| Ace United States. June 07 2012 15:07. Posts 13549 | Profile Blog # |
| Do it more often. It works out so much better for the Town when everyone sees the "DO NOT CROSS THIS LINE!" flashing sign. k? |
| | No sir I fully get it, however unless I can unlaunch my nuke there is not much we can do about it. I also wasn't posting as much because I didn't fully read the rules yet LOL! - RebirthofLegend in WaW Mafia |
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| Probulous Australia. June 07 2012 15:11. Posts 3784 | Profile Blog # |
| Is there anything in particular that sparked this outrage? Last edit: 2012-06-07 15:11:38 |
| | "Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut |
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| Ace United States. June 07 2012 15:15. Posts 13549 | Profile Blog # |
| no outrage and nothing in particular |
| | No sir I fully get it, however unless I can unlaunch my nuke there is not much we can do about it. I also wasn't posting as much because I didn't fully read the rules yet LOL! - RebirthofLegend in WaW Mafia |
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| Probulous Australia. June 07 2012 15:20. Posts 3784 | Profile Blog # |
Any particular policy?
I am all for policy lynching VE just for the fun of it. I always thought that policy lynching was just an excuse not to participate in analysis. It is easy to contribute when all you have to do is pick a lurker and lynch them. |
| | "Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut |
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| Mordanis United States. June 07 2012 15:41. Posts 716 | Profile Blog # |
I mentioned this in NMM XIV, and I was scum, but I mean what I said regardless of role. I think that you need to at least say that if someone has posted next to no content they need to be lynched. Town in that game basically said "lurkers are suspicious, but go with analysis first", which means that if you only have a tiny amount of analysis posted for a cycle, you might as well stay away because posting is only going to get you attention and potentially get you lynched. On the other hand, with strong policy in effect, you can very quickly kill all discussion as everyone just sort of agrees to go with policy or points out the idiocy of lynching someone based on a lack of posting. Nothing useful comes from this, because the whether the lurker's (or w/e else) orientation wasn't a driving factor in the voting except for the scum. It kills discussion if its predetermined then. But if there is no anti-lurking policy (/anti anything policy), you encourage lurking (or whatever else). Basically it creates an incentive to stay away from the game in several circumstances, which is a pretty nice cushion for scum. I think it needs to be used at the last minute then, maybe bring it up 4 hours or so before deadline, so that minimal time is wasted arguing policy and more is spent hunting scum. I'm interested to see the discussion on this though.+ Show Spoiler +I must say its very refreshing to talk about mafia in 2nd person, rather than in continuous 1st person.
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| | I love the smell of napalm in the morning... it smells like... victory. -_^ Favorite SC2 match ->Liquid`HerO vs. SlayerS CranK g.1 @MLG Summer Championship |
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| gonzaw Uruguay. June 07 2012 15:42. Posts 3087 | Profile # |
The thing is that when policy lynches haven't been enforced yet in previous games, starting to enforce them in a specific game creates a shitstorm and would most likely murder that game.
Imagine that a certain game starts, and everybody decides to policy lynch lurkers.
So you lynch your 1st lurker on D1. He would be most likely town, but no worries, you think everybody else will stop lurking by now and we solve the problem right?
Wrong, players that lurked until then will keep lurking (or being inactive for stuff from real life), and you'll keep policy lynching them throughout the game, most likely earning scum a win and making the game boring as hell.
Yes, if many games enforced a "lurkers" policy lynch, then the more time goes on the larger the probability of there being fewer and fewer lurkers in games. However that comes with the cost of maybe making each game it's implemented a total chaos, and those (specially town) that play those games want to win them, and they know that by just policy lynching lurkers that isn't achieved so there's less incentive to enforce them.
That was the "Lynch lurkers" policy, if you do the "Lynch blue claims" policy you'll do the same thing since blue claims will still start showing up (hi VE!) and you'll still end up lynching them and them flipping blue, again making the games more boring and shittier for town (or for scum if they wanted to make an epic play or something).
