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| Dalavita Sweden. June 20 2012 07:21. Posts 1113 | Profile # |
| Is marine tank dead in TvZ by the way? A majority of TvZs I see now has Marine marauder medivac play rather than the standard marine tank composition. is it because mass lings straight up murder marine tank until you get to the later stages at which point everything else does, and marine tank doesn't let you get aggressive early on? |
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| Noocta France. June 20 2012 07:31. Posts 8630 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 02:33 zmansman17 wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 16:52 biology]major wrote:
On June 19 2012 12:24 zmansman17 wrote:
On June 19 2012 11:46 iTzSnypah wrote:
I want Blizzard to buff Ravens. Maybe changing the cost to 150/150?
More like 100/150 or 150/100.
cost is not the problem fungal >> ravens because of range. hsm travels too slow also.
Cost is a start. Granted, fungal outranges HSM and Ravens can't cast whilst being fungaled. However, if only fungal didn't preclude movement entirely, or didn't disallow casting abilities, or lower range, we wouldn't have all these problems with Zerg.
Makd durable material baseline,and buff Ravens speed to 2.75 or higher.
That would be some nice changes for the unit.
It's too slow in comparaison to Science Vessels, and the unit has too many upgrades. ( 5, FIVE in total ) |
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| Destructicon June 20 2012 07:45. Posts 1380 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 07:31 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 02:33 zmansman17 wrote:
On June 19 2012 16:52 biology]major wrote:
On June 19 2012 12:24 zmansman17 wrote:
On June 19 2012 11:46 iTzSnypah wrote:
I want Blizzard to buff Ravens. Maybe changing the cost to 150/150?
More like 100/150 or 150/100.
cost is not the problem fungal >> ravens because of range. hsm travels too slow also.
Cost is a start. Granted, fungal outranges HSM and Ravens can't cast whilst being fungaled. However, if only fungal didn't preclude movement entirely, or didn't disallow casting abilities, or lower range, we wouldn't have all these problems with Zerg.
Makd durable material baseline,and buff Ravens speed to 2.75 or higher. That would be some nice changes for the unit. It's too slow in comparaison to Science Vessels, and the unit has too many upgrades. ( 5, FIVE in total )
Raven's HSM is also way too expensive energy wise, even with the upgrade it takes 4 minutes to charge up and use a missile, thats way too long considering most other casters can use their spells either instantly after they are out or after a short period of time.
I understand that Blizzard is afraid of the mass aoe damage potential of a raven shooting 2 missiles at once, but seriously there are other more elegant ways to fix that.
First the range needs to go up so they can't be chain fungaled from a safe distance. Then the missile needs to be made to cost 75 energy but have a 6-10 second cooldown. That way 1 raven can't instantly 2 shot a BL, but it still can come front loaded with direct damage. Lastly auto-turrents should probably be made to cost 25 energy, seeing as infested terrans already get that treatment and auto-turrets are much, much less useful, immobile, can't be placed line units, rather like structures, and don't benefit from attack upgrades.
And if anybody still things that Raven's are fine and we haven't "experimented" with them enough yet. Go watch MKP vs Symbol of this GSL's RO32 Game 1 on MetroPolis.
I'll even summarize it, after going split map, MKP invested a lot into getting Ravens, not only did this deplete a significant portion of his bank, but it was very underwhelming, Symbol's first attack with BL's, Corrupters and Infestors killed off nearly all the Ravens and a huge chunk of MKPs army. Afterwards Symbol followed up with a Ultralisk tech switch attack, which MKP was in no shape to defend, because he had supply and resources stuck in stupid kamikaze drones that did jack shit against BLs, and where now even more useless vs Ultralisks.
The game proved that not only are Ravens nearly useless, doing far, far too little for their cost, requiring way too much time to set-up and be ready, despite how large the map was, but it also showed that Ravens are shit when the tech switch into Ultralisks happens.
Don't even mention auto-turret walls to stop or slow the Ultralisks, that was a joke, the Ultralisks just plowed right trough like it was nothing.
Right now the old ghost is looking like the only solution, as it not only could cost effectively deal with BLs and Ultralisks, IF controlled well, but it could also help in neutralizing infestors.
