| aLmosTeu Germany. June 06 2012 03:09. Posts 98 | Profile # |
Hello everybody,
Platinum player here, since i played alot 3 gate robo in PvP i wanted to go for something new, for example the 2 gate stargate build. I played alot of games with it and in just every game it failed, whenever i just try to harass with them or try to make a push with 4 phoenix, i got completly crashed. could you please help me? im totally depressed of how often i loose, even to gold Players.. i really dont know what i did wrong.
http://www63.zippyshare.com/v/94631944/file.html
i think i should've just added more stalkers instead of zealots, but im not sure :/ please dont be rude :/
hope to get answers
Tommyyy (aLmosT) |
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| FreedomMurder Canada. June 06 2012 03:47. Posts 137 | Profile # |
Well there are a few different styles that you can use phoenix for.
1. 4 gateways and 2-4 pheonix. Fly in pick off sentries and other key units with pheonix while pressuring the ramp with gateway force. Keep picking off sentries until they cant FF anymore.
2. Harassment style. Stargate after 2 gate ways. 3 stalker rush if you are suspicious of 4gate. If not zealot->stalker-> sentry. You must go with your 2nd pheonix to scout because you don't want an autolose to DT. If blink stalkers add Robo more sentry zealot stalker and don't expand until you know you held off his aggression. If robo, expand then get robo yourself. Constantly harass with pheonix but if you think he is pushing you off 1 base and you have 2 bases dont waste your energy on probes you need the lifts to live.
Hope this helps. Personally on maps with abusable cliffs i go blink obs every game because it isnt a build order loss to anything. On maps without abusable cliffs i go speedprism immortal into collosus all in or pheonix expansion builds. Last edit: 2012-06-06 03:47:52 |
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| moskonia Israel. June 06 2012 03:47. Posts 928 | Profile # | |
| | "He who learns to walk, should never crawl again" | |
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| Cipher1250 United Kingdom. June 06 2012 04:01. Posts 5 | Profile # |
| Stargate builds are the most difficult to pull off in PvP imo, They require high apm and the correct follow up based on scouting....going strait to double stargate seems highly risky too me as you auto loss to alot of things, dt's foe example. I would suggest staying with the good old 3 gate robo till you get past plat. |
| | When behind.... DARK SHRINE |
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| aLmosTeu Germany. June 06 2012 05:15. Posts 98 | Profile # |
okay thanks alot to everybody for helping and thanks alot for not beeing rude  i'll try to improve!
but i dont want to stay with the good old 3 gate robo, cause then in PvP im only able to do 1 build (expect 4 gate but that doenst count 4 me xD) and in for example PvZ i can do like 5 .. so i want to be abit more flexible, if you know that i mean :D dont play the same all the time :DLast edit: 2012-06-06 05:16:22 |
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| FreedomMurder Canada. June 06 2012 06:44. Posts 137 | Profile # |
You should really try Blink + Obs in my opinion. its extremely flexible.
Vs. an expanding robo player you have 2 options.
1. Add a 4th gateway and all in him, making sure to focus down immortals whenever possible.
2. Throw down a nexus and harass him with blink stalkers (don't make more than 12ish stalkers) get an immortal or two and tech to collosus.
vs. Stargate - Go kill him cause you can probably just win the game.
vs. Collosus all in - Expand quickly while constantly threatening to blink into his main when he wants to push you. You can delay him enough to get an adequate defence, probably a few immortals and a lot of stalker zealot. try to set up a flank or engage him in the open or you might lose.
vs. Another blink obs player - Just micro efficiently and don't expand. In this scenario the 1st person to expand is likely to lose. Only expand if you gain some key advantage like you kill some stalkers or you snipe some buildings. Last edit: 2012-06-06 06:46:22 |
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| StaraCroft Austria. June 06 2012 08:41. Posts 165 | Profile # |
I pretty much only go stargate pvp. If you're on EU, you can add me: StaraCroft 423
and I can show you. You have to play pretty reactive, but I think it can deal with anything. It's especially good if the other guy thinks that blink counters it.
In your replay he went 1gate robo expand. That's one of the harder builds to play against if they are smart. He wasn't smart, you just botched it 
your macro is generally bad, you should add 2 more gates while moving out. You should harass probes a little more, and see if you can pick off sentries that are out of position.
You should build stalkers instead of zealots. Or sentry/zealot is also fine, maybe better. In any case, spend your gas!
In the fight the highest priority are the sentries: get all of them first. Second priority zealots and then you pick up the immortals to take them out of the fight. With armor and guardian shield, phoenix barely tickle immortals, but 4 or 5 one-shot a sentry and 2-shot a zealot.
Conveniently my last game of today was very similar to yours
http://drop.sc/192193
After scouting 3rd chrono on warpgate, I went 3 stalker/sentry until I felt safe, you can cut corners if you want.
I'm pretty sure it's 1gate robo expo after my first poke, so I don't send my phoenix to scout his natural first... maybe I should. Since I know nothing good is coming from going macro from there, I all-in him like a scrub.
