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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | drolets June 05 2012 04:22. Posts 1 | Profile # |
Before starting... for those of you who don't know, the latest maphacks on the internet block your camera on the last place visited when u are looking at some place u haven't got ANY kind of vision on, so that if people watch the replays they don't find it so evident that you are hacking. Camera block situations should be taken as moments where the camera is COMPLETELY frozen but no action is being made, they are easy to spot because most progamers are constantly moving around with the mouse, and almost never leave their camera at the exact same spot, if they do, it's just for about 1-2 seconds.
So, probably most of you know Spades as a decent terran brood war player, which was caught maphacking some years ago. Well, guess what, he's back! Apparently, he is maphacking on Starcraft II too or that is the sensation I had while watching his showmatch versus LucifroN last night... after asking for the replays and analyzing them there's no doubt. I understand there can be hackers on low levels, but we must stop at any cost people from maphacking at pro/semi-pro levels. This is what I found on the replays... If you don't have enough time for watching all of them, or you don't want, or whatever go directly to the Tal'darim Altar one, it's the most evident one.
Here are the replays: https://rapidshare.com/files/1864122426/LucifroNvsSpades.zip
EVIDENCE:
Overall: His camera gets blocked NUMEROUS times, much more than any non-hacking player. His camera NEVER watches a place he hasn't got vision of, neither for scouting, neither for sending units, neither because of a missclick, he ALWAYS make the exact counter without scouting properly (as he doesn't even scan) and he ALWAYS take the right positions at the right times without having even seen opponents army. Let's get into the games, make sure you put Spades camera on.
Since the camera blocks are always constant and you can see them by yourself i won't point them out unless they are really determining.
Game 1: Antiga Shipyard.
6:15 When he scouted he didn't see any evidence of fast gas, however, before scanning he already starts to build a bay for defending against cloack-banshee.
9:11 9 sec camera block.
9:30 New banshee from LucifroN is leaving his base, he moves his vikings, that had been waiting at the entry of his natural for over 30 sec to cover his main.
10:45 He gets 2 marines to send them to the xel'naga, however, his camera doesn't move to the center of the map, it gets blocked on his army.
11:02 8 sec camera block
The rest of the game is pure action on the middle of the map, always having vision over his opponent, so there's nothing really weird, just a few camera blocks here and there when he loses control over the xel'naga.
Game 2: Entombed Valley
2:14 He sends the SCV without looking at where he's sending it and the camera gets blocked for 4 secs. However, he doesn't even look at LucifroN's base when the SCV reach it.
6:00 Even if he didn't even watch it, on the minimap you can see LucifroN had a gas, he had done the EXACT same openning as on game 1, however Spades doesn't make bay, neither raven, he goes directly for a viking and waste ALL his energy on a mule, as if he knew 100% sure cloack banshees weren't comming (weird as he didn't even scan).
7:47 Notice how he sieges the tanks on the EXACT position for not being shot by the bunker
13:42 LucifroN advances 2 marines to kill Spades marine at the right of the map, would be obvious to think that LucifroN's army is comming behind, however spades doesn't move his army for about 30 sec.
14:10 LucifroN's army is getting out of his base to that spot, Spades doesn't see ANYTHING, but he sieges his tanks right in the elevation and move his marines out of his base and puts them next to the spot LucifroN is going.
20:30 first scan to LucifroN's base in the whole game!! Spots all his army and the third cc.
Game 3: Shakuras Plateau
3:55 He sends out 4 SCVS to his natural, WITHOUT having seen the marine, and WITHOUT having scouted.
5:08 Most accurate scan ever, however, he doesn't even select the barracks to see what building it is, and he doesn't even look at the third cc.
15:05 Would be obvious to think LucifroN has the mid control, but he moves his tanks to the xel'naga without any kind of fear.
16:20 Look how he watches whole LucifroN's army, just in the border of the fog of war.
20:05 He moves all his marines to the spot where LucifroN is going to attack, eventhough he isn't controlling the xel'naga and he doesn't know if he's gonna come that way.
Game 4: Metalopolis
2:50 He selects his SCV and make it go back to his base, however, his camera is blocked on his barracks for about 5 seconds.
6:00 Again, despite not having scouted, he isn't making any kind of cloack-banshee prevention as he did on the first game.
7:20 He starts to move his army towards the position LucifroN's drop is comming without having seen anything, he changes the direction up to 3 times in less than 5 secs as LucifroN moves his medevak.
