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| rezzan Sweden. June 10 2012 07:11. Posts 296 | Profile # |
Hello TL- i didnt see anything like this on the forum so hopefully iant double posting!
I started playing BW again last week, and with the new season on ICCUP I really wanna get out there and try to get some higher rankings !
thus, i turn to you.
I am normally a Zerg platinum player in Sc2 ,but i really dont play that game anymore and I'd rather play BW since thats a very neat game that i first got my hands on back in 1998.
so heres the deal: (im protoss in BW D level-ish 800-1000~ atm., )
Ive played about 800 sc2 games, so I'd say i know the fundamentals or Idea of how to play starcraft.
but starcraft:Bw is something different ,so all my theories and tricks wont really work here since the games buildorders are ...unique..
so, ive played about 5 1v1's and about 40+ 2v2s and i was clearly alot better in 2v2.
I got a very good coach ,but i still need to be able to get the idea of how to think ingame- like buildorders, counters etc.
since i really have no idea of when to take my gas, my cybernetics-core and how many gates i need.
let me give you a general idea of what im thinking and id like you to help me perfect it!
i usally go 10/15 gate.
gas at 13 (should i not forget it lol)
and core at 14, get the range upgrade for Goons first gas possible,
after first 100gas goes to citadel of adun.
and thats where i get stuck. i always forget to make the darn roboticsbay and thus leaving me without observers or any sort of map controll, but i do take my templar for some stupid reason.
so what i really need,is a general idea ,not a build..but some "guidelines" that I can follow and use as a first step to improvement.
So if theres anything you can do to help me, dont hesitate to leave a reply!
sidenote: i stream pretty much everyday and im watching the chat so if you want then jump in and give me some "theorycraft" after the match im in and say what i did wrong and right or such  im all up for any help that I can get.
(http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/rezzan)
EDIT: (2012-06-12)
Wow, didnt think i'd get this much response, thanks alot to everybody for contributing with whatever ideas you may have! its a good read ! , Last edit: 2012-06-12 20:22:47 |
| | My friends, this is our final hour. Not all of us may survive the coming conflict. Yet, death may be a blessing should we fail here. - Tassadar |
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| olabaz United States. June 10 2012 08:41. Posts 185 | Profile Blog # | |
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| Miwyfe England. June 10 2012 09:25. Posts 77 | Profile # |
Welcome.
Heres a dangerously simplistic but trying to be noob friendly summary:
PvT
1 zealot then 3 Dragoons with range.
Expand.
Add a gate and get more Goons and also get Observers.
Expand.
Add two more gates.
Get all the other tech buildings (citadel, forge, templar archives and star, arbiter tribunal).
Go up to 10 to 12 gates.
Army=Zealots, Goons, Observers, Arbiters.
Attack into the Terran army with Speed zealots, Goons, 2 or 3 arbiters with Stasis, and +1 ground weapons. You want to engage him in an open area as he approaches your base.
Your in the late game now;
Expand to a 4th and 5th base.
Add another group of gates at the 5th base so that you have 20 to 25 gates in total.
Get more forges and more weapon and armour upgrades.
Get the recall upgrade for arbiters.
PvZ
Forge expand
Star
+1 ground attack
Citadel and 2nd gate
Templar Archives
Go up to 6 gates
Get robo and observers
Expand
Go up to 12 gates
Army=Speed Zeals and Sairs to begin with. Walk all the way to Zerg base with around 8 zealots and 6 sairs, then retreat.
Next get 4 to 6 high templar and psi storm.
Then get 3 rounds of goons from 6 gateways and observers.
Soon you will have around 10 or so Speed Zeals, 20 or so Goons, 8 or so HT, 3 or so observers. You attack into a Zerg base with this army.
Your now in the late game;
Expand to a 4th and 5th base.
Army composition is more zealot archon and HT.
Make a robo at your 4th base and make reavers there.
PvP
2 zealots then Dragoons with range.
robo and observer then reaver.
2 more gates.
Expand.
Go to 4 gates and citadel, templar archives, forge.
Go to 6 gates.
