Do 14 CC ( it's mainly in french but the BO is in english => http://www.starcraft2-bo.com/builder/view-bo?boid=2EKEOG ) Go marines marauders + fast upgrades Make a ton of medivacs Attack him while making 1 double drop in at least 3 of his bases ( remember that your main army must remain scary otherwise he wont care at all and will just fungal you to death ) You are going to lose your main army but its ok all his bases are fucked hold his counter attack att all cost ( you can even wall with a PF :D ) make a final push GG
rly ?
Clarity_nl Netherlands. June 10 2012 01:19. Posts 3283
On June 10 2012 00:59 algue wrote: Do 14 CC ( it's mainly in french but the BO is in english => http://www.starcraft2-bo.com/builder/view-bo?boid=2EKEOG ) Go marines marauders + fast upgrades Make a ton of medivacs Attack him while making 1 double drop in at least 3 of his bases ( remember that your main army must remain scary otherwise he wont care at all and will just fungal you to death ) You are going to lose your main army but its ok all his bases are fucked hold his counter attack att all cost ( you can even wall with a PF :D ) make a final push GG
Not only is this terrible advice, it's also completely irrelevant to the game posted in the OP, congratulations.
More gg, more skill.
CptCutter United Kingdom. June 10 2012 01:33. Posts 355
On June 09 2012 23:49 Bonneyi wrote: Dont be angry at me because i whine its just that i loose to the same shit eveeeery single game, and it just annoys me that zerg is too damn easy to win with in this match up at the moment, starting the game i allready knew i was going to loose as i loose to every zerg i encounter, the same goes for toss.
For all the things I pointed out, this is by far the thing holding you back most. Fix your damn attitude, the game is fine, it's in your head. Broodlords didn't lose you the game, it was lost way before that.
On June 09 2012 23:52 Bonneyi wrote: By the way i didnt ask, if im inside the game while playing against the guy, how do i know that im ahead ?
That's a complicated question, it's really a combination of things, but the main one I would say is the expansion count. Zerg is generally a base ahead of Terran (which is standard).
Other things can be current army size, upgrades etc etc.
you cant tell whether your ahead because of that. to be honest, dont even bother thinking of whether your ahead or not. i mean, lets say you know your definitely ahead, does that mean its ok to sit back and relax? no, of course it doesnt. its not even worth thinking about.
On Topic: the brood lords were completely the least of your problems. your macro was terrible. your decision making was terrible. your SCOUTING was non-existent. you dont even understand why you open hellions early game, so why do it? you dont have any sense of army composition.
The holes in your BASIC play are so large i could literally drive a bus through them. Do you even watch your replays? because the first step to improving is understanding where you went wrong. Asking people on here can give you the right direction but they cannot make you take the first step to improving.
what i suggest is you find another TvZ replay, look through it carefully and list all of the mistakes you think you made and post it here with the replay and i will have another look through it and make comments.
I help a number of platinum and below friends of mine with terran, but i dont tell them exactly what they are doing wrong because then they would not learn and improve.
Im a top 8 masters player with a 71-40 record for this season against top masters players in TvZ. I am no where near as knowledgeable as some, but i have faith in my builds being able to consistently beat low GM players. by the way, i do not open with hellions at all.
Clarity_nl Netherlands. June 10 2012 01:40. Posts 3283
On June 09 2012 23:49 Bonneyi wrote: Dont be angry at me because i whine its just that i loose to the same shit eveeeery single game, and it just annoys me that zerg is too damn easy to win with in this match up at the moment, starting the game i allready knew i was going to loose as i loose to every zerg i encounter, the same goes for toss.
For all the things I pointed out, this is by far the thing holding you back most. Fix your damn attitude, the game is fine, it's in your head. Broodlords didn't lose you the game, it was lost way before that.
On June 09 2012 23:52 Bonneyi wrote: By the way i didnt ask, if im inside the game while playing against the guy, how do i know that im ahead ?
That's a complicated question, it's really a combination of things, but the main one I would say is the expansion count. Zerg is generally a base ahead of Terran (which is standard).
Other things can be current army size, upgrades etc etc.
you cant tell whether your ahead because of that. to be honest, dont even bother thinking of whether your ahead or not. i mean, lets say you know your definitely ahead, does that mean its ok to sit back and relax? no, of course it doesnt. its not even worth thinking about.
