07:06 KST - method linked
here has been disproved
here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic
here.08:47 KST -
Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.
Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.
(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit
here)
| Mohdoo United States. June 05 2012 12:20. Posts 3946 | Profile # |
| And Mirhi comes in with the death blow. |
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| GreyKnight United States. June 05 2012 12:20. Posts 4322 | Profile # |
On June 05 2012 12:19 Psychonian wrote:
....Guys? What would we do if it turned out there was a liquid' maphacker? I know it sounds horrible but....what would we do?
who knows nowadays! |
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| Jono7272 Australia. June 05 2012 12:20. Posts 3652 | Profile # |
On June 05 2012 12:19 Ktk wrote:
Camera key to rally, a-move army via minimap. It's not that complicated.
And camera locking to random places? Are you kidding me? Do we know if he uses location hotkeys?
Yeah, position siege tank armies in TvT via minimap, super standard good play. Are you serious? |
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| Integra Sweden. June 05 2012 12:20. Posts 4927 | Profile Blog # |
| I'm done with this, It's obvious that Spades hacks. up to the online tournaments if they want him to play since we will never see him in a offline tournament. Good night people. |
| | "Dark Pleasure" |  |
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| meeple Canada. June 05 2012 12:20. Posts 10207 | Profile Blog # |
| mmm if we know the style of maphacks that cause this... why doesn't someone load it up and recreate some of the fishy stuff? Can anyone actually confirm that this weird stuff is the result of a maphack? |
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| Martijn Netherlands. June 05 2012 12:21. Posts 1098 | Profile Blog # |
Just so we're clear on something. The only ones that have any right to judge Spades here is the WesternWolves. It was our showmatch and he's our player. We're his sponsor, we're the admins
I got a serious headache watching people try to market this whole mess for viewers clearly looking to make Spades look bad.
So for the record, WW hosted the showmatch, Spades is on the WW team, WW is looking into these accusations, WW will consult experts and WW will release a statement after a conclusion has been drawn.
Oh and as a bonus, WW would love to know who actually posted this disaster in the first place. |
| | http://www.glhf.tv fighting! WesternWolves & LowLandLions progaming teams. |
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| phanto Sweden. June 05 2012 12:21. Posts 680 | Profile # |
On June 05 2012 12:15 Nimic wrote:
This is all very inconclusive
But it's not.
Adding everything up the evidence is quite overwhelming. |
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| yawnoC United States. June 05 2012 12:21. Posts 2517 | Profile # |
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
Why do I not feel shocked at all by this?
On June 05 2012 12:21 Martijn wrote:
Just so we're clear on something. The only ones that have any right to judge Spades here is the WesternWolves. It was our showmatch and he's our player. We're his sponsor, we're the admins
I got a serious headache watching people try to market this whole mess for viewers clearly looking to make Spades look bad.
So for the record, WW hosted the showmatch, Spades is on the WW team, WW is looking into these accusations, WW will consult experts and WW will release a statement after a conclusion has been drawn.
Oh and as a bonus, WW would love to know who actually posted this disaster in the first place.
I really hope TL does post who the "OP" actually is.Last edit: 2012-06-05 12:22:48 |
| | GG | |
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| -Kaiser- Canada. June 05 2012 12:21. Posts 485 | Profile Blog # |
On June 05 2012 12:19 Psychonian wrote:
....Guys? What would we do if it turned out there was a liquid' maphacker? I know it sounds horrible but....what would we do?
Oust them and demand accountability. |
| | "Perhaps love is the process of my gently leading you back to yourself." |
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| teamsolid Canada. June 05 2012 12:21. Posts 3618 | Profile # |
On June 05 2012 12:19 Psychonian wrote:
....Guys? What would we do if it turned out there was a liquid' maphacker? I know it sounds horrible but....what would we do?
You do realize Hayder was a former maphacker right?
Cheating is really much more common than you'd think. |
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| sPitcraZy United States. June 05 2012 12:21. Posts 24 | Profile # |
| OK, someone send me 50 of your last games played so that I can have a group of my friends investigate them for hacks with BIAS perspectives and try to find "conclusive" evidence with 90% assumptions. |
| | Taeyeon + Tiffany + Jiyeon + Eunjung + Nicole + Hara + Hyuna + IU + Yoo Inna |
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| Crowned United States. June 05 2012 12:21. Posts 365 | Profile # |
| The truth will be shown when we see a ladder game where he isn't hacking. Let's see if he plays more cautious, looks more into fog of war, or if he just looks at a random location while he macros. |
| | It's cool to love to win, but it's better to hate to lose. | |
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| iokke United States. June 05 2012 12:22. Posts 693 | Profile Blog # |
On June 05 2012 12:18 KalWarkov wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:15 cArn- wrote:
This is getting really pathetic, you can point out things that look suspicious very easily for any good player.. I'm baffled as to how this thread is stilll going and those so called "analysis" are taken seriously.
