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| SmileZerg United States. June 11 2012 18:40. Posts 378 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 18:38 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Reaper bunker rush will become alot more viable. (like beta?)
I don't see how. Reapers lost their special attack vs structures and even have lower damage vs light. Their only new bonus is additional health and regen, which has no synergy with a bunker at all.Last edit: 2012-06-11 18:41:51 |
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| Vindicare605 United States. June 11 2012 18:44. Posts 6487 | Profile Blog # |
On June 09 2012 17:52 SpecFire wrote:
Thank you! very helpful
also, wtf, Warhound only 150/75? seems cheap.
It is very inexpensive. It massacres Stalkers too for only 25 additional gas investment.
The only thing keeping the warhound from being OP imo is the lack of anti air. It is a SOLID unit otherwise.Last edit: 2012-06-11 18:45:09 |
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| D4V3Z02 Germany. June 11 2012 18:55. Posts 570 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 18:40 SmileZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 18:38 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Reaper bunker rush will become alot more viable. (like beta?)
I don't see how. Reapers lost their special attack vs structures and even have lower damage vs light. Their only new bonus is additional health and regen, which has no synergy with a bunker at all.
When you place a bunker in the natural of Metalopolis cant you hit the mineral line in the main with vision on the high ground and the natural with 7 range?
Isnt it also crucial that spinecrawler wont outrange bunker? So bunker which get repaired kill spinecrawler?Last edit: 2012-06-11 18:59:19 |
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| Salteador Neo Andorra. June 11 2012 18:57. Posts 3606 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 18:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 17:52 SpecFire wrote:
Thank you! very helpful
also, wtf, Warhound only 150/75? seems cheap.
It is very inexpensive. It massacres Stalkers too for only 25 additional gas investment. The only thing keeping the warhound from being OP imo is the lack of anti air. It is a SOLID unit otherwise.
They are gonna change it somehow IMO. Won't stay long as it is, specially at 2 food.
I don't even know if Immortals soft-counter them at all, with those missiles.Last edit: 2012-06-11 18:58:20 |
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| SmileZerg United States. June 11 2012 18:57. Posts 378 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 18:55 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 18:40 SmileZerg wrote:
On June 11 2012 18:38 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Reaper bunker rush will become alot more viable. (like beta?)
I don't see how. Reapers lost their special attack vs structures and even have lower damage vs light. Their only new bonus is additional health and regen, which has no synergy with a bunker at all.
When you place a bunker in the natural of Metalopolis cant you hit the mineral line in the main with vision on the high ground and the natural with 7 range? Isnt it also crucial that spinecrawler wont outrange bunker?
Hate to break it to you but the reported range 7 was a mistake, Reapers are only range 5 in HotS. It'll be 6 in a bunker, but still. |
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| D4V3Z02 Germany. June 11 2012 19:00. Posts 570 | Profile # |
Good news ), im sorry.
Isn't it wierd that vipers arent psionic? So Vipers wont be sniped when abducting tanks hm.Last edit: 2012-06-11 19:08:59 |
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| SmileZerg United States. June 11 2012 19:20. Posts 378 | Profile # |
| They aren't psionic? Really?? |
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| Rabiator Germany. June 11 2012 21:17. Posts 3232 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 06:20 sunprince wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:08 Rabiator wrote:
On June 11 2012 05:36 Tump wrote:
On June 11 2012 00:02 Rabiator wrote:
Feedback is lousy
As long as BCs are still subject to Feedback they remain useless in TvP and the same goes for Thors. One lousy (and relatively cheap) High Templar can fully neutralize a lot of those new and nifty energy based units. Consequently I think Feedback must be changed!
IM_MVP disagrees. Also, you ever hear of Ghosts, Scan, and micro?
Tell that to Protoss opponents who want to use their new energy units. Its kinda pointless to add so many of them when there is a cheaper hard counter unit in the game. Feedback should be changed to "psionic target only" IMO.
Why not simply change energy-using abilities to cooldown-based abilities where appropriate?
Because it doesnt work for units which have several abilities like the new Protoss ones or even BCs in HotS (they get a new ability, right?).
