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TLPD Winrates May 2012

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 Next
 
 mEtRoSG   Germany. June 07 2012 17:56. Posts 192
Profile # 
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

a solid 61%-39% winrate for zvt in korea, what you have to count into that is that the buff only hit the last 10 days of may so june is gonna get even more affected by that which means tvz is the most imbalanced matchup in sc2 history right now

about protosses crying about z, a 57,1% winrate in pvz doesnt seem too bad does it?

internationally :
tvp 49,3% - 50,7%
tvz 45,1% - 54,9%
zvp 52,5% - 47,5%

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion [sarcasm off]

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 08 2012 03:24 KawaiiRice wrote:
TvZ pre-patch used to be pretty good. Terran had various early-midgame pressure builds that could work without being scouted thx 2 nitropack overlord.

The problem now is that queens can literally deal with all light pressure builds, zergs are going up to 6 queens by default and overlords can scout pretty much everything, all while taking a fast third base.
Broadly, this means that 1base allins are absolutely terrible since everything gets scouted at like the 6 minute mark.
Zerg scouting at the 6-7 minute mark will scout and be able to adapt to any 2base pressure builds.
-nobody goes cloakshee anymore because it gets scouted and blocked so easily
-roach warren with some banes or just lingspam to infestors holds 2base pressure such as cs marine hellion, 2fact blue flame hellions, marine hellion medivac, and those terrible 2base 3 tank pushes or whatever
If zerg scouts 3 cc they can literally sddddddddddddd to 65+ off 4 lings and start hive at like 10-11 minutes. This means they hit late game faster than terran, where terran cannot have a late game fight and has to rely on counters.

3CC was viable pre-patch because of one crucial thing - zergs couldn't take early 3rd. Now zergs can make 2 more queens or roaches and defend all pressure from Terran if they scout. Now that Zerg can take early 3rd, trying to outmacro a Zerg results in zerg outmacroing you super hard (provided they see the CC). But we have to get a fast 3rd in some way since 2base pressure gets scouted so easily and 2base allins are flat out bad.
edit: 3cc also means creep gets spread all across the map at 14 minutes. l0l0l

TLDR: zerg can scout and adapt to everything while having superior econ, and hits late game composition much faster as a result of the queen range, god scouting and new maphack known as creep spread thx 2 patch

Terran right now has to find some strong reliable 2base hard pressure build which doesn't commit and also gives them a fast 3rd in order to compete in a macro game. I've tried some but those can be hard countered really badly.


to give a more accurate winrate of tvz after the patch:

[–]sheltered 27 points 7 hours ago*

I can give you TvZ from the GSL up and downs, the GSL qualifiers, and the GSTL if that helps?

There have been 112 games total played, Zerg have won 83 of them while Terran have won 29, giving Zergs about a 74% win rate.


Last edit: 2012-06-08 04:28:19
Old Post

 
 mrtomjones   Canada. June 07 2012 17:57. Posts 3899
Profile # 
Not bad balance in the other matchups... the queen buff is too new to the TvZ match to judge it.
 
Old Post

 
 Wrathsc2   United States. June 07 2012 17:58. Posts 1877
Profile # 
regardless of the statistics i still think the queen buff is just too much. a faster spine crawler root time could have done.
A marine walks into a bar and asks, "Wheres the counter?"
Old Post

 
 Sm1Le   United States. June 07 2012 17:59. Posts 173
Profile Blog # 
"terran imba"
@iDavidWhang
Old Post

  Serpest   United States. June 07 2012 17:59. Posts 303Profile # 
That's super hilarious. The PvZ and ZvT winrates have skewed towards 60/40 - ZvT especially. It'll be interesting to see what Terrans say now that the situation from 2010 has been reversed.
A person that attempts to diagnose themselves has a fool for a doctor and a bigger fool for a patient.
Old Post

 
 SolidMoose   United States. June 07 2012 18:00. Posts 1143
Profile # 

On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion


The way GSTL is going it's gonna be even worse for June.

I hope this is a wake up call to blizzard for implementing unnecessary buffs.
 
Old Post

 
 boxturtle   United States. June 07 2012 18:01. Posts 220
Profile # 
My lord, those statistics are.......awful to see. Wake the heck up Blizzard.
 
Old Post

 
 Satiinifi   Finland. June 07 2012 18:02. Posts 165
Profile # 

On June 07 2012 18:00 SolidMoose wrote:

Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion



The way GSTL is going it's gonna be even worse for June.

I hope this is a wake up call to blizzard for implementing unnecessary buffs.



Dont worry, they will nerf terran in next patch too anyway.
Old Post

 
 beatitudes   United States. June 07 2012 18:02. Posts 163
Profile # 
june is gonna be even worse
<3
Old Post

 
 Kaitokid   Germany. June 07 2012 18:04. Posts 1322
Profile Blog # 
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.
Old Post

 
 MrCash   United States. June 07 2012 18:04. Posts 1498
Profile # 

On June 07 2012 18:02 Satiinifi wrote:

Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 18:00 SolidMoose wrote:

On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion


The way GSTL is going it's gonna be even worse for June.