I'd say the #1 reason people lose games they should've won is because they didn't realize they were ahead.
If you're aware that you're winning, it's much easier to secure your lead by, for example, double expanding. Or in other cases (although I wouldn't recommend it), doing a kill sequence.
More gg, more skill.
mastergriggy United States. June 10 2012 01:42. Posts 1297
On June 09 2012 23:20 Bonneyi wrote: At this point in not even angry im more dissapointed... Terran games should just finish once the game exceeds the 20 minute mark... Any way before zergs start saying that im whining ill post a replay of the game which i played just a few minutes ago.
Was on top of the zerg for the full game upgrades everything was going well for me and then gglords appeared and there was nothing i was able to do. I am currently in platinum after nearly 2000 games....Im not even going to go there, any way, tell me what i should do in order to kill the zerg before he gets the ultimate killing machine, the gg lords...
On June 09 2012 23:49 Bonneyi wrote: Dont be angry at me because i whine its just that i loose to the same shit eveeeery single game, and it just annoys me that zerg is too damn easy to win with in this match up at the moment, starting the game i allready knew i was going to loose as i loose to every zerg i encounter, the same goes for toss.
For all the things I pointed out, this is by far the thing holding you back most. Fix your damn attitude, the game is fine, it's in your head. Broodlords didn't lose you the game, it was lost way before that.
On June 09 2012 23:52 Bonneyi wrote: By the way i didnt ask, if im inside the game while playing against the guy, how do i know that im ahead ?
That's a complicated question, it's really a combination of things, but the main one I would say is the expansion count. Zerg is generally a base ahead of Terran (which is standard).
Other things can be current army size, upgrades etc etc.
you cant tell whether your ahead because of that. to be honest, dont even bother thinking of whether your ahead or not. i mean, lets say you know your definitely ahead, does that mean its ok to sit back and relax? no, of course it doesnt. its not even worth thinking about.
I'd say the #1 reason people lose games they should've won is because they didn't realize they were ahead.
If you're aware that you're winning, it's much easier to secure your lead by, for example, double expanding. Or in other cases (although I wouldn't recommend it), doing a kill sequence.
you can be ahead in different senses you know? you can be ahead economically but behind in your army, or the other way round. but whether your ahead overall like what your suggesting is misleading because of what i just said. If your 3 saturated bases against a player with 2 saturated bases. why would you ever attack even though its clear your ahead?
all of this comes with experience, and when your playing a game you should not be thinking about whether your ahead or not, especially if you entered the game thinking your going to lose.
Last edit: 2012-06-10 01:47:05
Clarity_nl Netherlands. June 10 2012 01:52. Posts 3283
On June 09 2012 23:49 Bonneyi wrote: Dont be angry at me because i whine its just that i loose to the same shit eveeeery single game, and it just annoys me that zerg is too damn easy to win with in this match up at the moment, starting the game i allready knew i was going to loose as i loose to every zerg i encounter, the same goes for toss.
For all the things I pointed out, this is by far the thing holding you back most. Fix your damn attitude, the game is fine, it's in your head. Broodlords didn't lose you the game, it was lost way before that.
On June 09 2012 23:52 Bonneyi wrote: By the way i didnt ask, if im inside the game while playing against the guy, how do i know that im ahead ?
That's a complicated question, it's really a combination of things, but the main one I would say is the expansion count. Zerg is generally a base ahead of Terran (which is standard).
Other things can be current army size, upgrades etc etc.
you cant tell whether your ahead because of that. to be honest, dont even bother thinking of whether your ahead or not. i mean, lets say you know your definitely ahead, does that mean its ok to sit back and relax? no, of course it doesnt. its not even worth thinking about.
I'd say the #1 reason people lose games they should've won is because they didn't realize they were ahead.
If you're aware that you're winning, it's much easier to secure your lead by, for example, double expanding. Or in other cases (although I wouldn't recommend it), doing a kill sequence.
you can be ahead in different senses you know? you can be ahead economically but behind in your army, or the other way round. but whether your ahead overall like what your suggesting is misleading because of what i just said. If your 3 saturated bases against a player with 2 saturated bases. why would you ever attack even though its clear your ahead?
all of this comes with experience, and when your playing a game you should not be thinking about whether your ahead or not, especially if you entered the game thinking your going to lose.