Game 5: Tal'darim Altar
8:00 He had been making a lot of hellions for some early aggression, but right after LucifroN closes his natural with depots, without seeing it he stops making more, starts making tanks and starts killing his 3rd base rocks.
10:50 Despite having a marine and a Barrack to spot any kind of drop, he doesn't see LucifroN's drop comming, however, he leaves all his hellions on his natural instead of having them around the map which would be the most normal given that you haven't spotted any drop comming. JUST in the moment where the medevaks appear on the minimap (and without having seen them with the camera) he moves his hellions to stop the drop.
12:30 Camera gets blocked on the border of the fog of war.
14:00 Despite having his army on LucifroN's natural, LucifroN manages to sneak through it with his army. Spades doesn't see it, but yet he sieges 2 tanks on his natural and moves a hellion that had been still for over a minute to the xel'naga tower.
16:30 He hides a group of Hellions at the 9 expansion, at 16:44 his camera gets frozen on the border of the fog of war, to spot LucifroN's army comming that way, he tries to hide the hellions better, so that if LucifroN moved to the xel'naga he didn't spot the hellions. He then realises LucifroN's army is gonna come that way for a drop instead of going to the xel'naga and he runs away with all his hellions, miracly avoiding LucifroN's army.
17:00 Despite having seen LucifroN going to a drop through the 9 expansion he leaves ALL his vikings and ALL his tanks on his natural expansion.
18:20 He unsieges ALL his tanks, and starts to move to his third, without having seen LucifroN move to there.
19:00 He rapidly moves again to his natural, right as LucifroN's army is comming.
21:10 He starts to move back all his vikings and a pair of tanks to defend agains the unseen drop of LucifroN comming to his main base (of course, leaving a decent ammount of tanks on his third to defend against the little group of units LucifroN has there, however he completely unprotects his natural expansion, as there are no LucifroN units around.
22:57 Curious 7-sec camera block right before LucifroN's drop came over.
24:30 again, he unsieges all his tanks on the natural and 10 sec after that he selects all his army, to start moving to his third RIGHT in the exact moment where LucifroN come in.
25:15 He unsieges all the tanks on his main base leaving it unprotected to any kind of drop and moves all of them to his natural, right where LucifroN is comming with all his army.
25:35 After seeing all the tanks there LucifroN moves back and start to walk to Spades third entry. Spades decides to unsiege 5-6 tanks and send them to his third without having seen anything again.
29:35 LucifroN is comming for Spades third, again, he hasn't seen anything. 5 seconds after that LucifroN lift half of his units into 2 medevaks, then Spades select all his vikings and moves forward to try to kill the unseen medevaks.
30:40 He unsieges ALL the tanks in the main despite LucifroN having been dropping there for a while and moves them all to his natural,right where LucifroN is comming.
31:10 he scans the xel'naga right in time to see LucifroN's army moving to 9-expansion (probably in order to drop). However LucifroN is just tricking him, and moves back to the xel'naga once the scan is over. Spades doesn't unsiege ANY tank to try to prevent a drop in the main and just keeps them all on his natural.
32:15 he scans his thirdbase entry to spot ALL LucifroN's army, he hadn't previously scanned there at any other point on the game.
32:50 he moves with ALL his army to his main base, where a BIG drop is going to come, and without having seen anything.
Game 6: Daybreak
4:30 He puts his third command center right in position, without even knowing if LucifroN was going for 2 fast cc too (otherways it would've been a suicide).
15:45 He moves around trying to defend the entry where LucifroN may come in, then LucifroN decides to leave and he goes after him.
From here on, he has whole map control so nothing really matters, eventhough there are a few more camera blocks here and there.
Game 7: Shattered Temple
6:00 Remember game 2 and 4? Spades went for a viking to prevent uncloacked banshees or drop. This time, however, he makes raven-viking without having scanned and thus, not (supposedly) knowing LucifroN is going cloack banshee.
7:20 He moves his marines and his raven to the location where LucifroN's banshee is going (He doesn't even know LucifroN is going banshees).
14:30 He goes to his natural entry with almost all his army to get a good position to fight against LucifroN forces (which he hasn't seen yet).
16:55 Instead of leaving some tanks on his main, fearing another attack from LucifroN on that spot he sends all of his army next to the golden, right where LucifroN is going, and suddently unsieges to reposition his tanks when LucifroN is moving.
That's all, I think it is more than obvious that he is hacking, specially considering he was already caught hacking on broodwar... whatever, you guys judge, it's our duty to make this game as clean as possible.