I hope this is a wake up call to blizzard for implementing unnecessary buffs.




Dont worry, they will nerf terran in next patch too anyway.


It's funny because it's true.
Old Post

 
 pdd   Australia. June 07 2012 18:05. Posts 8302
Profile Blog # 

On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion

That statement makes no sense. TvZ in Korea was perfect without the queen buff. It was the best SC2 match-up and one of the most balanced.

Then all of a sudden the patch hits and now it's back into an infancy stage where Terran has to learn new ways to play again and that makes for some really really bad matches (see the countless number of hard to scout roach-baneling all-ins in GSTL).

Overlord buff was alright. Queen buff was overdone.
aMMAzing | Team MVP (Most Vibrant Personalities)
Old Post

 
 beatitudes   United States. June 07 2012 18:05. Posts 163
Profile # 

On June 07 2012 18:04 Kaitokid wrote:
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.


one good and one bad matchup is horrible balance for an rts o.O
<3
Old Post

 
 mEtRoSG   Germany. June 07 2012 18:06. Posts 192
Profile # 

On June 07 2012 18:04 Kaitokid wrote:
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.


are you capable of reading graphs? even on international lvl terran has the lowest winrate and is under 50% vs p and unter 45% vs z
Old Post

 
 mEtRoSG   Germany. June 07 2012 18:07. Posts 192
Profile # 

On June 07 2012 18:05 pdd wrote:

Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion


That statement makes no sense. TvZ in Korea was perfect without the queen buff. It was the best SC2 match-up and one of the most balanced.

Then all of a sudden the patch hits and now it's back into an infancy stage where Terran has to learn new ways to play again and that makes for some really really bad matches (see the countless number of hard to scout roach-baneling all-ins in GSTL).

Overlord buff was alright. Queen buff was overdone.


thanks for pointing that out, it was ment to be totally sarcastic
Old Post

 
 SolidMoose   United States. June 07 2012 18:07. Posts 1143
Profile # 

On June 07 2012 18:04 Kaitokid wrote:
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.


I hope you're joking. There hasn't been imbalance this bad since 1/1/1 was destroying protoss. Even ZvT international is nearing 55-45. Weirdly enough the only thing that seems to be fine overall is TvP.
Last edit: 2012-06-07 18:08:20
 
Old Post

 
 eviltomahawk   United States. June 07 2012 18:08. Posts 8940
Profile Blog # 
How much do you guys think PvProleague is affecting the Korean win-rates?
<3 <3 IU Ailee Minzi Gain <3 <3 ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Old Post

 
 pdd   Australia. June 07 2012 18:09. Posts 8302
Profile Blog # 

On June 07 2012 18:07 mEtRoSG wrote:

Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 18:05 pdd wrote:

On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion

That statement makes no sense. TvZ in Korea was perfect without the queen buff. It was the best SC2 match-up and one of the most balanced.

Then all of a sudden the patch hits and now it's back into an infancy stage where Terran has to learn new ways to play again and that makes for some really really bad matches (see the countless number of hard to scout roach-baneling all-ins in GSTL).

Overlord buff was alright. Queen buff was overdone.


thanks for pointing that out, it was ment to be totally sarcastic

Woop, silly me


On June 07 2012 18:07 SolidMoose wrote:

Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 18:04 Kaitokid wrote:
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.



I hope you're joking. There hasn't been imbalance this bad since 1/1/1 was destroying protoss. Even ZvT international is nearing 55-45. Weirdly enough the only thing that seems to be fine overall is TvP.

That's probably because Terrans still have some way to pressure in the mid game vs Protoss. It's really hard to pressure now vs Zerg.
aMMAzing | Team MVP (Most Vibrant Personalities)
Old Post

 
 MateShade   Australia. June 07 2012 18:10. Posts 708
Profile # 

On June 07 2012 18:05 pdd wrote:

Show nested quote +
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ

discuss!

i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion


That statement makes no sense. TvZ in Korea was perfect without the queen buff. It was the best SC2 match-up and one of the most balanced.

Then all of a sudden the patch hits and now it's back into an infancy stage where Terran has to learn new ways to play again and that makes for some really really bad matches (see the countless number of hard to scout roach-baneling all-ins in GSTL).

Overlord buff was alright. Queen buff was overdone.

Is obviously sarcastic lol

Edit: op do you know what our icon means with the smiley face? O.o only just notoced
Last edit: 2012-06-07 18:12:34
 
Old Post

  CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr   June 07 2012 18:10. Posts 544Profile # 
Its the stats of may the patch wasnt fully in effect remember june will be different.
Its bad to the point where IM coach gets shit for for sending out a guy with an 80% tvz to snipe a zerg anyway now...
awaiting the return of the space cowboy
Old Post

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