| mEtRoSG Germany. June 07 2012 17:56. Posts 192 | Profile # |
http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQ
a solid 61%-39% winrate for zvt in korea, what you have to count into that is that the buff only hit the last 10 days of may so june is gonna get even more affected by that which means tvz is the most imbalanced matchup in sc2 history right now
about protosses crying about z, a 57,1% winrate in pvz doesnt seem too bad does it?
internationally :
tvp 49,3% - 50,7%
tvz 45,1% - 54,9%
zvp 52,5% - 47,5%
discuss!
i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion [sarcasm off]
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 08 2012 03:24 KawaiiRice wrote:
TvZ pre-patch used to be pretty good. Terran had various early-midgame pressure builds that could work without being scouted thx 2 nitropack overlord.
The problem now is that queens can literally deal with all light pressure builds, zergs are going up to 6 queens by default and overlords can scout pretty much everything, all while taking a fast third base.
Broadly, this means that 1base allins are absolutely terrible since everything gets scouted at like the 6 minute mark.
Zerg scouting at the 6-7 minute mark will scout and be able to adapt to any 2base pressure builds.
-nobody goes cloakshee anymore because it gets scouted and blocked so easily
-roach warren with some banes or just lingspam to infestors holds 2base pressure such as cs marine hellion, 2fact blue flame hellions, marine hellion medivac, and those terrible 2base 3 tank pushes or whatever
If zerg scouts 3 cc they can literally sddddddddddddd to 65+ off 4 lings and start hive at like 10-11 minutes. This means they hit late game faster than terran, where terran cannot have a late game fight and has to rely on counters.
3CC was viable pre-patch because of one crucial thing - zergs couldn't take early 3rd. Now zergs can make 2 more queens or roaches and defend all pressure from Terran if they scout. Now that Zerg can take early 3rd, trying to outmacro a Zerg results in zerg outmacroing you super hard (provided they see the CC). But we have to get a fast 3rd in some way since 2base pressure gets scouted so easily and 2base allins are flat out bad.
edit: 3cc also means creep gets spread all across the map at 14 minutes. l0l0l
TLDR: zerg can scout and adapt to everything while having superior econ, and hits late game composition much faster as a result of the queen range, god scouting and new maphack known as creep spread thx 2 patch
Terran right now has to find some strong reliable 2base hard pressure build which doesn't commit and also gives them a fast 3rd in order to compete in a macro game. I've tried some but those can be hard countered really badly.
to give a more accurate winrate of tvz after the patch:
[–]sheltered 27 points 7 hours ago*
I can give you TvZ from the GSL up and downs, the GSL qualifiers, and the GSTL if that helps?
There have been 112 games total played, Zerg have won 83 of them while Terran have won 29, giving Zergs about a 74% win rate.
Last edit: 2012-06-08 04:28:19 |
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| mrtomjones Canada. June 07 2012 17:57. Posts 3867 | Profile # |
| Not bad balance in the other matchups... the queen buff is too new to the TvZ match to judge it. |
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| Wrathsc2 United States. June 07 2012 17:58. Posts 1858 | Profile # |
| regardless of the statistics i still think the queen buff is just too much. a faster spine crawler root time could have done. |
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| Sm1Le United States. June 07 2012 17:59. Posts 173 | Profile Blog # | |
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 Serpest United States. June 07 2012 17:59. Posts 303 | Profile # |
| That's super hilarious. The PvZ and ZvT winrates have skewed towards 60/40 - ZvT especially. It'll be interesting to see what Terrans say now that the situation from 2010 has been reversed. |
| | A person that attempts to diagnose themselves has a fool for a doctor and a bigger fool for a patient. | |
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| SolidMoose United States. June 07 2012 18:00. Posts 1100 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQdiscuss! i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion
The way GSTL is going it's gonna be even worse for June.
I hope this is a wake up call to blizzard for implementing unnecessary buffs. |
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| boxturtle United States. June 07 2012 18:01. Posts 219 | Profile # |
| My lord, those statistics are.......awful to see. Wake the heck up Blizzard. |
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| Satiinifi Finland. June 07 2012 18:02. Posts 165 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 18:00 SolidMoose wrote:The way GSTL is going it's gonna be even worse for June. I hope this is a wake up call to blizzard for implementing unnecessary buffs.
Dont worry, they will nerf terran in next patch too anyway. |
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| beatitudes United States. June 07 2012 18:02. Posts 163 | Profile # |
| june is gonna be even worse |
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| Kaitokid Germany. June 07 2012 18:04. Posts 1322 | Profile Blog # |
| well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good. |
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| MrCash United States. June 07 2012 18:04. Posts 1498 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 18:02 Satiinifi wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 18:00 SolidMoose wrote:
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQdiscuss! i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion
The way GSTL is going it's gonna be even worse for June. I hope this is a wake up call to blizzard for implementing unnecessary buffs.