Expand
Get 8 to 10 gates.
Army=12 or so Goons and 1 observer, 1 shuttle, 1 reaver. Attack enemy natural.
Now retreat and expand. Get more goons and 1 more reaver, then more observers. Get speed zeals and then 2 archons.
Get more goons, zealots and HT with psi storm.
Attack as you take your 3rd base.
Your now in late game;
Get more expansions.
Get more attack and armour upgrades.
Get more gates.
This guide is designed to give you a very very rough guidleine to start from as you requested.
To learn the game takes time, watch a few recent games in the Small Vod Thread.
Experiment! Play around! This is part of the fun. GoodluckLast edit: 2012-06-10 22:19:04 |
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| rezzan Sweden. June 10 2012 11:59. Posts 296 | Profile # |
the threads u linked only explained stuff i already know so got no use of it rly,
liquidpedia is something im using alot but it can only take you so far.
thanks anyway |
| | My friends, this is our final hour. Not all of us may survive the coming conflict. Yet, death may be a blessing should we fail here. - Tassadar |
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| rezzan Sweden. June 10 2012 12:00. Posts 296 | Profile # |
On June 10 2012 09:25 Miwyfe wrote:
Welcome.
Heres a dangerously simplistic but trying to be noob friendly summary:
PvT
1 zealot then 3 Dragoons with range.
Expand.
Add two gates and get more Goons and also get Observers.
Expand.
Add two more gates.
Get all the other tech buildings (citadel, forge, templar archives and star, arbiter tribunal).
Go up to 10 to 12 gates.
Army=Zealots, Goons, Observers, Arbiters.
Attack into the Terran army with Speed zealots, Goons, 2 or 3 arbiters with Stasis, and +1 ground weapons. You want to engage him in an open area as he approaches your base.
Your in the late game now;
Expand to a 4th and 5th base.
Add another group of gates at the 5th base so that you have 20 to 25 gates in total.
Get more forges and more weapon and armour upgrades.
Get the recall upgrade for arbiters.
PvZ
Forge expand
Star
Citadel and 2nd gate
+1 ground attack
Templar Archives
Go up to 6 gates
Get robo and observers
Expand
Go up to 12 gates
Army=Speed Zeals and Sairs to begin with. Walk all the way to Zerg base with around 8 zealots and 6 sairs, then retreat.
Next get 4 to 6 high templar and psi storm.
Then get 3 rounds of goons from 6 gateways and observers.
Soon you will have around 10 or so Speed Zeals, 20 or so Goons, 8 or so HT, 3 or so observers. You attack into a Zerg base with this army.
Your now in the late game;
Expand to a 4th and 5th base.
Army composition is more zealot archon and HT.
Make a robo at your 4th base and make reavers there.
PvP
2 zealots then Dragoons with range.
robo and observer then reaver.
2 more gates.
Expand.
Go to 4 gates and citadel, templar archives, forge.
Go to 6 gates.
Expand
Get 8 to 10 gates.
Army=12 or so Goons and 1 observer, 1 shuttle, 1 reaver. Attack enemy natural.
Now retreat and expand. Get more goons and 1 more reaver, then more observers. Get speed zeals and then 2 archons.
Get more goons, zealots and HT with psi storm.
Attack as you take your 3rd base.
Your now in late game;
Get more expansions.
Get more attack and armour upgrades.
Get more gates.
This guide is designed to give you a very very rough guidleine to start from as you requested.
To learn the game takes time, watch a few recent games in the Small Vod Thread.
Experiment! Play around! This is part of the fun. Goodluck
Why,thanks alot. way better answer then i expected lol. ill read through it and try it out ! 