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| ch33psh33p June 05 2012 04:24. Posts 2585 | Profile Blog # |
| Damn you did your research. |
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| Funguuuuu United States. June 05 2012 04:25. Posts 198 | Profile # | |
| | The night is dark and full of Terrans |  |
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| Pwnzer United States. June 05 2012 04:26. Posts 499 | Profile # |
| Sigh, I can't believe it's getting this bad. These posts seem to be popping up more and more. |
| | Herp Derp |  |
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| zezamer Finland. June 05 2012 04:26. Posts 1805 | Profile # |
| Is the replay pack file safe ? Last edit: 2012-06-05 04:26:32 |
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| Msr Korea (South). June 05 2012 04:26. Posts 355 | Profile # |
| I have been saying he has hacked the whole time, assuming your stuff is accurate good to see. No reason people even let former hackers play in any tournament. |
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| Oreo7 United States. June 05 2012 04:27. Posts 1607 | Profile Blog # | |
| | Stork - HerO - Ryung - Huk - MMA - sGredfive on bnet. Wittgenstein brain? | |
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| Deadstrider Netherlands. June 05 2012 04:27. Posts 255 | Profile # |
| You certainly did your work, if this shit is true, fuck spades. |
| | HerO|HuK|PartinG|Ret|Grubby|SaSe// Gogo Startale!~// snOrMoL.863 |  |
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| RMP United Kingdom. June 05 2012 04:27. Posts 116 | Profile Blog # |
| Well that seems rather conclusive. Will check up on it later. The one dubious thing is poster has one post -- but if the evidence is true that shouldn't be a determining factor at all ^^. Last edit: 2012-06-05 04:29:23 |
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| ExCeLLos United States. June 05 2012 04:28. Posts 17 | Profile # |
Wow I never knew he would hack at professional level.
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| Holytornados United States. June 05 2012 04:29. Posts 623 | Profile # |
This is sad. At the pro level this needs to be stomped out whenever it crops up.
Impressive research. Any particular reason you went so in depth with it? |
| | I need your love like a boy needs his mother's side. | |
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| Krallman Sweden. June 05 2012 04:29. Posts 653 | Profile # | |
| | Im better than Stefan | |
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| Fade1 Sweden. June 05 2012 04:29. Posts 139 | Profile Blog # |
| Disgusting to cheat in showmatches. If this is true I hope he gets banned from the proscene. |
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| AcrossFiveJulys United States. June 05 2012 04:29. Posts 3593 | Profile Blog # |
| Wow, that's interesting. I actually played Spades in the finals of some tournament early release and was baffled that he always had exactly the right counter prepared for all of my builds even though they were unorthodox. This doesn't surprise me at all. |
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| AxelTVx Canada. June 05 2012 04:30. Posts 898 | Profile # |
| Wow.. Seriously? Cheating in a showmatch? |
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| Gardel Mexico. June 05 2012 04:30. Posts 215 | Profile # |
| Wow, I lost all my respect to Spades ... |
| | "And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." Abraham Lincoln. |
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| darthfoley United States. June 05 2012 04:30. Posts 2232 | Profile Blog # |
| Hmm, interested in seeing how the community takes this. I wont support one side or the other for now. |
| | "It's not trying to be perfect; it's being yourself."-Liquid'NonY |  |
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| YouthSC United Kingdom. June 05 2012 04:30. Posts 253 | Profile Blog # |
really funny that lucifron won even with spades hacking. grats!
Thank you for the research, will watch the replays.
/e: After watching the replays, I must say that I don't think Spades is hacking.
All the moves he did had a reason. Eg. In tal'darim, 25:15, when he moved the tanks from his main to the natural, he had seen 2 madivacs with his missile turret going down through the xel'naga. Moving the vikings to the main a bit before that to defend the unseen drop was a response to LucifroN's scan over his army, that obviously said LucifroN was checking for where his army was to drop elsewhere.
I think you've overlooked strategical assumptions in your analysis. Please reconsider.
/e2: The min.33 drop is REALLY lucky or plain hacking though... I'm confused 
Maybe he IS hacking after all and I just don't want him to be...Last edit: 2012-06-05 04:55:42 |
| | The more I practice, the luckier I get! |  |
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| Jiver Canada. June 05 2012 04:31. Posts 46 | Profile # |
| Made a post on the showmatch about this. |
| | My spoon is too big! | |
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| Sleed Canada. June 05 2012 04:31. Posts 180 | Profile # |
| Good investigation if it reveals to be true |
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