PvZ basic mechanics and stuff help?

Ok my PvZ sucks and this game proves it. I dont really know how to get better and guides on stuff on liquipedia don't help much as they say what the builds are about and supposed to do, but I can't execute/have it flexible to counter whatever the zerg is going to do wen he knows what I'm going to do. In my replay, I see him going for a 9 pool when im FEing and I react by getting a cannon -> gateway -> cannon. I get my gas in my main at 14, my core at 18, and my nat at 22. I know my natural expansion is wayyy off and every time i have it earlier say at like 14 ish, i die by ling speed runbys so i get my nat up a lot later. anyways, i see a 3 base spire and i know hes going to go for muta/scourage into hydras. I get 2 stargates, then a robo, hoping to go reaver sair. The zerg player macros up while im staying on 2 bases and I get steamrolled once i go for a third and i just GG.

Heres my replay : http://www.mediafire.com/?1dtc0jguj44ukd6

ok so here are my questions.
1) If my opponent 9 pools, when should my nexus, pylon, gateway, and core timing be?
2) I see a 3 base spire. what build is best effective against that?
3) When should I get my third?

tips, help, vods, whatever. any help is appreciated. i desperately want to improve my PvZ

endy China. June 09 2012 14:50. Posts 6129

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Here is the LP for standard fast expand.
(Wiki)

Protoss FE (vs. Zerg)
You're not supposed to build your core and your gas before your natural nexus.

3 base spire is standard, and most of the time, the zerg will only make a few pairs of scourge to defend against your early corsair, he will not make mutas, and he will transition to 5 hatch hydras.

Do not go corsairs + reavers, it only works well on some maps, and it's very APM intensive.

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Chronopolis Canada. June 09 2012 14:52. Posts 1389

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First aid response from what I generally know is correct.

Your supposed to stop probe production, I think no matter what the zerg does, programers always get the nexus at or before 18.
1) against 9 pool gas, go forge, 13 cannon, 14 cannon, 14 nexus, 14 gate, 15 gas, 17 core, 17 pylon in main, (nexus should finish),

From the gateway, pump zealot zealot goon zealot, etc.
@core finished, throw down stargate
citadel, 2nd gas
2 or 3 more gates here
@ stargate 100% corsair

Learn simcities from wikipedia, it's well worth your time (takes maybe half an hour to memorize 4 positions for the first time)

2) That could be 3 hatch muta or 3 hatch spire into five hatch hydra (standard play). Look for 2nd gas and lack of hydra den, and/or a significant amount of lings which point towards muta. fast 2nd gas and hydra den can also be a sign of fast lurkers. get a cannon in your main mineral line as your corsair is finishing, if you see a spire and suspect mutalisk, you can get 1-2 more corsairs to be prepared if mutalisks do in fact come. If you see mutas already, then obviously continously pump corsairs.

3) If you don't have enough units to take a third after a reasonable amount of time, check if you are macroing well.

Don't go sair reaver. It's very apm-intensive to make it work, and you are probably better of going for more normal gateway templar play.

Last edit: 2012-06-09 14:53:36

You see, it's a siege tank that shoots force fields.

fold Australia. June 09 2012 15:04. Posts 597

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The zerg did 9 overlord then 9 pool not a 9 pool then overlord. That doesn't really change anything on your end though, you'd still want to go 8 pylon 10/11 forge 13 two cannons 15 nexus 15 gate against both builds. With the build you're doing, your expansion is really delayed and although you get your core up early, the stargate still comes late since you don't have enough resources to make it and the sair so this build really isn't the most efficient.

Just do a standard forge FE with cannons followed by nexus. With two cannons and one or two probes blocking you really shouldn't need to be scared of runbys as two cannons can kill 6 normal lings with minimal probe micro. If you do see the zerg doing 9 pool speed (you'll know this by seeing the early gas and drones mining from it), you will also need to pull 5 probes and have them blocking the choke until you get your zealots out. Move the zealots into the probes position once they come out. An alternative method you can do is to make an extra third hidden cannon closer to the ramp and have two probes blocking the ramp. This delays your nexus a bit but it's fine considering the zerg sacrificed economy to get speedlings out quickly.

[image loading]

I didn't finish watching the replay but I think you should focus on easier builds. Sair/reaver is a really hard build to pull off, requires you to really understand the matchup well and you need good execution to make it work. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=194558 <-- This is a nice guide to +1 speedlots/sairs which is relatively easy to execute and gives you a good strong mid game and map control with zealots assuming you don't suicide them.

Edit: I see the above posters have said same thing regarding sair/reaver

Last edit: 2012-06-09 15:07:23

t.t

WeRRa June 09 2012 20:27. Posts 307

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scout 9 pool -> 8 pylon, 11 forge, 13 2 canons 15 nexus 15 gate 16 pylon 16 gas.

over pool -> 8 pylon, 11 forge , 13 canon 13 nexus, if it is crossposition or he got hatch already morphing at nat when you scout him, you can also go 13 nexus, then 13 canon, second canon is just needed if he has more than 4 lings or goes overpool gas, where he will try a runby most likely, then 14 gate, 15 gas, 16 pylon.

scout 12 hatch-> 8 pylon, 11 forge, 13 nexus, 13 gate, 14 gas, 15 canon, no fast pylon needed.
these timings are ofc if you don't scout zerg right away, if you scout him right away and see 12 hatch you can also go for 8 pylon, 11/12 nexus, 13 forge, 14 gate, 15 gas or if your confident at your timings, you can get gate also before forge.
you don't wanna get canons and forge to early and also not to much canons, this will simply delay your tech.

and don't use the pylon in the wall like fold shows, this will make it in general harder to defend runbys imo, simply cause you have to defend 2 areas, btw pylon and forge and above gate, if you don't use pylon just need to defend above gate, much easier to concentrade on.

InnoVation Fighting!!!

olabaz United States. June 10 2012 03:31. Posts 186

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You said the guides on Liquipedia don't help you, but, have you read them? All of your questions are answered in there. There's no reason for you to have such a terrible build order and then go sair/reaver when you can't handle it mechanically...Just read Liquipedia.

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