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| | My friends, this is our final hour. Not all of us may survive the coming conflict. Yet, death may be a blessing should we fail here. - Tassadar |
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| Pyre_Fly United Kingdom. June 10 2012 20:07. Posts 31 | Profile Blog # |
PvT
8 Pylon
10 Gate
11 Assimilator
13 Core
15 Pylon
Dragoon and Range when Core finishes
At this point, you can either keep making probes, goons and pylons and expand when you have 400, or add on another gateway and do a 2gate powergoon pressure
Get a Robo after expo, either go reaver harass, or get observers and expand again before teching
PvP
Go 2gate goon as above, but get a Robo and either obs or reavers before expanding. That accounts for more possibilities, but you can just go DTs too
PvZ
Forge FE is 8 pylon at nat, 10 forge, then you can generally go cannon, nex, gateway, but if you scout a 9pool, get 2 cannons and block
Get gas, core, then you can either go for fast corsairs into templar ground, or you can get a fast +1 weapons from the forge, and get zealot leg speed and push with 4 gates worth of speedzeals +1, which kills lings in 2 hits, not 3
Kinda similar to what Miwyfe said, but sometimes its handy to have supply timings in there. Again, play around with stuff =]
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| | "You know what's all the rage this year? Hats." |
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| 3FFA United States. June 10 2012 20:56. Posts 2660 | Profile Blog # | |
| | I no longer expect the best in people. Sadly, I am beginning to expect much worse. |
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| Chef June 11 2012 08:14. Posts 9708 | Profile Blog # |
If you are breaking even/losing points at D, you should just 2gate zealot rush every game until you get a grasp of what 2gate zealot is like, and then you can try some more standard/optimized builds or DT rush every game until you know what that is like.
If you ask for help from people you play or on b.net, try not to tell them you know the fundamentals, because I don't think you realise quite how much that encompasses. You would not be struggling at D if you knew the fundementals of StarCraft. It will be useless to copy an advanced build order if you don't know what to do with the units you have, which is why I suggest playing around with 2gate so that at least in early game situations you will get a grasp of what Zealots can and cannot do and you will actually learn the basics instead of trying to take shortcuts to very optimized builds but then making stupid tactical decisions that you don't deserve to make. Stuff like forgetting robotics, even if you do eventually hardcode that into your brain, is not good because it means you don't really know what the robotics is for or why you're getting it when you get it. When you get better at the game and think 'wow I could really use such and such a tech to deal with this situation' then it will become a real and natural response. You can memorise a good build and get good at executing it, but if you do that might end up as one of those hollow players who doesn't understand why any of what he is doing works, and thus can't adjust it to situations. Learn to adjust to every situation that occurs when you two gate, and you will learn a lot about StarCraft.
That is my suggestion, anyway, I hope it doesn't come off as too arrogant, I am just saying you shouldn't even worry about all the things you need to get in a build order if you haven't got the basics down, and when you do have those basics down you won't need to route memorise builds because you will actually understand the logic behind the build.
glgl hf. |
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| DaisyP United States. June 11 2012 14:40. Posts 47 | Profile # |
i usally go 10/15 gate.
gas at 13 (should i not forget it lol)
and core at 14, get the range upgrade for Goons first gas possible,
after first 100gas goes to citadel of adun.
Nothing here is correct :-p. Who's your coach? He should know better.
It sounds like your mechanics aren't there yet. Are you constantly producing probes without stopping?
1) If you're teching off 1 gate, gas should be at 12.
2) If you're getting 1 or less zealots, core should be at 13.
3) If you're doing a 10/15 gate, then you should be cutting probes at 15. 10/15 gate is a pretty much all-in dragoon rush in pvt, unless you're playing a broken, imbalanced map like Tau Cross.
4) Since you're doing a 10/15 gate goon rush, why are you building a citadel?!?! Nothing makes sense!
I wouldn't learn bw by memorizing builds. Instead, I would think about what possible objectives you could achieve. Then, try to get to those objectives in an optimal way. glhf!
also:
I'd say i know the fundamentals or Idea of how to play starcraft.
I guess it depends on what you mean by fundamentals, but there is a lot to learn in bw! Until I had a very specific understanding of each phase of each matchup, including a working knowledge of mobility/position/scouting play, I didn't feel like I had a sound fundamental grasp of sc at all. Above all else, bw is a game of decision making based on speed, multitasking, and imperfect information :-).Last edit: 2012-06-11 14:49:02 |
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| Starburst United States. June 11 2012 17:23. Posts 106 | Profile # |
Quality post right here:+ Show Spoiler +
On June 10 2012 09:25 Miwyfe wrote:
Welcome.
