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| NOOBALOPSE Canada. June 10 2012 22:30. Posts 802 | Profile # |
About me
+ Show Spoiler +I am a 1.1k Masters Zerg (My profile is Here) playing for Team ExG. This is my first guide, so please any constructive criticism would be really helpful.
Why you would want to do Nydus Play in ZvT
+ Show Spoiler +
• This is fun
• It is a huge workout for your multitasking
• This is a huge unexplored avenue of playing Zerg
• You can transition into something else and Nydus are very useful in the late game for both offense and defence.
• There are so many things you have to do in the late game, it is likely your opponent wouldn’t even notice the nydus (if you put it in their base).
The Current ZvT Metagame
+ Show Spoiler +
The basic ZvT metagame (which I’m sure most of you know) as Zerg is to get 3 bases as fast as possible while defending w/ double ups lair. Then we get infestors and eventually you get Brood Lords or Ultralisks. However, I feel there is a huge problem with this metagame. If Terran attacks when you’re getting Brood Lords, he usually kills a base. Terran can deny you bases, but you can’t. Terran can disrupt your economy but you can’t. This is where the nydus comes in…
Plan Overview
+ Show Spoiler +
There are many advantages of going Nydus in ZvT. It is kind of like a stepping-stone. You use the nydus in order to do TERRIBLE TERRIBLE DAMAGE (Thank you Dustin Browder) to the Terran economy. This part is guaranteed, some damage ALWAYS comes from using the nydus. However, if your Terran buddy starts to mess up, you will almost 80% (keep in mind I pulled this number out of my ass) of the time kill him. After you have disrupted the Terran economy, you can easily go into Brood Lords for the final blow, or you can choose to go for banelings in an attempt for a bust. Both of which work extremely well, but I hate Brood Lords, so you will only every see me going for banelings or stick with the same composition and attempt for a bust.
Nydus vs. Drop
+ Show Spoiler +
Techniques
+ Show Spoiler +
Overlord Placement
+ Show Spoiler +
The Build
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HA! As Day[9] has said, NO NUMBERS ALLOWED! F NUMBAS!
So basically, what you’re going to do is play ZvT normally until you are in the lategame with your Ultra ling infestor composition. When you have a good number of ultras (~3-6), you want to get the Nydus Network down and try using it in order to disrupt the Terran economy. Keep in mind… You DO NOT have to put it inside his base. You can put it at his untaken fifth and unload just a smidge farther away, or you could put it just outside the terran third in an attempt for a runby (Which can now be done by Ultralisks because you can go back in your nydus to defend!). As I have already said, after you disrupt the Terran economy you can go banelings (in an attempt to bust them) or Brood Lords for a slightly longer game. You know what to do from here!
Replays
+ Show Spoiler +http://drop.sc/186616I do know that ViOlet, Sleep, Ostojiy, and Fitzyhere use nydus, so their streams should have some games where they do use Nydus on their stream. Sleep's stream http://www.twitch.tv/92sleep ViOlet's stream http://www.twitch.tv/csntv (apparently he stream's through CSNtv...) Fitzyhere's stream http://www.twitch.tv/fitzyhere Can't find ostojiy's stream, if someone would post it that would be nice. However, I have found some of his replay packs (some of which may have Nydus Plays) http://www.itsgosu.com/game/sc2/articles/ig-replays-ostojiy_262
Day[9]'s thoughts on Nydus play
+ Show Spoiler +
Advantages to Nydus play
+ Show Spoiler + - Huge chance you will break the Terran
- You are guaranteed to disrupt his economy with some good multitasking
- You can avoid turtle split map, boring situations'
- Adds more skill to the game, (it doesn't come down to 1 battle, it comes down to how well you disrupt his economy)
- Exercises your multitasking
- Can be used defensively to defend drops and offensively
- Can be used to take island bases (WHY ARE THERE NO ISLAND MAPS OTHER THAN METRO!!!)
