcome to humanity and online gaming. If Blizzard could shut this down entirely (which no one has been able to do), they would be billionaires for internet security, not making games. |
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| MaGariShun Austria. June 04 2012 01:42. Posts 281 | Profile # |
Well its not like everyone want to exploit by I have gone over to resplendid chest and goblin farming, just because there is virtually no other way to get gear. If you don't find it yourself (which is extremely unlikely) you have to buy it from the AH. Trust me, I have done countless act 1 butcher runs with 5 neph stacks and you don't get any decent amount of money out of it.
I can farm for 4 hours and maybe make 200-300k
thats not even a tenth of what decent items actually cost |
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| TheYango United States. June 04 2012 01:44. Posts 15749 | Profile # |
On June 04 2012 01:42 MaGariShun wrote:
Well its not like everyone want to exploit by I have gone over to resplendid chest and goblin farming, just because there is virtually no other way to get gear. If you don't find it yourself (which is extremely unlikely) you have to buy it from the AH. Trust me, I have done countless act 1 butcher runs with 5 neph stacks and you don't get any decent amount of money out of it.
I can farm for 4 hours and maybe make 200-300k
thats not even a tenth of what decent items actually cost
That's because of how much item value has plummeted due to the presence of A3/A4 items. The whole reason most Warden/Butcher run items are worthless is because of how flooded we are with better drops from A3/A4 from people aspect/chest/goblin farming.
A1/A2 weapons would actually be worth something if we weren't flooded with A3/A4 blue weapons.Last edit: 2012-06-04 01:46:22 |
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| CobaltBlu United States. June 04 2012 01:50. Posts 434 | Profile Blog # |
| I think it's a major issue that the max level caps off at 60 and the item level extends beyond that. It's impossible for someone to farm the end of Act 1 and find gear good enough to continue on to act 2 inferno or sell on the auction house because i have to compete with gear that is usable at the same level but is far superior from some guy that was farming some purple mob or chest. Currently I stand to make more money farming hell acts for gold and selling magic items I find there in the auction house then trying to gear up from the end of Act 1 inferno. |
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| Iwbhs United States. June 04 2012 01:58. Posts 195 | Profile Blog # |
Truest thing in this thread.
no, that was just them being anti-piracy, Warden is the biggest myth in the gaming industry, people think it's some magical answer to everything but it has never stopped any blizzard game from being botted/hacked, 6years of wow, nearly 10 of d2 and I never lost a single account for more than a 24hour ban.
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| SCPhineas Netherlands. June 04 2012 02:05. Posts 119 | Profile # |
As said before, a lot of the unintended chest/gobo runs did a lot of damage to the economy. I don't like that one bit 
Botting and hacking is not cool, but I feel if the unintended chest/gobo runs weren't there, along with the cheap deathmechanics that made it possible for some people to progress further into inferno than intended, the game would've been a lot more fun, for me at least. |
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| NotSorry United States. June 04 2012 02:12. Posts 5328 | Profile Blog # |
On June 03 2012 23:14 Achilles wrote:
RMAH will give Blizzard (and potentially the user) authority to take legal action considering it will be actual theft that people give a shit about. Nobody gives a shit about accounts being hacked. Money? It talks.
That or Blizz will get a % cut off of everything the botters/dupers sell and make a fuck tonne and not care xD Pretty good idea really.
No it won't bots and hacks would not be considered theft, the item is still just as legit as any found by a player and good luck pressing charges on someone for keylogging your account, as recent law states and IP is not a person and can't be used for identification. |
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| Banishment Germany. June 04 2012 02:15. Posts 46 | Profile # |
Would have been ,would have been. Fact of the matter is that there were a lot of possibilities to obtain some high level Blues and even some yellows by farming chests or some purple mobs in Act3 and act4.
And because this is Diablo and not Starcraft we now got some people with an incredible amount of gold who can easily clear act 3 and act 4 to get even more gold out of it.
And then we have the stupid people in Act1 and act2 Inferno that try to farm to get some decent gear that is hilariously overpriced and can only be afforded by the people that abused some game mechanics from the start.
Just takes the fun out of things to know that youre trying your best to progress and farm some gold while others can make Millions in an hour only because they found out about some exploit before it was nerfed.
In my opinion it would have been better to not nerf this stuff at all, because now we got some incredibly rich people and a majority of people that are fucked.
Feels like Russia after the end of the Soviet Union -.-...... And thats why i hate this game right now. |
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