On June 11 2012 06:26 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:08 Rabiator wrote:
On June 11 2012 05:36 Tump wrote:
On June 11 2012 00:02 Rabiator wrote:
Feedback is lousy
As long as BCs are still subject to Feedback they remain useless in TvP and the same goes for Thors. One lousy (and relatively cheap) High Templar can fully neutralize a lot of those new and nifty energy based units. Consequently I think Feedback must be changed!
IM_MVP disagrees. Also, you ever hear of Ghosts, Scan, and micro?
Tell that to Protoss opponents who want to use their new energy units. Its kinda pointless to add so many of them when there is a cheaper hard counter unit in the game. Feedback should be changed to "psionic target only" IMO.
A lot of players are now yamatoing rocks before engagements so they have no energy to get feedback.
A. You HAVE TO research the Yamato upgrade first AND
B. you HAVE TO wait until all your BCs have 150+ energy ... stupid concept (same for Thors and not every map has rocks close to where they would be needed).
A much cheaper solution is to EMP the BCs yourself (what an awesome concept) ... twice obviously since EMP only removes 100 energy, but at least BCs can be stacked.
I hope this makes it crystal clear that Feedback MUST BE CHANGED. The new abilities are nice, but the real purpose for feedback is to counter Ghosts. HTs arent really the best way to deal with Medivacs, because they are above the terran bio army and only if the terran screws up (or tries to drop your base) can you really get them. |
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| Inkstorm United States. June 11 2012 22:52. Posts 10 | Profile # |
I have a couple questions regarding Widow Mines that I would be thankful to have answered.
1. What happens if a unit with a widow mine attached is killed before the timer runs out?
2. Can widow mines unbury after they have been activated?
3. Can widow mines attach to biological buildings (spine crawlers for instance)?
4. Scenario: A terran player buries a widow mine at his Zerg opponent's 4th expansion in order to prevent the eventual drone. Zerg sends a drone to plant a hatchery at the 4th which trips the mine right as it's getting close. The timer starts and the drone turns into a hatchery shortly afterwards. Does the spider mine stay on building to destroy it or what? |
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| Garmer June 11 2012 23:00. Posts 1126 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 21:17 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:20 sunprince wrote:
On June 11 2012 06:08 Rabiator wrote:
On June 11 2012 05:36 Tump wrote:
On June 11 2012 00:02 Rabiator wrote:
Feedback is lousy
As long as BCs are still subject to Feedback they remain useless in TvP and the same goes for Thors. One lousy (and relatively cheap) High Templar can fully neutralize a lot of those new and nifty energy based units. Consequently I think Feedback must be changed!
IM_MVP disagrees. Also, you ever hear of Ghosts, Scan, and micro?
Tell that to Protoss opponents who want to use their new energy units. Its kinda pointless to add so many of them when there is a cheaper hard counter unit in the game. Feedback should be changed to "psionic target only" IMO.
Why not simply change energy-using abilities to cooldown-based abilities where appropriate?
Because it doesnt work for units which have several abilities like the new Protoss ones or even BCs in HotS (they get a new ability, right?).
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:26 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
On June 11 2012 06:08 Rabiator wrote:
On June 11 2012 05:36 Tump wrote:
On June 11 2012 00:02 Rabiator wrote:
Feedback is lousy
As long as BCs are still subject to Feedback they remain useless in TvP and the same goes for Thors. One lousy (and relatively cheap) High Templar can fully neutralize a lot of those new and nifty energy based units. Consequently I think Feedback must be changed!
IM_MVP disagrees. Also, you ever hear of Ghosts, Scan, and micro?
Tell that to Protoss opponents who want to use their new energy units. Its kinda pointless to add so many of them when there is a cheaper hard counter unit in the game. Feedback should be changed to "psionic target only" IMO.
A lot of players are now yamatoing rocks before engagements so they have no energy to get feedback.