Dont worry, they will nerf terran in next patch too anyway.
It's funny because it's true. |
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| pdd Australia. June 07 2012 18:05. Posts 8242 | Profile Blog # |
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQdiscuss! i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion
That statement makes no sense. TvZ in Korea was perfect without the queen buff. It was the best SC2 match-up and one of the most balanced.
Then all of a sudden the patch hits and now it's back into an infancy stage where Terran has to learn new ways to play again and that makes for some really really bad matches (see the countless number of hard to scout roach-baneling all-ins in GSTL).
Overlord buff was alright. Queen buff was overdone. |
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| beatitudes United States. June 07 2012 18:05. Posts 163 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 18:04 Kaitokid wrote:
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.
one good and one bad matchup is horrible balance for an rts o.O |
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| mEtRoSG Germany. June 07 2012 18:06. Posts 192 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 18:04 Kaitokid wrote:
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.
are you capable of reading graphs? even on international lvl terran has the lowest winrate and is under 50% vs p and unter 45% vs z
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| mEtRoSG Germany. June 07 2012 18:07. Posts 192 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 18:05 pdd wrote:That statement makes no sense. TvZ in Korea was perfect without the queen buff. It was the best SC2 match-up and one of the most balanced. Then all of a sudden the patch hits and now it's back into an infancy stage where Terran has to learn new ways to play again and that makes for some really really bad matches (see the countless number of hard to scout roach-baneling all-ins in GSTL). Overlord buff was alright. Queen buff was overdone.
thanks for pointing that out, it was ment to be totally sarcastic |
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| SolidMoose United States. June 07 2012 18:07. Posts 1100 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 18:04 Kaitokid wrote:
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.
I hope you're joking. There hasn't been imbalance this bad since 1/1/1 was destroying protoss. Even ZvT international is nearing 55-45. Weirdly enough the only thing that seems to be fine overall is TvP.Last edit: 2012-06-07 18:08:20 |
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| eviltomahawk United States. June 07 2012 18:08. Posts 8881 | Profile Blog # |
| How much do you guys think PvProleague is affecting the Korean win-rates? |
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| pdd Australia. June 07 2012 18:09. Posts 8242 | Profile Blog # |
On June 07 2012 18:07 mEtRoSG wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 18:05 pdd wrote:
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote:http://imgur.com/a/5uKDQdiscuss! i like tvz in korea, the queen buff was necessary in my opinion
That statement makes no sense. TvZ in Korea was perfect without the queen buff. It was the best SC2 match-up and one of the most balanced. Then all of a sudden the patch hits and now it's back into an infancy stage where Terran has to learn new ways to play again and that makes for some really really bad matches (see the countless number of hard to scout roach-baneling all-ins in GSTL). Overlord buff was alright. Queen buff was overdone.
thanks for pointing that out, it was ment to be totally sarcastic
Woop, silly me
On June 07 2012 18:07 SolidMoose wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 18:04 Kaitokid wrote:
well in Korea every race has one strong and one bad matchup... its not just Terran. internationally its the same except Protoss has under 50 win% against both races. I'd say balance looks pretty good.
I hope you're joking. There hasn't been imbalance this bad since 1/1/1 was destroying protoss. Even ZvT international is nearing 55-45. Weirdly enough the only thing that seems to be fine overall is TvP.
That's probably because Terrans still have some way to pressure in the mid game vs Protoss. It's really hard to pressure now vs Zerg. |
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| MateShade Australia. June 07 2012 18:10. Posts 705 | Profile # |
On June 07 2012 18:05 pdd wrote:That statement makes no sense. TvZ in Korea was perfect without the queen buff. It was the best SC2 match-up and one of the most balanced. Then all of a sudden the patch hits and now it's back into an infancy stage where Terran has to learn new ways to play again and that makes for some really really bad matches (see the countless number of hard to scout roach-baneling all-ins in GSTL). Overlord buff was alright. Queen buff was overdone.
Is obviously sarcastic lol
Edit: op do you know what our icon means with the smiley face? O.o only just notocedLast edit: 2012-06-07 18:12:34 |
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 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr June 07 2012 18:10. Posts 544 | Profile # |
Its the stats of may the patch wasnt fully in effect remember june will be different.
Its bad to the point where IM coach gets shit for for sending out a guy with an 80% tvz to snipe a zerg anyway now... |
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