I'm aware you can be ahead in different senses, yes. My point is that it's good to identify (even within the game itself) in what ways you are ahead. Where your "edge" lies so to speak. Then you can press that. If you're up a fully saturated base then you max out while denying your opponents expansion, if you're ahead in upgrades then you attack as your next round of upgrades finishes, if you have a giant army and your opponent doesn't but you're behind in eco you should attack ASAP.
My comment was more about being ahead in general.
Realizing if you're ahead and in what ways while you're playing is very important because it affects what you're going to do next. I don't see why it's "not even worth thinking about"
How could you say that "How do I know if I'm ahead" is not a legitimate question?
More gg, more skill.
CptCutter United Kingdom. June 10 2012 01:58. Posts 355
On June 09 2012 23:49 Bonneyi wrote: Dont be angry at me because i whine its just that i loose to the same shit eveeeery single game, and it just annoys me that zerg is too damn easy to win with in this match up at the moment, starting the game i allready knew i was going to loose as i loose to every zerg i encounter, the same goes for toss.
For all the things I pointed out, this is by far the thing holding you back most. Fix your damn attitude, the game is fine, it's in your head. Broodlords didn't lose you the game, it was lost way before that.
On June 09 2012 23:52 Bonneyi wrote: By the way i didnt ask, if im inside the game while playing against the guy, how do i know that im ahead ?
That's a complicated question, it's really a combination of things, but the main one I would say is the expansion count. Zerg is generally a base ahead of Terran (which is standard).
Other things can be current army size, upgrades etc etc.
you cant tell whether your ahead because of that. to be honest, dont even bother thinking of whether your ahead or not. i mean, lets say you know your definitely ahead, does that mean its ok to sit back and relax? no, of course it doesnt. its not even worth thinking about.
I'd say the #1 reason people lose games they should've won is because they didn't realize they were ahead.
If you're aware that you're winning, it's much easier to secure your lead by, for example, double expanding. Or in other cases (although I wouldn't recommend it), doing a kill sequence.
you can be ahead in different senses you know? you can be ahead economically but behind in your army, or the other way round. but whether your ahead overall like what your suggesting is misleading because of what i just said. If your 3 saturated bases against a player with 2 saturated bases. why would you ever attack even though its clear your ahead?
all of this comes with experience, and when your playing a game you should not be thinking about whether your ahead or not, especially if you entered the game thinking your going to lose.
I'm aware you can be ahead in different senses, yes. My point is that it's good to identify (even within the game itself) in what ways you are ahead. Where your "edge" lies so to speak. Then you can press that. If you're up a fully saturated base then you max out while denying your opponents expansion, if you're ahead in upgrades then you attack as your next round of upgrades finishes, if you have a giant army and your opponent doesn't but you're behind in eco you should attack ASAP.
My comment was more about being ahead in general.
Realizing if you're ahead and in what ways while you're playing is very important because it affects what you're going to do next. I don't see why it's "not even worth thinking about"
How could you say that "How do I know if I'm ahead" is not a legitimate question?
well it isnt, you talk about pushing the bounderies when your ahead. you can push the bounderies like denying expansions or taking your own expansion without being ahead. Being behind in a game does not mean you cant do any of these things.
The question about being ahead is completely irrelevant and you should be thinking about what you can do next to win than pondering the games ultimate question of whether your ahead or not.
Clarity_nl Netherlands. June 10 2012 02:02. Posts 3283
On June 09 2012 23:49 Bonneyi wrote: Dont be angry at me because i whine its just that i loose to the same shit eveeeery single game, and it just annoys me that zerg is too damn easy to win with in this match up at the moment, starting the game i allready knew i was going to loose as i loose to every zerg i encounter, the same goes for toss.
For all the things I pointed out, this is by far the thing holding you back most. Fix your damn attitude, the game is fine, it's in your head. Broodlords didn't lose you the game, it was lost way before that.
On June 09 2012 23:52 Bonneyi wrote: By the way i didnt ask, if im inside the game while playing against the guy, how do i know that im ahead ?
That's a complicated question, it's really a combination of things, but the main one I would say is the expansion count. Zerg is generally a base ahead of Terran (which is standard).
Other things can be current army size, upgrades etc etc.
you cant tell whether your ahead because of that. to be honest, dont even bother thinking of whether your ahead or not. i mean, lets say you know your definitely ahead, does that mean its ok to sit back and relax? no, of course it doesnt. its not even worth thinking about.