A. You HAVE TO research the Yamato upgrade first AND B. you HAVE TO wait until all your BCs have 150+ energy ... stupid concept (same for Thors and not every map has rocks close to where they would be needed). A much cheaper solution is to EMP the BCs yourself (what an awesome concept) ... twice obviously since EMP only removes 100 energy, but at least BCs can be stacked. I hope this makes it crystal clear that Feedback MUST BE CHANGED. The new abilities are nice, but the real purpose for feedback is to counter Ghosts. HTs arent really the best way to deal with Medivacs, because they are above the terran bio army and only if the terran screws up (or tries to drop your base) can you really get them.
yamato is 125 dude... |
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| Zato-1 Chile. June 11 2012 23:15. Posts 2577 | Profile Blog # |
On June 11 2012 21:17 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:20 sunprince wrote:
On June 11 2012 06:08 Rabiator wrote:
On June 11 2012 05:36 Tump wrote:
On June 11 2012 00:02 Rabiator wrote:
Feedback is lousy
As long as BCs are still subject to Feedback they remain useless in TvP and the same goes for Thors. One lousy (and relatively cheap) High Templar can fully neutralize a lot of those new and nifty energy based units. Consequently I think Feedback must be changed!
IM_MVP disagrees. Also, you ever hear of Ghosts, Scan, and micro?
Tell that to Protoss opponents who want to use their new energy units. Its kinda pointless to add so many of them when there is a cheaper hard counter unit in the game. Feedback should be changed to "psionic target only" IMO.
Why not simply change energy-using abilities to cooldown-based abilities where appropriate?
Because it doesnt work for units which have several abilities like the new Protoss ones or even BCs in HotS (they get a new ability, right?).
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 06:26 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
On June 11 2012 06:08 Rabiator wrote:
On June 11 2012 05:36 Tump wrote:
On June 11 2012 00:02 Rabiator wrote:
Feedback is lousy
As long as BCs are still subject to Feedback they remain useless in TvP and the same goes for Thors. One lousy (and relatively cheap) High Templar can fully neutralize a lot of those new and nifty energy based units. Consequently I think Feedback must be changed!
IM_MVP disagrees. Also, you ever hear of Ghosts, Scan, and micro?
Tell that to Protoss opponents who want to use their new energy units. Its kinda pointless to add so many of them when there is a cheaper hard counter unit in the game. Feedback should be changed to "psionic target only" IMO.
A lot of players are now yamatoing rocks before engagements so they have no energy to get feedback.
A. You HAVE TO research the Yamato upgrade first AND
B. you HAVE TO wait until all your BCs have 150+ energy ... stupid concept (same for Thors and not every map has rocks close to where they would be needed).
A much cheaper solution is to EMP the BCs yourself (what an awesome concept) ... twice obviously since EMP only removes 100 energy, but at least BCs can be stacked. The new abilities are nice, but the real purpose for feedback is to counter Ghosts. HTs arent really the best way to deal with Medivacs, because they are above the terran bio army and only if the terran screws up (or tries to drop your base) can you really get them.
This thread is about HotS, complaining about how WoL units interact with other WoL units has no place here.
On-topic, I find the Warhound and Battle Hellion so weird for PvT... On the one hand, they should wipe the floor with Chargelot / Stalker. However, I find them to be super susceptible to Force Fields, especially the Battle Hellions, a bit like pure Roach armies in ZvP only more so... Terrans usually deal with Force fields by kiting away from sentries with Stim until Ghosts come out, and if they get caught they can load into a Medivac and hopefully get out, but a Warhound / Hellion army wouldn't have Medivacs and would be pretty gas-heavy, delaying higher tech units.
Warhounds and Hellions also look like they'd have a lot more trouble than MMM against cannons, especially if P has a Templar or two to support them; they also look pretty bad for base trade scenarios. Could we see P getting mass cannons in PvT like Zerg does with Spine Crawlers in ZvP? A meching Terran can always get siege tanks vs. cannons, but Tempests sound like a pretty strong late game answer to a T slow push.Last edit: 2012-06-11 23:17:27 |
| | Ranking of SC2 Matchups by how fun they are to watch: ZvP 10/10 | PvT 8/10 | PvP 7/10 | TvZ 5/10 | TvT 4/10 | ZvZ 1/10 |  |
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| s3rp Germany. June 11 2012 23:21. Posts 2767 | Profile # |
I just noticed something Reapers don't 2 shot Lings with 7 damage against Light anymore . What the hell why ? Even a group of Lings on Creep would shutdown Reapers completely especially not to mention Queens still exist.