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| IMoperator June 20 2012 08:54. Posts 1656 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 07:21 Dalavita wrote:
Is marine tank dead in TvZ by the way? A majority of TvZs I see now has Marine marauder medivac play rather than the standard marine tank composition. is it because mass lings straight up murder marine tank until you get to the later stages at which point everything else does, and marine tank doesn't let you get aggressive early on?
with bio you can trade easier and you're much more mobile. Fungals also don't do anything to marauders if you split well and have a lot of medivacs. Bio is better midgame for sure atm. |
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 Sroobz United States. June 20 2012 08:58. Posts 1377 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 08:54 IMoperator wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 07:21 Dalavita wrote:
Is marine tank dead in TvZ by the way? A majority of TvZs I see now has Marine marauder medivac play rather than the standard marine tank composition. is it because mass lings straight up murder marine tank until you get to the later stages at which point everything else does, and marine tank doesn't let you get aggressive early on?
with bio you can trade easier and you're much more mobile. Fungals also don't do anything to marauders if you split well and have a lot of medivacs. Bio is better midgame for sure atm.
And with it...Terran position control is dead. Now Zerg is the position control race (infestor), early game race (baneling/roach bust is basically not even all in anymore because zergs take thirds and can't even be punished), the midgame race (infestor), the late game race (infestor, broodlord), AND the race that resupplies the fastest. Welp, I think Terran has a chance with Ghosts and Ravens LOLOLOL TROLOLOL |
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| BigO Sweden. June 20 2012 09:23. Posts 34 | Profile # |
| What we need isn't another "counter-all" unit from terran, what we need is to nerf those units (HT's, Infestors) from the other races. Making HT's feedack only work against psionic and Infestors fungal growth not work against air seems like the best suggestions so far. These "counter-all" units only makes for dull games since everyone just seem to build plenty of those units to get an "easy" win. |
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| Sroobz United States. June 20 2012 09:27. Posts 1377 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 09:23 BigO wrote:
What we need isn't another "counter-all" unit from terran, what we need is to nerf those units (HT's, Infestors) from the other races. Making HT's feedack only work against psionic and Infestors fungal growth not work against air seems like the best suggestions so far. These "counter-all" units only makes for dull games since everyone just seem to build plenty of those units to get an "easy" win.
Yup. Also, the midgame needs another 5 minutes. 3/3 and Hive come way too fast. |
| | Flash---Taeja---Mvp---Byun---DRG |
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| Neurosis United States. June 20 2012 09:28. Posts 891 | Profile # |
| Did anyone see yugioh vs parting at last night's gsl? That was a clear display of infestor imbalance. That was just dumb. Last edit: 2012-06-20 09:28:55 |
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| monkybone June 20 2012 09:32. Posts 2877 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 09:28 Neurosis wrote:
Did anyone see yugioh vs parting at last night's gsl? That was a clear display of infestor imbalance. That was just dumb.
I don't think so. What was parting doing there all the while anyway? It's not common for protoss to sit outside the Zerg base being fungaled like that. I'd like to see yugiho do that near Partings base. Could also have used colossus to do some damage and scare away the infestors.Last edit: 2012-06-20 09:33:18 |
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| ZeromuS Canada. June 20 2012 09:38. Posts 8291 | Profile Blog # |
On June 20 2012 09:27 Sroobz wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:23 BigO wrote:
What we need isn't another "counter-all" unit from terran, what we need is to nerf those units (HT's, Infestors) from the other races. Making HT's feedack only work against psionic and Infestors fungal growth not work against air seems like the best suggestions so far. These "counter-all" units only makes for dull games since everyone just seem to build plenty of those units to get an "easy" win.
Yup. Also, the midgame needs another 5 minutes. 3/3 and Hive come way too fast.
feedback affect only psionic? that's kind of ridiculous and wouldn't fix anything about the Terran match up. feedback isn't the only thing that is good against thors if that's where you are headed. |
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| Blyadischa June 20 2012 09:42. Posts 404 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 09:38 ZeromuS wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:27 Sroobz wrote:
On June 20 2012 09:23 BigO wrote:
What we need isn't another "counter-all" unit from terran, what we need is to nerf those units (HT's, Infestors) from the other races. Making HT's feedack only work against psionic and Infestors fungal growth not work against air seems like the best suggestions so far. These "counter-all" units only makes for dull games since everyone just seem to build plenty of those units to get an "easy" win.
Yup. Also, the midgame needs another 5 minutes. 3/3 and Hive come way too fast.
feedback affect only psionic? that's kind of ridiculous and wouldn't fix anything about the Terran match up. feedback isn't the only thing that is good against thors if that's where you are headed.
It would allow BCs, Thors, and Banshees to be introduced into mid / lategame play viably. |
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| Neurosis United States. June 20 2012 09:45. Posts 891 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 09:32 monkybone wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:28 Neurosis wrote:
Did anyone see yugioh vs parting at last night's gsl? That was a clear display of infestor imbalance. That was just dumb.
I don't think so. What was parting doing there all the while anyway? It's not common for protoss to sit outside the Zerg base being fungaled like that. I'd like to see yugiho do that near Partings base. Could also have used colossus to do some damage and scare away the infestors.