I'd say the #1 reason people lose games they should've won is because they didn't realize they were ahead.
If you're aware that you're winning, it's much easier to secure your lead by, for example, double expanding. Or in other cases (although I wouldn't recommend it), doing a kill sequence.
you can be ahead in different senses you know? you can be ahead economically but behind in your army, or the other way round. but whether your ahead overall like what your suggesting is misleading because of what i just said. If your 3 saturated bases against a player with 2 saturated bases. why would you ever attack even though its clear your ahead?
all of this comes with experience, and when your playing a game you should not be thinking about whether your ahead or not, especially if you entered the game thinking your going to lose.
I'm aware you can be ahead in different senses, yes. My point is that it's good to identify (even within the game itself) in what ways you are ahead. Where your "edge" lies so to speak. Then you can press that. If you're up a fully saturated base then you max out while denying your opponents expansion, if you're ahead in upgrades then you attack as your next round of upgrades finishes, if you have a giant army and your opponent doesn't but you're behind in eco you should attack ASAP.
My comment was more about being ahead in general.
Realizing if you're ahead and in what ways while you're playing is very important because it affects what you're going to do next. I don't see why it's "not even worth thinking about"
How could you say that "How do I know if I'm ahead" is not a legitimate question?
well it isnt, you talk about pushing the bounderies when your ahead. you can push the bounderies like denying expansions or taking your own expansion without being ahead. Being behind in a game does not mean you cant do any of these things.
The question about being ahead is completely irrelevant and you should be thinking about what you can do next to win than pondering the games ultimate question of whether your ahead or not.
If you have an edge in both economy and army and are aware of it, you can double expand and secure the win, whereas in a game in the same position where you are both equal you would not be able to pull this off. Knowing who is ahead or behind in any given situation helps you reach better and more informed decisions.
If it's not obvious who is ahead at the time then you don't spend time pondering it, but not thinking about it entirely is in my opinion a big mistake.
edit: In the same way, if you know you are behind you cannot simply continue on as usual, seeing as you will lose. You start taking risks trying to get back into the game.
I feel like you overall played okay. There were long periods of not building any units, especially in the early game. In your opening, there should never be any times where you have money but arent producing units.
This is the most important thing for you though, visit http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787, a thread written by filtersc explaining exactly what you need. If you really want to beat zerg, just try to emulate him as much as possible. Try to meet his benchmarks: Benchmarks 50 Scv's @ 10 minutes 65 Scv's @ 12:30 Third Landed @ 12:40 9 Barracks by 14 Minutes +2, +1 Infantry @ 14-15 Minutes Combat Shield Finished 200 Supply Army @ 14 Minutes
. I recommend watching his entire series, but skip to around the 24 minute mark for his first game versus zerg who tries to baneling bust. Skip to the 37 minute mark for his 10 minute push timing using hellions, marines, marauders, stim and medivacs where he outright wins the game.
I do a very similar style to what is explained above and about 60% of the time you can kill a zerg with this. About 80% of the time you can kill a third, crippling the zerg. This in turn delays his tech, etc.
Last edit: 2012-06-10 02:09:20
Clarity_nl Netherlands. June 10 2012 02:14. Posts 3283
On June 10 2012 02:05 SuperPro wrote: I feel like you overall played okay. There were long periods of not building any units, especially in the early game. In your opening, there should never be any times where you have money but arent producing units.
This is the most important thing for you though, visit http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787, a thread written by filtersc explaining exactly what you need. If you really want to beat zerg, just try to emulate him as much as possible. Try to meet his benchmarks: Benchmarks 50 Scv's @ 10 minutes 65 Scv's @ 12:30 Third Landed @ 12:40 9 Barracks by 14 Minutes +2, +1 Infantry @ 14-15 Minutes Combat Shield Finished 200 Supply Army @ 14 Minutes
. I recommend watching his entire series, but skip to around the 24 minute mark for his first game versus zerg who tries to baneling bust. Skip to the 37 minute mark for his 10 minute push timing using hellions, marines, marauders, stim and medivacs where he outright wins the game.