- Keeps Terran inside his base and you can expand all over the map
- Let's you control the pace of the game
Disadvantages to Nydus play
+ Show Spoiler +- Nydus play causes any other tech to be delayed
- Requires loads of multitasking
- If your overlords get sniped before your Nydus Network is up (or while it is up) then you have less options on where to put the Nydus Worm and will most likely have to get overlord speed in order to get overlords back in place (you could say this is a pro, because people always forget overlord speed and it is such an underused upgrade)
- The Nydus Worm is a single building and easy to snipe, so if you unload units (let's say ultralisks) you might end up losing all the Ultralisks you unloaded
- The Nydus Worm unloads and loads 1 unit at a time, so there is the chance all of your units are not able to retreat
Questions and Answers
+ Show Spoiler +I find late game ZvT harassment almost useless, the game must be won by a nice deathball engagement and denying his expo Ultra/Ling with overlord drops and maybe nydus to kill production is great against Terran, since you can be all over the map and inside his base, forcing him to turtle up or suffer a counter attack. Siege Tanks effectively do nothing because Ultralisks have so much HP and a huge model, which nullifies Siege Tank splash, and keeps them from focusing down units behind the Ultralisks. MLG Spring Championships is clear evidence of this, as most of the TvZ's come down to the Terran army of Marine/Marauder/Tank/Medivac dying to Ultra/Ling/Bane/Infestor, and the Zerg cleaning up with Infestor/Broodlord.
Terran would always be stockpiling minerals, killing scvs mean nothing since they might replace the scvs with a stronger army. Actually no. Terran is far more mineral-starved than gas-starved in TvZ and TvP because we refuse to use a large amount of units like the Thor and Raven, which makes SCV harassment far more effective as for every SCV we have to remake that's one less Marine, as well as delayed mining.
and lings/ultras + nydus has always been a very disappointing combo for me, you could lose ultras/infestors just because your lings are not completely unloaded yet or your lings are trying to load into the nydus before your ultras and losing those expensive units You can combine this with Overlord drops, using Zerglings as the vanguard for Ultralisks to come through, or vice versa, and use the Nydus worm exclusively to retreat the Ultralisks, as Zerglings are extremely cheap in the late-game and Zerg is more gas-starved.(If you really want to save the Zerglings go ahead and load them back up into the Overlords.) Something similar to this was suggested by someone else in a different thread.
It's difficult to justify whether your harassment was worth the damage or not imo.
My question is:
if you are going ultra and ling, why go nydus because your army is so mobile already, nydus could be spotted by drops etc It circumvents cliffs, which means you can assault mineral lines, production, and supply more easily. ALL CREDIT FOR THOSE ANSWERS GOES TO FENCER710! Thank you for participating in the thread!
Feedback
+ Show Spoiler +Poll: How do you rate the guide /10?7 (6) 19% 5 (6) 19% 6 (5) 16% 4 (3) 10% 3 (3) 10% 1 (3) 10% 10 (2) 6% 9 (1) 3% 8 (1) 3% 2 (1) 3% 31 total votes Your vote: How do you rate the guide /10? (Vote): 10
(Vote): 9
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(Vote): 3
(Vote): 2
(Vote): 1
Conclusion
+ Show Spoiler +Last edit: 2012-06-23 22:17:16 |
| | Go ExG! watch my stream - twitch.tv/exgnoobalopse ♥! Follow me on twitter@NooBaSC |
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| weepingAngel Australia. June 10 2012 22:35. Posts 14 | Profile # |
I think you need to check your 'spoiler' marker placement, other than that looks good.
looking fowards to some replays |
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| NOOBALOPSE Canada. June 10 2012 22:39. Posts 802 | Profile # |
I already have 1 :D
Yeah fixed that  |
| | Go ExG! watch my stream - twitch.tv/exgnoobalopse ♥! Follow me on twitter@NooBaSC |
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| ETisME Hong Kong. June 10 2012 22:40. Posts 4835 | Profile Blog # |
I find late game ZvT harassment almost useless, the game must be won by a nice deathball engagement and denying his expo
Terran would always be stockpiling minerals, killing scvs mean nothing since they might replace the scvs with a stronger army.
and lings/ultras + nydus has always been a very disappointing combo for me, you could lose ultras/infestors just because your lings are not completely unloaded yet or your lings are trying to load into the nydus before your ultras and losing those expensive units
It's difficult to justify whether your harassment was worth the damage or not imo.
But if you can put up some good replays, maybe I will change my opinion :D
a little more details would be nice in each section would be nice.
My question is:
if you are going ultra and ling, why go nydus because your army is so mobile already, nydus could be spotted by drops etcLast edit: 2012-06-10 22:41:42 |
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| NOOBALOPSE Canada. June 10 2012 22:41. Posts 802 | Profile # |
On June 10 2012 22:40 ETisME wrote:
I find late game ZvT harassment almost useless, the game must be won by a nice deathball engagement and denying his expo
Terran would always be stockpiling minerals, killing scvs mean nothing since they might replace the scvs with a stronger army.
and lings/ultras + nydus has always been a very disappointing combo for me, you could lose ultras/infestors just because your lings are not completely unloaded yet or your lings are trying to load into the nydus before your ultras and losing those expensive units
It's difficult to justify whether your harassment was worth the damage or not imo.