Heres a dangerously simplistic but trying to be noob friendly summary:
PvT
1 zealot then 3 Dragoons with range.
Expand.
Add a gate and get more Goons and also get Observers.
Expand.
Add two more gates.
Get all the other tech buildings (citadel, forge, templar archives and star, arbiter tribunal).
Go up to 10 to 12 gates.
Army=Zealots, Goons, Observers, Arbiters.
Attack into the Terran army with Speed zealots, Goons, 2 or 3 arbiters with Stasis, and +1 ground weapons. You want to engage him in an open area as he approaches your base.
Your in the late game now;
Expand to a 4th and 5th base.
Add another group of gates at the 5th base so that you have 20 to 25 gates in total.
Get more forges and more weapon and armour upgrades.
Get the recall upgrade for arbiters.
PvZ
Forge expand
Star
+1 ground attack
Citadel and 2nd gate
Templar Archives
Go up to 6 gates
Get robo and observers
Expand
Go up to 12 gates
Army=Speed Zeals and Sairs to begin with. Walk all the way to Zerg base with around 8 zealots and 6 sairs, then retreat.
Next get 4 to 6 high templar and psi storm.
Then get 3 rounds of goons from 6 gateways and observers.
Soon you will have around 10 or so Speed Zeals, 20 or so Goons, 8 or so HT, 3 or so observers. You attack into a Zerg base with this army.
Your now in the late game;
Expand to a 4th and 5th base.
Army composition is more zealot archon and HT.
Make a robo at your 4th base and make reavers there.
PvP
2 zealots then Dragoons with range.
robo and observer then reaver.
2 more gates.
Expand.
Go to 4 gates and citadel, templar archives, forge.
Go to 6 gates.
Expand
Get 8 to 10 gates.
Army=12 or so Goons and 1 observer, 1 shuttle, 1 reaver. Attack enemy natural.
Now retreat and expand. Get more goons and 1 more reaver, then more observers. Get speed zeals and then 2 archons.
Get more goons, zealots and HT with psi storm.
Attack as you take your 3rd base.
Your now in late game;
Get more expansions.
Get more attack and armour upgrades.
Get more gates.
This guide is designed to give you a very very rough guidleine to start from as you requested.
To learn the game takes time, watch a few recent games in the Small Vod Thread.
Experiment! Play around! This is part of the fun. Goodluck
You should post some replays as well so that we can see what kind of mistakes you may be making. It's rather hard, in my opinion, to help someone out without any guidance. We need to see what we're working with, you know?
Going off what you've given,
1) I always build my assimilator at 11 (most pros I've seen replays of do this), but you can build it at 12 as well
2) Your cyber core should be 13 regardless of when you built your assimilator
3) Stop probe production at 15 and get everything in this order: 2nd Gate---->Goon Range--->First Dragoon---->Pylon at 17
4) Don't tech to anything for a bit. By going 10/15 gate, you have decided to make a fast, aggressive push against Terran in the early game.
Think of it like this: There are three builds you can use in starcraft. The first are aggressive builds (like 10/15 gate) that seek to gain an early military advantage in the game. The second are economic builds whose purpose is to give you an early economic lead over your opponent (like 14 Nexus). Third, you can use a build that endeavors to tech faster than your opponent, giving you a lead in the types of units available relative to your opponent. Now, these three types of builds form a pseudo-trianglge: Aggression>Economy>Teching>Aggression. If you think about scenarios you have encountered (in both SC2 and SCBW), you will see that in most cases, given two technically, mechanically, and mentally similar players, this triangle holds true. So, try to keep that in mind when you are working on builds or scouting your opponent.
Hope that helps.
EDIT: Fixed the "triangle". I had it in the wrong order.