It's like being fat and starting to diet and exercise. You know it's good in the long run, but as soon as you start it you hate it because it ruins everything to you in the present and makes things uncomfortable.
So, is TL Mafia willing to drop weight or not? Maybe someone can spare a liposuction so we avoid this altogether >_>.
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| Probulous Australia. June 07 2012 15:45. Posts 3784 | Profile Blog # |
I also think that sometimes people sign up expecting to be able to play. When in reality the time they have available is less than they expected. So you don't get lurkers, you get people popping into the thread profusely apologising for their lack of effort.
I guess the question becomes, how often are games determined by people who would have been lynched if a policy was in place? If it doesn't happen often, it isn't a problem. |
| | "Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut |
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| wherebugsgo United States. June 07 2012 16:07. Posts 7938 | Profile Blog # |
I have never heard of a "lynch blue claims" policy because it sounds absurdly retarded and it probably is.
A lynch bad claim policy is great though. IMO when you claim for any reason other than to save town from a mislynch then you're not claiming correctly. That means if you're blue and you claim in order to get your agenda passed (like VE's blue claim from MTG) I would kill you instantly if I had a gun. Why? Because that type of claim is completely indistinguishable regardless of alignment, which makes it excellent for scumplay. That's why I employed my jailkeeper claim in Mini X. It's completely indistinguishable as scum or town play but it fools the jubjubs because they're afraid of the repercussions of being wrong. That's fulfillment of individual agenda, which ultimately benefits scum far more than town.
This leads into the next point: whenever anyone takes some sort of play that is literally indistinguishable from either alignment perspective (i.e. breadcrumbing your role) and then tries to say it only works from a town perspective, I want to kill them. Why? Because they're lying (or at the very least being misleading). The sad part is that townies have been doing this for the past several months (again, VE comes to mind, though he's not the only one and I don't mean to single him out here) so the policy becomes ineffective.
Which leads us into another policy lynch of its own 
Now into a small rant of why policy lynching isn't very useful in larger games:
Part of the reason I don't play larger games very often anymore (I replaced into LV because I felt the inactivity would ruin the game, but it did anyway) is because they're total derpfests where half the town goes afk because they don't want to play vanilla town. It's pathetic, really: people sign up either when they don't have time to play or when they aren't arsed to put in effort when they get a role they don't like. This leads to half the mafia team lurking their asses off and the game being more about picking apart the lurkers and killing them, usually going 50/50 scum/town, which ultimately sees even a modicum of scum effort resulting in a washover win as 5-6 townies get modkilled. This has happened in almost every single larger normal game for the past 9 months.
Look at any numbered TL game between XLIV and LV and this pattern persists throughout. The only exceptions I can think of are L and LI and those aren't very good exceptions at all.
What's the problem with policy lynching lurkers in these games? Well, when 10 people are inactive in a 30 player game, you can't policy lynch lurkers. It results in the actual scum actively lurking; they end up looking better or the same as 1/3 of the playerbase. There's a couple scum in the total inactives, a couple scum in the 2-3 post a day pool, and a couple of active scum. How can you policy lynch a lurker when there's an 80% chance they flip town?
EDIT: To substantiate my point with some evidence, I'm going to provide a list of the past 10-12 normal games and their statistics in terms of modkills and replacements. In almost all of them nearly all of the modkills/replacements are on vanilla townies.
too lazy, but as an example XLIV had
4 vanilla townies replaced (1 replacement modkilled)
1 mafia framer replaced.
4 vanilla townies modkilled
9/30
Last edit: 2012-06-07 16:30:59 |
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| annul United States. June 07 2012 18:30. Posts 2741 | Profile Blog # |
i have a policy
lynch the red team
everything else is fucking useless |
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| EchelonTee United States. June 07 2012 18:37. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
discussion about strategy?
what is this madness?