They take away speed , the build damage , nerf the damage overall considerably and all they get is an upgrade that is useless later on and -5 seconds buildtime. They're not making Reapers useful again they're making them even worse and more useless I mean 7 range seems to be false so i don't see any reason to ever build a Reaper again ever beyond 5 minutes into the game. The 10 HP i don't see how that all all can compensate they still only have 60 HP thats not alot.
edit: I noticed something else Reapers would not 3 shot SCV's anymore if the deal 2*7 damage because 3 shots of that would only deal 42 damage ...
Only if 7 range is actually correct Reapers would be a useful unit ...Last edit: 2012-06-11 23:37:22 |
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| QqVVJ Canada. June 11 2012 23:31. Posts 1 | Profile # |
| love the MommaCore, gunna make nexus fist possible in all matchups. and gateway expos possible in PvZ!! |
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| TeeTS Germany. June 11 2012 23:32. Posts 1729 | Profile # |
So, after finally having the time to carefully read those stats...
The Reaper change will make them much more easy to use (range 7, hello? isi kiting for everyone!)
Otherwise the terran units are simply boring. Battle hellion and warhound are just plain strong into your face units, nothing tricky, sneaky about them. I would've loved to see an interesting spellcaster for terran instead. Ghosts are cool and useful, but Raven are just bullshit, I truly hate them.
Zerg and Protoss have got very interesting spellcasters and the tempest.... I think a 22 range unit with a slow shooting high dmg shot can be really cool, maybe really imbalanced. I'm very interested to see how it's gonna work out. The Mothership Core looks way too powerful. You'll get much sooner than many may think right now. Especially the energy recharge is insanely good. I think this will have to be fixed during the beta.
The Viper may also have to be changed. I don't think Zerg need a second unit that manipulates enemy movement directly (fungal growth!). This will turn out to be way too much, I'm very very sure at this point.
Overall it looks good. I would love blizzard for thrashing the warhound or the raven and come up with a new spellcaster for terran. Everything else will turn out in the beta, I think. |
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| s3rp Germany. June 11 2012 23:33. Posts 2767 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 23:32 TeeTS wrote:
So, after finally having the time to carefully read those stats...
The Reaper change will make them much more easy to use (range 7, hello? isi kiting for everyone!)
Otherwise the terran units are simply boring. Battle hellion and warhound are just plain strong into your face units, nothing tricky, sneaky about them. I would've loved to see an interesting spellcaster for terran instead. Ghosts are cool and useful, but Raven are just bullshit, I truly hate them.
Zerg and Protoss have got very interesting spellcasters and the tempest.... I think a 22 range unit with a slow shooting high dmg shot can be really cool, maybe really imbalanced. I'm very interested to see how it's gonna work out. The Mothership Core looks way too powerful. You'll get much sooner than many may think right now. Especially the energy recharge is insanely good. I think this will have to be fixed during the beta.
The Viper may also have to be changed. I don't think Zerg need a second unit that manipulates enemy movement directly (fungal growth!). This will turn out to be way too much, I'm very very sure at this point.
Overall it looks good. I would love blizzard for thrashing the warhound or the raven and come up with a new spellcaster for terran. Everything else will turn out in the beta, I think.
This is wrong from what i've heard they still have the same range.Last edit: 2012-06-11 23:34:07 |
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| TeeTS Germany. June 11 2012 23:45. Posts 1729 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 23:33 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 23:32 TeeTS wrote:
So, after finally having the time to carefully read those stats...
The Reaper change will make them much more easy to use (range 7, hello? isi kiting for everyone!)
Otherwise the terran units are simply boring. Battle hellion and warhound are just plain strong into your face units, nothing tricky, sneaky about them. I would've loved to see an interesting spellcaster for terran instead. Ghosts are cool and useful, but Raven are just bullshit, I truly hate them.
Zerg and Protoss have got very interesting spellcasters and the tempest.... I think a 22 range unit with a slow shooting high dmg shot can be really cool, maybe really imbalanced. I'm very interested to see how it's gonna work out. The Mothership Core looks way too powerful. You'll get much sooner than many may think right now. Especially the energy recharge is insanely good. I think this will have to be fixed during the beta.
The Viper may also have to be changed. I don't think Zerg need a second unit that manipulates enemy movement directly (fungal growth!). This will turn out to be way too much, I'm very very sure at this point.