Last edit: 2012-06-11 17:59:02 |
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| Puyi United States. June 11 2012 20:15. Posts 161 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 17:23 Starburst wrote:
Going off what you've given,
2) Your cyber core should be 13 regardless of when you built your assimilator
actually from what ive experienced. core should be put down as soon as the first gas is finished building. this is the case for every build. no reason for faster core with no gas ready since you need gas to tech after core, make goons, goon range and everything you need a core for. |
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| pebble444 Italy. June 11 2012 22:58. Posts 953 | Profile Blog # |
My advice: switch to terran. Okay on a more serious note:
I would not suggest 10/15 gateway as your standard build PvT. It is kinda a cheesy build, and hurts a lot your economy.
I say its cheesy cause you cut probes to get tech and infrastructure up, and when scouted can be easily delt with.
I am a D rank Terran and if i scout a 10/15 i have no problem dealing with it, winning 80 % of the games i scoute it.
If you must 10/15 do it on maps with out maps or with reverse ramps, its more stronger. Another follow up (more cheese) is to get a robo up, build a shuttle (while continuining producing dragoons) and "elevator" into opponent main. Here is an example game of 10/15 with that follow-up played yesterday:
http://www.4shared.com/file/yXxU3JPN/Game_5_2.html
Note that, while the terran got siege upgrade, he followed up his strategy with a starport and dropship. This is not a common transition and in this situation favored the protoss.
Note as well that, once you know a buildorder by heart, you should learn to adapt the B.O. to the player you are playing.
I suggest you learn these B.O. in PvT, at your level:
1 gate expo. (requires Dragoon micro)
into more gateways, relative quick Third and tech to arbiters.
Both expansion and gateway timings depend heavily on what your terran opponent is doing. Only Experience and games will give you exact timings. If you are not confident with goon micro then 2 gate expo, less economical but safer.(Do not 10/15 and then expo without trying to to damage to your opponent)
3 Base carriers: Tryout and tryout tech switching, The most fundamental part of that is denying your opponent to scout the tech switch.
Another good trick for tosses in the mid-game is to group your goons with an obeservers: say 11 goons 1 observer.
Remember the keys of a Pvt military force:
Mobility : Protoss, especially in the early and mid-game, have a lot of mobility with their army. leg speed, shuttle, arbiters with recall give Protoss a lot of options. USE those options.
Flexibility: Protoss can opt for a ground army, or a airforce, with ground units for support, forcing a terran to do its bidding and dictating what kind of army the terran needs. Cannons and correct sim-cities have become very important in PvT.
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| | "Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory which is your Birthright" |
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| Chef June 12 2012 02:20. Posts 9708 | Profile Blog # |
1) If you're teching off 1 gate, gas should be at 12.
It's 11, lol. 12 gas 14 core is the old unoptimised way, 11 gas 13 core is the new way (people didn't do it before because I guess the didn't want to risk not having 100 minerals between constant probes, or minerals lines weren't efficient enough to get them those 100 minerals while still having constant probes). |
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| FlaShFTW United States. June 12 2012 04:30. Posts 4962 | Profile Blog # |
PvZ: LML BUILD!!! It's really not that hard to do and it works very effectively on maps with a wide choke to the natural (i.e. python)
PvT: 1 gate core expo is the build i currently use. pretty simplistic, get a 2nd gate after expo and robo.
PvP: goons goons, and more goons. i think the standard right now is like a 1 gate robo expo build, or was it 1 gate expo robo??? anyways, check out the 12 nexus build guide, pretty standard on iccup right now. |
| | Never Surrender. Never GG. Always Fighting. BW4LYF. Woo Jung Ho Never Forget. |
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| Starburst United States. June 12 2012 05:19. Posts 106 | Profile # |
EDIT: Disregard this post lol
Last edit: 2012-06-12 05:23:20 |
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| WeRRa June 12 2012 06:32. Posts 307 | Profile # |
best to way to get started is watching replays.
take some pro and semi pros replays, watch there strats, figure out the build, practice till you have the build order down and go ladder.
if you struggle with it, watch your reps and the reps of the players you got the strat from and try to figure out what your doing wrong.
here is a link: semi pro reps
i would recommend sky[kal] for protoss. |
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| sluggaslamoo Australia. June 12 2012 15:09. Posts 3495 | Profile Blog # |
I think gate cyb gate expand (no units) is a much better beginner build for PvT. If the Terran decides to cheese, it will be much easier to hold.