I do a very similar style to what is explained above and about 60% of the time you can kill a zerg with this. About 80% of the time you can kill a third, crippling the zerg. This in turn delays his tech, etc.
that build looks terrible. he completely delays his upgrades for so long its unbelievable. he seriously does want to just outright die to quicker mutas or a more organised baneling bust. marauders were completely unnecessary and ate into gas that could have been used for upgrades.
conz United Kingdom. June 10 2012 02:41. Posts 160
A lot of people will say this but, just macro better, this means just playing more and practising your execution. At plat level of play most and in fact nearly all players won't keep up with worker production and will float there money so using scans throughout the game to consistency have a peak a army count and tech is something you should do, that's not good advice for a master player but information is far more important than anything in rts games.
Scouting should be your #1 priority always, if at any point in the game you're in the dark scan, drop, poke, send a viking out anything to know what's up. Zerg can't support BL/INF off 2-3 base so always try to get the 4th timing to prepare. Also if you see broodlords pop and you're not prepared drop him everywhere, this in itself will tear a part most players that can't play higher than 100 apm but buy you time most importantly.
And everytime you lose it's your fault, because your opponent was better and there is no exception, way I look at the game is until you're midmasters balance doesn't actually matter because you'd always be able to go back and look at the game and find something you did wrong or poorly and improve, you shouldn't worry about balance until you're at the very highest level of play as it'll effect the rate you improve, good luck.
TvZ is pretty easy. You just need to deny bases! Move your first scouting SCV to his 3rd and scout his 3rd Base timing with it. Then go for your standard 3 siege tank push and try to kill at least his 3rd with it. TvZ is just about killing bases/sniping tech to slowly kill the Z. Zerg has nothing before lategame, the only frightening thing before Hivetech is a HUGE Mutaball, what isn't going to happen if the Terran isn't afk. If you are too passive, you just get crushed with Ling/Infestor(+HiveTech). Agression is the way to go. I'm bad and my macro is horrible! but I have a 69% overall winrate since SC2 Release in TvZ (~400 replays) so I think I understand the matchup and I would win against this Plat Zerg EZPZ.
Last edit: 2012-06-10 02:50:37
halfies United Kingdom. June 10 2012 02:51. Posts 318
On June 10 2012 00:30 Bonneyi wrote: How did he outplay me? i made a lot of mistakes in the oppening and so did he, its just that i didnt have a good tech to fight with his broodlords thats all.
Saying this, what do i need to fight Broodlord infestor? Marine ghost medivac? I am clueless about lategame tvz ...
that might be your problem. Vikings and Thors are good vs broods, you just have to watch your Vikings dont get caught somewhere silly and fungaled to death.
On June 10 2012 02:05 SuperPro wrote: I feel like you overall played okay. There were long periods of not building any units, especially in the early game. In your opening, there should never be any times where you have money but arent producing units.
This is the most important thing for you though, visit http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787, a thread written by filtersc explaining exactly what you need. If you really want to beat zerg, just try to emulate him as much as possible. Try to meet his benchmarks: Benchmarks 50 Scv's @ 10 minutes 65 Scv's @ 12:30 Third Landed @ 12:40 9 Barracks by 14 Minutes +2, +1 Infantry @ 14-15 Minutes Combat Shield Finished 200 Supply Army @ 14 Minutes
. I recommend watching his entire series, but skip to around the 24 minute mark for his first game versus zerg who tries to baneling bust. Skip to the 37 minute mark for his 10 minute push timing using hellions, marines, marauders, stim and medivacs where he outright wins the game.
I do a very similar style to what is explained above and about 60% of the time you can kill a zerg with this. About 80% of the time you can kill a third, crippling the zerg. This in turn delays his tech, etc.
that build looks terrible. he completely delays his upgrades for so long its unbelievable. he seriously does want to just outright die to quicker mutas or a more organised baneling bust. marauders were completely unnecessary and ate into gas that could have been used for upgrades.
Okay then mr. know it all, let us try a far better build, the forgg build. Opening hellions, while teching to banshee, then going on double upgrades before 8 minute mark. After this we finally start 5 barracks, having to hold roach all ins/mutas/baneling busts with only hellions, 4 marines and banshees. Sounds easy enough for a novice who has nowhere near as good of micro as forgg. I gave him a simple build with simple steps to win against zerg, what MORE DO YOU WANT? At the very least, this is a good place for him to start.
By the way, you could easily crush ANY baneling bust with this. Do you not see the fucking marauders? Do you not see the bunker? Do you not see the hellions? Did you not see him HOLD A BANELING BUST? You have got to be fucking kidding me, you come in, bash someone for offering help and then offer none of your own, just wonderful, just wonderful.
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