So fucking disgusting
woot? i thought you have understanding of this game. antiga vs theognis was perfect movement always, attacking into an army u dont see with camera locked on reinforcements? wtf?
you know when you take a pool of a bunch of games, and ignore all the fuckups, you will find games with "perfect movement" movements and strange decisions.
On the other hand, I am unable to hear the stream, can only watch it, so I am not completely informed on what is going on there. I am pretty informed on the bias though considering the posts here |
| | Crop circles are Chuck Norris' way of telling the world that sometimes corn needs to lie the f*** down. rerereredit.. I never get it right the 1st time |
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| -stOpSKY- Canada. June 05 2012 12:22. Posts 481 | Profile # |
| Looking at some of the stuff on CatZ stream with the analysis it makes it look very sketchy. Obviously without 100% evidence the community as a whole shouldn't be ruining someones career over a "possible" use of maphacks though. I hope people remember that before bringing out the pitchforks... but it looks questionable to say the least. |
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| itsjuspeter United States. June 05 2012 12:22. Posts 657 | Profile # |
| The fact that Spades NEVER has a full fog of war screen to move units is the nail in the coffin, i mean you're gonna tell me he plays 100% from the minimap? |
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| ronpaul012 United States. June 05 2012 12:22. Posts 755 | Profile # |
On June 05 2012 12:19 Psychonian wrote:
....Guys? What would we do if it turned out there was a liquid' maphacker? I know it sounds horrible but....what would we do?
we'd raise the pitchforks and not support them anymore. |
| | I'm a gooner. | |
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| Acceso Peru. June 05 2012 12:22. Posts 4 | Profile # |
On June 05 2012 12:20 whiterabbit wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
I don't know what to make out of this... but... this is amazing post.
Ok, then... Spades is a cheater anyway. |
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| Kopo Canada. June 05 2012 12:22. Posts 45 | Profile # |
I, for one, agree with the idea of innocent until proven guilty. This stream analysis is working under the assumption that he is hacking, and is therefore bias in that direction.
Sorry Spades, but even though there is no way to tell 100% if you were hacking or not you have been crucified in front of 5k+ live viewers on stream. I completely disagree with this process. I understand that hacking is horrible in a competitive gaming scene, but attempting to persecute you in this manner in fucking despicable. |
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 Spades United States. June 05 2012 12:22. Posts 249 | Profile # |
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
Lol really, it was Artist, when did this ever happen. If anything people in the house would randomly say something during a game they were watching. I never had 2 monitors open and stream cheat or anything. Why would you say something stupid like that. So stupid. |
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| SniXSniPe United States. June 05 2012 12:22. Posts 1448 | Profile Blog # |
On June 05 2012 12:15 cArn- wrote:
This is getting really pathetic, you can point out things that look suspicious very easily for any good player.. I'm baffled as to how this thread is stilll going and those so called "analysis" are taken seriously.
So fucking disgusting
And it looks like they were right.
On June 05 2012 12:13 Mirhi wrote:
Well, while it's bad form to throw someone under the bus, I'm just going to do it because all this came out and I have a fact that actually matters.
Spades stream cheated during showmatches that he played while he lived with me at what was the Reign house. It's a carry over from the stream cheating that many Koreans do in the Korean prohouses (Both Spades and Artist have confirmed with me that Koreans frequently stream cheat in team leagues and showmatches against foreigners out of pride).
If ever I saw it happen when I was in the house, I would immediately try to stop them, but I know on occasion it still occured, most notably in a match Spades played against Gatored last year.
About maphacking, I have no idea and have no opinion on the matter other than either option wouldn't surprise me.
I would want to say though, that cheating occurs way more than people realize, and I actually would not be so hard on him for this evidence, even if it is true. Players better than Spades actively cheat, particularly stream cheat or simply ghosting, because of how easy it is.
Example - Leenock was over a player's shoulder at MLG Providence helping them during a game, giving them hints in Korean.
It's pretty common.
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