When I started I used to net quite a few wins in PvT with 12 nexus into 10 gate all in. Obviously don't need that many gates, but I didn't have good macro back then. Eventually shift to getting your 3rd with 4 gateway robo, and then start learning reactionary builds to know when best to get 3rd and tech. Start with 3 base carrier, then learn 2-3 base arbiter.
PvZ, its good to start off with 2 gate, until you get enough apm to handle FFE. Then start doing +1 speedlot archon and eventually corsair play.
PvP, 2 gate reaver every game. NonY showed its the most solid PvP build. There's heaps of tutorials by him as well.
Last edit: 2012-06-12 15:12:05 |
| | BW: Slugger[wOk] feel free to add | No Tidehunter |
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| rezzan Sweden. June 12 2012 20:18. Posts 296 | Profile # |
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 11 2012 08:14 Chef wrote:
If you are breaking even/losing points at D, you should just 2gate zealot rush every game until you get a grasp of what 2gate zealot is like, and then you can try some more standard/optimized builds or DT rush every game until you know what that is like.
If you ask for help from people you play or on b.net, try not to tell them you know the fundamentals, because I don't think you realise quite how much that encompasses. You would not be struggling at D if you knew the fundementals of StarCraft. It will be useless to copy an advanced build order if you don't know what to do with the units you have, which is why I suggest playing around with 2gate so that at least in early game situations you will get a grasp of what Zealots can and cannot do and you will actually learn the basics instead of trying to take shortcuts to very optimized builds but then making stupid tactical decisions that you don't deserve to make. Stuff like forgetting robotics, even if you do eventually hardcode that into your brain, is not good because it means you don't really know what the robotics is for or why you're getting it when you get it. When you get better at the game and think 'wow I could really use such and such a tech to deal with this situation' then it will become a real and natural response. You can memorise a good build and get good at executing it, but if you do that might end up as one of those hollow players who doesn't understand why any of what he is doing works, and thus can't adjust it to situations. Learn to adjust to every situation that occurs when you two gate, and you will learn a lot about StarCraft.
That is my suggestion, anyway, I hope it doesn't come off as too arrogant, I am just saying you shouldn't even worry about all the things you need to get in a build order if you haven't got the basics down, and when you do have those basics down you won't need to route memorise builds because you will actually understand the logic behind the build.
glgl hf.
seems like a decent tip id say, but when i said "i know the fundamentals" then i mean like ,if my enemy do X i have to do Y,and if i rush for example a protoss and really do alot of dmg ,the odds that he will do Dt's are pretty huge, and thats a good decision IMHO, but then i was ready for it, because i sort of "pushed" him into making DTS, I had a game like this the other day and i was so happy with my decision making
when i play alot of 2v2 i often find myself in a situation where i have quite good economy but not enough units,so i end up losing just thanks to my mid-game "insecurity" ? this however is something i cant get so much help with ,rather i need to keep playing and practice, i simply need builds that arent TO difficult in 1v1 to pull off so i got some ground to st and on.
the reason why i often forget about the ROBO is simply cuz i got a build that im focusing 100% at and just erase the thought that i might need vision of my enemy/or observers or such. deffo gota fix that -,-
but thanks for the read ! |
| | My friends, this is our final hour. Not all of us may survive the coming conflict. Yet, death may be a blessing should we fail here. - Tassadar |
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| 13Julia Canada. June 12 2012 21:27. Posts 77 | Profile # |
"if my enemy do X i have to do Y" that is a bit not in the league with build orders and strategies.
If you need some advice, I can watch you play a bit and comment on some things.
Tip: you can go dt vs dt and block your ramp with a DT :> so it's possible to defend without cannons and obs.
-----------
As a new player, you should get accustomed to:
-PvT: 10gate/12gas/14cyber-> range/goons 2nd gate/robo/obs -> exp when possible, citadel -> exp -> arbiters. Carriers as a late game finisher.