But if you can put up some good replays, maybe I will change my opinion :D
Terran is only on max 4 bases when you start your harassment dude... Even if your army is "so mobile", it can't harass without the nydus... Drops are just way worse than a nydus, try for urself... You can't evacuate cause ovies are so slow even with speed, and you can only fit one ultra in an overlord...Last edit: 2012-06-10 22:49:25 |
| | Go ExG! watch my stream - twitch.tv/exgnoobalopse ♥! Follow me on twitter@NooBaSC |
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| Chaosvuistje Netherlands. June 10 2012 22:57. Posts 2546 | Profile # |
I do not particularly like this guide. The content is fairly light and is sparce on usable info. It basically says that I can use nydus networks in the lategame ( 3+ base ) while providing small tips about the placement. I personally don't find it much of a guide because it doesn't teach me any timings, special situations, trade offs with other strategies or special details to look at, just "use more nydusses".
On the presentation, it has nothing visual like images or a header catching your eye between the content. It's just a list of spoiler tags with text inside. You can just spoiler tag some content but not all of it needs to be inside its own spoiler nest. The feedback/rating section isn't really needed either, if people will like your guide or dislike it they will put it in the comments. And you could put the link on reddit to get the upvote thing going.
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| Mauzel United States. June 10 2012 23:02. Posts 114 | Profile # |
I slightly prefer drops to nydus:
-It's easier to multiprong with drops.
-You're going to be spending about the same initial investment in gas, but additional nydus costs additional gas whereas additional overlords cost minerals.
-It's easier to save your overlords than your nydus.
-Overlord speed is a useful upgrade, might as well spend the 200/200 on drop if it's late game.
-You can unload units from many overlords faster than from a single nydus (double nydus is quite baller though).
-You can use baneling drops (goodish against some mech comps, decent against SCV lines).
-No "rawr" announcing that their base is about to be flooded with lings.
The major advantage of Nydus is that it's easier to save your units after the attack. |
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| Sylverin United States. June 10 2012 23:30. Posts 466 | Profile # |
the only tactic ive noticed is pretty fun not sure if its good or not is to get both drop and nydus and doom drop the terran then nydus when he comes to defend(assuming no base race)
Edit: to retreat of course Last edit: 2012-06-10 23:30:26 |
| | Liquid hero <3////ROOT IS BACK BABY! :D |
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| achristes Norway. June 10 2012 23:54. Posts 649 | Profile Blog # |
Ok, the only time I will use the nydus in ZvT is of I'm maxed at ultra/ling/infestor and the terran is turtling hard. I will nydus their main, nat and third(if they still have one) to pull their army out of position and then attack and unload a couple of units from the worms.
I've also used it for setting up flanks on a sieged terran push. Works ok, but I would never make a nydus until lategame. |
| | youtube.com/spooderm4n | twitch.tv/spooderm4n | Random videos and games I feel like uploading |
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| zmansman17 United States. June 11 2012 00:37. Posts 2181 | Profile # |
Nydus ZvT is super good and I've often wondered why Zergs didn't do this more (rank 1 master terran). I hate to give you guys tips, but why aren't you dropping multiple changelings in the late game and walking them into potential nydus locations and then making a ton of nydus canals?
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| | ♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞ |
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 chebhe United States. June 11 2012 01:25. Posts 113 | Profile # |
| It only takes 4 ultras in a nydus to kill a planetary before an out of position army arrives. I do this all the time late game and yes, it works great. |
| | Mebd: how are you fucking helping? you think i'm joking? you think I don't regularly cut myself to relieve stress? want me to email you pictures of my bloody mouse |
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| []Phase[] Belgium. June 11 2012 01:47. Posts 577 | Profile # |
meh, I dunno dude,.. nydus is only supposed to work against people who are not watching their minimap. even if you find a spot in their main, the units poppin out + scvs can just kill it. I mean, do you really wanna rely on a play that needs your opponent to suck total ass? And nydus to just transport units over the map with its 1unload / time... you are better off just running ur 60 lings there (mentioned many times before)
I believe there are enough reasons as to why zergs at both low and high level don't use nydus in it's current state. And I don't see the guide dealing with all the problems nydus has at the moment. It seems to me you just thought ' oh nydus ar kewl, if I can make them work in 1 game ill make an entire guide around it'. But against competent players, its a total waste of rescources.Last edit: 2012-06-11 01:50:28 |
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| zmansman17 United States. June 11 2012 01:56. Posts 2181 | Profile # |
| Nydus is incredibly strong whether its spotted or not. It forces your opponent to waste time denying nydus worms while you macro with impunity. |
| | ♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞ |
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| []Phase[] Belgium. June 11 2012 03:02. Posts 577 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 01:56 zmansman17 wrote:
Nydus is incredibly strong whether its spotted or not. It forces your opponent to waste time denying nydus worms while you macro with impunity.