Overall it looks good. I would love blizzard for thrashing the warhound or the raven and come up with a new spellcaster for terran. Everything else will turn out in the beta, I think.
This is wrong from what i've heard they still have the same range.
then the OP should change this!
Reaper – Light, Biological
Requirement: Barracks w/ Tech Lab
Minerals: 50
Gas: 50
Supply: 1
Build Time: 40
Health: 60
Speed: 2.95
Base Armor: 0
Attack Damage:2 x 4 (7 vs. Light)
Attack Range: 7
Attack Delay: 1.1
Upgrade: Combat Drugs
really irritating! |
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| Noocta France. June 11 2012 23:48. Posts 8620 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 23:33 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 23:32 TeeTS wrote:
So, after finally having the time to carefully read those stats...
The Reaper change will make them much more easy to use (range 7, hello? isi kiting for everyone!)
Otherwise the terran units are simply boring. Battle hellion and warhound are just plain strong into your face units, nothing tricky, sneaky about them. I would've loved to see an interesting spellcaster for terran instead. Ghosts are cool and useful, but Raven are just bullshit, I truly hate them.
Zerg and Protoss have got very interesting spellcasters and the tempest.... I think a 22 range unit with a slow shooting high dmg shot can be really cool, maybe really imbalanced. I'm very interested to see how it's gonna work out. The Mothership Core looks way too powerful. You'll get much sooner than many may think right now. Especially the energy recharge is insanely good. I think this will have to be fixed during the beta.
The Viper may also have to be changed. I don't think Zerg need a second unit that manipulates enemy movement directly (fungal growth!). This will turn out to be way too much, I'm very very sure at this point.
Overall it looks good. I would love blizzard for thrashing the warhound or the raven and come up with a new spellcaster for terran. Everything else will turn out in the beta, I think.
This is wrong from what i've heard they still have the same range.
They will need to buff their range or something anyway.
Reaper unable to kite queens make them uselness pretty much.
And you can't even bunker rush that effectively with reaper now that they don't have the building attack. Last edit: 2012-06-11 23:52:33 |
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| s3rp Germany. June 12 2012 00:04. Posts 2767 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 23:48 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 23:33 s3rp wrote:
On June 11 2012 23:32 TeeTS wrote:
So, after finally having the time to carefully read those stats...
The Reaper change will make them much more easy to use (range 7, hello? isi kiting for everyone!)
Otherwise the terran units are simply boring. Battle hellion and warhound are just plain strong into your face units, nothing tricky, sneaky about them. I would've loved to see an interesting spellcaster for terran instead. Ghosts are cool and useful, but Raven are just bullshit, I truly hate them.
Zerg and Protoss have got very interesting spellcasters and the tempest.... I think a 22 range unit with a slow shooting high dmg shot can be really cool, maybe really imbalanced. I'm very interested to see how it's gonna work out. The Mothership Core looks way too powerful. You'll get much sooner than many may think right now. Especially the energy recharge is insanely good. I think this will have to be fixed during the beta.
The Viper may also have to be changed. I don't think Zerg need a second unit that manipulates enemy movement directly (fungal growth!). This will turn out to be way too much, I'm very very sure at this point.
Overall it looks good. I would love blizzard for thrashing the warhound or the raven and come up with a new spellcaster for terran. Everything else will turn out in the beta, I think.
This is wrong from what i've heard they still have the same range.
They will need to buff their range or something anyway. Reaper unable to kite queens make them uselness pretty much. And you can't even bunker rush that effectively with reaper now that they don't have the building attack.
You couldn't even kill Creep Tumors effectivly anymore with a few Reapers because they would need 4 shots for 1 Tumor.
Last edit: 2012-06-12 00:06:11 |
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| ilikeLIONZ Germany. June 12 2012 00:08. Posts 425 | Profile # |
| tbh: the viper just seems incredibly imbalanced with its hook ability. |
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| Jermstuddog United States. June 12 2012 00:37. Posts 2051 | Profile Blog # |
On June 12 2012 00:08 ilikeLIONZ wrote:
tbh: the viper just seems incredibly imbalanced with its hook ability.
About as imba as infestors with neural parasite.
Amirite? |
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