I don't think stargate builds are very solid because they rely on your opponent to make mistakes. However, facing diamonds and masters I see maybe one in 10 deal with it intelligently, so I still do it, and I will continue to try to make it work just because it's so much more fun than robo builds imo.
Unfortunately if they expo then all-inning is usually the more profitable choice. If they turtle, you can expo and do whatever.Last edit: 2012-06-06 19:22:05 |
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| Geiko France. June 06 2012 10:05. Posts 1600 | Profile Blog # |
This guy gives great advice.
On another note, you don't seem to have a game plan, you cut probes at 23 for some reason, so I expect an allin, but then you don't add anymore gates and you stop making phoenixes. Then you wait for a while and decide to expand and commit to your attack at the same time.
Main ideas :
-get 26 probes
-decide wether you want to pressure or all-in. If all-in , then get 4 gates, else if pressure fake attack at front and go kill probes with phoenixes.
-Why on earth would you lift immortals when he has 5 free sentries and you have only zealots.
Zealots are fine, but you shouldn't have that much gas. Get a robo or make more phoenixes.
-go read my guide.
Last edit: 2012-06-06 10:07:42 |
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| StaraCroft Austria. June 06 2012 19:30. Posts 165 | Profile # |
Oh that's a nice guide!
If I only had found that a year ago
The only thing I find really pecuilar is that he puts immortals at the highest priority for lift. Phoenix do 5 damage. Immortal has 1 base armor and guardian shield adds 2, reducing incoming damage to 2(x2) or 3.6dps.
But more importantly you want to get rid of forcefields and guardian shield asap imho.Last edit: 2012-06-06 19:37:10 |
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| Geiko France. June 06 2012 19:57. Posts 1600 | Profile Blog # |
On June 06 2012 19:30 StaraCroft wrote:Oh that's a nice guide! If I only had found that a year ago The only thing I find really pecuilar is that he puts immortals at the highest priority for lift. Phoenix do 5 damage. Immortal has 1 base armor and guardian shield adds 2, reducing incoming damage to 2(x2) or 3.6dps. But more importantly you want to get rid of forcefields and guardian shield asap imho.
That's a mistake.
It's actually pretty situational but you should generally be killing sentries first. |
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| ToSSStarS United States. June 06 2012 19:59. Posts 5 | Profile # |
^^^ In PvP I usually want to kill off sentries/immotals/stalkers/zealots in that order, due to the costing of units.
Losing even 2-3 sentries in the early mid-game can be the difference between a win and a loss later on. |
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| Geiko France. June 06 2012 20:00. Posts 1600 | Profile Blog # |
On June 06 2012 19:59 ToSSStarS wrote:
^^^ In PvP I usually want to kill off sentries/immotals/stalkers/zealots in that order, due to the costing of units.
Losing even 2-3 sentries in the early mid-game can be the difference between a win and a loss later on.
Zealots before Stalkers, but other than that, yes. |
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| aLmosTeu Germany. June 07 2012 21:06. Posts 98 | Profile # |
| thanks everybody, i'll try! |
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| meadbert United States. June 07 2012 23:35. Posts 513 | Profile Blog # |
On June 06 2012 19:30 StaraCroft wrote:Oh that's a nice guide! If I only had found that a year ago The only thing I find really pecuilar is that he puts immortals at the highest priority for lift. Phoenix do 5 damage. Immortal has 1 base armor and guardian shield adds 2, reducing incoming damage to 2(x2) or 3.6dps. But more importantly you want to get rid of forcefields and guardian shield asap imho.
The reason for picking up Immortals is not to kill them as much as it is to reduce their DPS to zero for a while to keep your Stalkers and Sentries alive longer. |
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| Cloudshade June 11 2012 03:37. Posts 88 | Profile # |
your title is terrible and already setting yourself up for a self fulfilling prophecy I would help but when I saw that title I just didn't feel like bothering anymore
User was warned for this post |
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| aLmosTeu Germany. June 11 2012 05:28. Posts 98 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 03:37 Cloudshade wrote:
your title is terrible and already setting yourself up for a self fulfilling prophecy I would help but when I saw that title I just didn't feel like bothering anymore
tbh i dont care, i got help from helpful ppl's, go whine about title's etc somewhere else please, thanks. |
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| ChEDo Canada. June 11 2012 06:00. Posts 158 | Profile # |
2 gate SG is bad, its always better to go 1 Gate SG unless you know a 4 gate is coming, or some big gate pressure.
After getting 4-5 pheonix, I drop an expansion with a robo, then I get immortals, stalker and TC, eventually usual colo etc etc.
-Make sure you keep harrassing and make him mad.
-Sometimes you can expo with only 1 gate 1 SG, 2-3 gate is fine until you get your probe up.
Immortals and Stalkers(with blink) with good ffs and micro can hold almost everything, 1 base colo dies to pheonix since he wont have much gas to support colo and stalkers |
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