He was trying to end the game that he had won, like any other player would try to do. The fact that yugioh was even able to force that situation was retarded enough, but then winning game 2 was the icing on the cake imo. |
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| monkybone June 20 2012 09:54. Posts 2877 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 09:45 Neurosis wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 09:32 monkybone wrote:
On June 20 2012 09:28 Neurosis wrote:
Did anyone see yugioh vs parting at last night's gsl? That was a clear display of infestor imbalance. That was just dumb.
I don't think so. What was parting doing there all the while anyway? It's not common for protoss to sit outside the Zerg base being fungaled like that. I'd like to see yugiho do that near Partings base. Could also have used colossus to do some damage and scare away the infestors.
He was trying to end the game that he had won, like any other player would try to do. The fact that yugioh was even able to force that situation was retarded enough, but then winning game 2 was the icing on the cake imo.
Point is that it was Partings fault, he could have avoided the whole situation. He couldn't finish the game due to yugihos army, so he shouldn't be there. Last edit: 2012-06-20 09:55:35 |
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| Satiinifi Finland. June 20 2012 17:53. Posts 165 | Profile # |
| another thing that makes broodlings so broken is the fact you get 33 with normal upgrades, I can only imagine if my bc was 33 with normal upgrades, and broodlords own damage is meaningless and lets not even talk about infested terran in lategame, 25 mana costing marine with 11? damage, basicly if your infestors stack up mana one 2 supply unit can turn into 8 11 damage marines Last edit: 2012-06-20 17:53:44 |
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| NeWeNiyaLord Norway. June 20 2012 18:03. Posts 2464 | Profile Blog # |
Hope Blizzard realizes that the game is broken right now, and as a cleenup process they release the HOTS beta!
Current metagame :
PvZ = The protoss must so some sort of allinn / play very greedy (playing greedy is almost impossible because of the queen range and overlord speed, Z can scout anything)
ZvT = The terran relies on early pressure which is impossible because of the queen range. Allin also gets harder because of the overlord speed.
TvP = Early - Mid game : Terran must do alot of dmg without loosing much of his own. Lategame: If you didnt do enough pressure you practically dead in the later stages .  Macro games are getting rarer and rarer on the ladder (Atleast for High masters league!) |
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| Satiinifi Finland. June 20 2012 18:29. Posts 165 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 18:03 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Hope Blizzard realizes that the game is broken right now, and as a cleenup process they release the HOTS beta! Current metagame : PvZ = The protoss must so some sort of allinn / play very greedy (playing greedy is almost impossible because of the queen range and overlord speed, Z can scout anything) ZvT = The terran relies on early pressure which is impossible because of the queen range. Allin also gets harder because of the overlord speed. TvP = Early - Mid game : Terran must do alot of dmg without loosing much of his own. Lategame: If you didnt do enough pressure you practically dead in the later stages . Macro games are getting rarer and rarer on the ladder (Atleast for High masters league!)
The overlord speed isnt the problem for allins, the problem for allins is that on many of the new maps there are overlord positions that are utterly jokes, cloud kingdom being the worst of all, basicly zerg sees every single unit that leaves the terran base as long as terran makes a viking, I often have games where the overlord is still in position close to my natural at 20min mark, it cant even be killed with air visio.... |
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| NeWeNiyaLord Norway. June 20 2012 18:32. Posts 2464 | Profile Blog # |
| Well yes that's also a issue, but my point was, as unclear as I might have explained. Is that the terran shouldn't have to resort to semi/all/ins just to stay alive into the later stages. And with the Queen buff even that is getting harder. I really hope Hots changes this so agression is a choice and not a must like in BW. Harass is still needed I hope. But not to to the same degree as it's current state |
| | This is where we begin. Show your true self, Battosai. | |
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| Satiinifi Finland. June 20 2012 20:48. Posts 165 | Profile # | |
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| teamhozac June 21 2012 01:19. Posts 404 | Profile # |
Wow, 1 terran? That is pretty sad... still waiting for someone to come up with some ladder stats to show the terran extinction on ladder |
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| AsymptoticClimax United Kingdom. June 21 2012 01:55. Posts 246 | Profile # |
On June 20 2012 07:21 Dalavita wrote:
Is marine tank dead in TvZ by the way? A majority of TvZs I see now has Marine marauder medivac play rather than the standard marine tank composition. is it because mass lings straight up murder marine tank until you get to the later stages at which point everything else does, and marine tank doesn't let you get aggressive early on?
Yeah but I can see this change when HoTS comes out though with the battlehellions and dark swarm not affecting mech. |
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