I agree though, policy lynching is fun. The arguement against it is traditionally "it kills discussion". However, when was the last time policy introduction ended discussion? It almost always causes a flurry of activity as people argue for and against it. As long as town atmosphere can be appropriately handled (difficult proposition....) an alternate topic is not such a bad idea. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| Cephiro Finland. June 07 2012 20:05. Posts 662 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 18:30 annul wrote:
i have a policy
lynch the red team
everything else is fucking useless
I approve this statement.
E: Except when I'm scum.Last edit: 2012-06-07 20:05:55 |
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| risk.nuke Sweden. June 07 2012 20:14. Posts 2763 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 20:05 Cephiro wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 18:30 annul wrote:
i have a policy
lynch the red team
everything else is fucking useless
I approve this statement. E: Except when I'm scum.
Alright, well just be sure to let us know which games those are so we can take that into our consideration.Last edit: 2012-06-07 20:25:44 |
| | Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 |
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| Kurumi Poland. June 07 2012 20:59. Posts 5139 | Profile Blog # |
lynch the dt before lynching the checked guy
extra mafia points if dt is a one shot one |
| | I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum! |
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| marvellosity United Kingdom. June 07 2012 21:10. Posts 11437 | Profile # |
| wbg: VT is my favourite role, I like just having "my wits and my vote" or whatever the blurb usually says ^_^ |
| | I disagree with myself - kushm4sta |
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| EchelonTee United States. June 07 2012 21:23. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 20:59 Kurumi wrote:
lynch the dt before lynching the checked guy
extra mafia points if dt is a one shot one
what's the full logic behind this exactly? I've heard this notion before, but didn't fully understand it
On June 07 2012 21:10 marvellosity wrote:
wbg: VT is my favourite role, I like just having "my wits and my vote" or whatever the blurb usually says ^_^
Me too! well, besides Mafia Goon  Last edit: 2012-06-07 21:24:08 |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| Kurumi Poland. June 07 2012 21:28. Posts 5139 | Profile Blog # |
On June 07 2012 21:23 EchelonTee wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 20:59 Kurumi wrote:
lynch the dt before lynching the checked guy
extra mafia points if dt is a one shot one
what's the full logic behind this exactly? I've heard this notion before, but didn't fully understand it
Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 21:10 marvellosity wrote:
wbg: VT is my favourite role, I like just having "my wits and my vote" or whatever the blurb usually says ^_^
Me too! well, besides Mafia Goon
Lynching dt's target says nothing about the dt |
| | I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum! |
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| Palmar Iceland. June 07 2012 21:52. Posts 7607 | Profile Blog # |
| What beats out policy lynching is lynching people who you think the host might have rigged to be scum. |
| | ♥ http://www.iron-edge.co.uk ♥ | |
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| rastaban United States. June 07 2012 22:13. Posts 2223 | Profile Blog # |
What are the policy lynches
Lynch Lurkers,
Lynch Bad Claims,
Lynch all Liars,
any useful ones that I am missing?
One I have been wondering about, is should you policy lynch all reds (provided the DT is sane) in a game with a miller but no framers(its not LYLO either)? It seems to me if they incurred enough suspicion to be checked by a DT then it isn't worth the risk of saving them. |
| | Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!" |
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Radfield  Canada. June 07 2012 22:23. Posts 2681 | Profile # | |
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| Toadesstern Germany. June 07 2012 22:25. Posts 6103 | Profile # |
policy lynches suck. Shoot those guys at night and lynch people you think are scummy early on.
If you lynch into lurkers, bad claimers or liars everyone will be like "yeah, he's a liar, lynch him" and there will be about 0 discussion on why or wether or not he should be lynched. The guy in question is either going to be lynched because of the policy or not but there's nothing town gets out of that lynch except for the true-random-chance to hit a mafia and the knowledge that the guy won't do the same thing the next game (including other people who will remember the poolicy lynch) so really, the only thing policy lynches are good for is making an example as town about what people want and what they don't want for games that are going to be hosted after this game.
I really like the educational part of policy-lynches, but that's usually not helping in my current game or even hurting me. |
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