Why goons and obs? Beacause terran has vultures and mines. And robo allows for flexibility, you can easily defend vs most early pushes with goons + shuttle w/ zeals. And obs = easy scouting.
Other things: reaver harass. And there is a huge difference between a "reaver drop" and "reaver harass" ;]
is DT rush viable? only if unscouted, same with dt drop -> cheese plays, they can work, but once the terran starts to defend, he probably will win
-PvP: Preferably 1 gate tech goons -> 2gate/reavers. The hard thing for new players is defending vs 2 gate zeals here.
Try not to show too much to your opponent, once he sees a robo, he might go 4 gate goon/z without any other tech which can contain you in your main since you'll have fewer units. There's nothing wrong with you doing the same, but we're talking about a bit more "stable plays" that will allow for frequent wining.
DT only as cheese, since it gets punished by good players.
-PvZ: Forge fast exp -> corsairs/dt -> mass. It's easier than main-only builds.
is 2 gate rush viable? -Only vs poor players. A good zerg will always defend! It's not an "uber-strat" ;]
Main-only builds suck vs good zergs. That is to be remembered.
_
At the end of the day, it all comes down to micro/macro/control. If you have those+a bit of understanding, you can pull off any strategy.
"the reason why i often forget about the ROBO is simply cuz i got a build that im focusing 100% at and just erase the thought that i might need vision" [vs] "i know the fundamentals" then i mean like ,if my enemy do X i have to do Y"
;p |
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 ImbaTosS United Kingdom. June 13 2012 03:03. Posts 1217 | Profile Blog # |
On June 12 2012 21:27 13Julia wrote:
"if my enemy do X i have to do Y" that is a bit not in the league with build orders and strategies.
If you need some advice, I can watch you play a bit and comment on some things.
Tip: you can go dt vs dt and block your ramp with a DT :> so it's possible to defend without cannons and obs.
-----------
As a new player, you should get accustomed to:
-PvT: 10gate/12gas/14cyber-> range/goons 2nd gate/robo/obs -> exp when possible, citadel -> exp -> arbiters. Carriers as a late game finisher.
Why goons and obs? Beacause terran has vultures and mines. And robo allows for flexibility, you can easily defend vs most early pushes with goons + shuttle w/ zeals. And obs = easy scouting.
Other things: reaver harass. And there is a huge difference between a "reaver drop" and "reaver harass" ;]
is DT rush viable? only if unscouted, same with dt drop -> cheese plays, they can work, but once the terran starts to defend, he probably will win
-PvP: Preferably 1 gate tech goons -> 2gate/reavers. The hard thing for new players is defending vs 2 gate zeals here.
Try not to show too much to your opponent, once he sees a robo, he might go 4 gate goon/z without any other tech which can contain you in your main since you'll have fewer units. There's nothing wrong with you doing the same, but we're talking about a bit more "stable plays" that will allow for frequent wining.
DT only as cheese, since it gets punished by good players.
-PvZ: Forge fast exp -> corsairs/dt -> mass. It's easier than main-only builds.
is 2 gate rush viable? -Only vs poor players. A good zerg will always defend! It's not an "uber-strat" ;]
Main-only builds suck vs good zergs. That is to be remembered.
_
At the end of the day, it all comes down to micro/macro/control. If you have those+a bit of understanding, you can pull off any strategy.
"the reason why i often forget about the ROBO is simply cuz i got a build that im focusing 100% at and just erase the thought that i might need vision" [vs] "i know the fundamentals" then i mean like ,if my enemy do X i have to do Y"
;p
There are some scary generalisations here! By all means, use this as early guidance, because it's good for that. But keep an open mind for later. Nothing is so black and white as "a good zerg will always defend" in PvZ, or "DT only as cheese" in PvP, or "Main-only builds suck vs good zergs". Hopefully as you go on you will realise that there are so many things which are highly unconventional, or very finely tuned so as to be at first impossible, but can work in the right hands.
The second two of those quotations are strong examples of such principles. |
| | EleGant[AoV] My TLPD sucks. I'm good though, I swear... |
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