You are seriously overrating nydus here. 'waste time' as in attack a nydus? I think terrans gladly would take that 100/100 from the zerg for such a small amount of actions needed. And 'not spotted' simply means you dont have your base covered with depot or you are simply too slow in noticing things. tell me WHY it is incredibly strong other than that the terran has to look away for 1 sec. It's not like you can macro better if you put nydusses that get denied anyways. and if we are going to talk about that '1 or 2 actions' then you might aswell say that it takes some actions out of the zerg aswell to get ovie in position + place the nydus, it would be just as rediculous. |
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| reikai United States. June 11 2012 03:05. Posts 305 | Profile # |
On June 10 2012 22:41 NOOBALOPSE wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 10 2012 22:40 ETisME wrote:
I find late game ZvT harassment almost useless, the game must be won by a nice deathball engagement and denying his expo
Terran would always be stockpiling minerals, killing scvs mean nothing since they might replace the scvs with a stronger army.
and lings/ultras + nydus has always been a very disappointing combo for me, you could lose ultras/infestors just because your lings are not completely unloaded yet or your lings are trying to load into the nydus before your ultras and losing those expensive units
It's difficult to justify whether your harassment was worth the damage or not imo.
But if you can put up some good replays, maybe I will change my opinion :D
Terran is only on max 4 bases when you start your harassment dude... Even if your army is "so mobile", it can't harass without the nydus... Drops are just way worse than a nydus, try for urself... You can't evacuate cause ovies are so slow even with speed, and you can only fit one ultra in an overlord...
I agree! (Hello NOOBALOPSE :D) even the Terran dropship can't keep up with the instantaneousness of the Nydus  The brood war pros definitely had it right, using Nydus for offense and defense. Again, there isn't anything wrong with NOT putting the exit RIGHT in his base, but it shouldn't be there if you think it would be better used by making the terran just shit his pants by putting it just outside and making him check everywhere :D |
| | Et Ducit Mundum Per Luce. :T: |
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| DoubleReed United States. June 11 2012 03:35. Posts 3133 | Profile Blog # |
I've seen Sleep use nydus against Terran a lot. It looks really powerful and fun. It allows the Zerg even more threatening options in the lategame.
You can even go broodlord infestor first and then use ultranydus to rip up some buildings when the Terran is out of position. You can usually get ahead pretty easily as Zerg, it's more about not allowing the Terran to catch up. And of course nydus means you should never be caught in a bad position with your ultras (cause you can run back into the nydus) and you can also transfuse hurt ultras easily as long as you have the apm. |
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| Wintertime Canada. June 11 2012 05:53. Posts 63 | Profile # |
On June 11 2012 00:37 zmansman17 wrote:
Nydus ZvT is super good and I've often wondered why Zergs didn't do this more (rank 1 master terran). I hate to give you guys tips, but why aren't you dropping multiple changelings in the late game and walking them into potential nydus locations and then making a ton of nydus canals?
This. I've begun adding it into lategame against ZvT and ZvP and it's been distracting them more than I could ask for. |
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| Dark.EX United States. June 11 2012 06:08. Posts 1504 | Profile Blog # |
On June 10 2012 22:40 ETisME wrote:
I find late game ZvT harassment almost useless, the game must be won by a nice deathball engagement and denying his expo Ultra/Ling with overlord drops and maybe nydus to kill production is great against Terran, since you can be all over the map and inside his base, forcing him to turtle up or suffer a counter attack. Siege Tanks effectively do nothing because Ultralisks have so much HP and a huge model, which nullifies Siege Tank splash, and keeps them from focusing down units behind the Ultralisks. MLG Spring Championships is clear evidence of this, as most of the TvZ's come down to the Terran army of Marine/Marauder/Tank/Medivac dying to Ultra/Ling/Bane/Infestor, and the Zerg cleaning up with Infestor/Broodlord.
Terran would always be stockpiling minerals, killing scvs mean nothing since they might replace the scvs with a stronger army. Actually no. Terran is far more mineral-starved than gas-starved in TvZ and TvP because we refuse to use a large amount of units like the Thor and Raven, which makes SCV harassment far more effective as for every SCV we have to remake that's one less Marine, as well as delayed mining.
and lings/ultras + nydus has always been a very disappointing combo for me, you could lose ultras/infestors just because your lings are not completely unloaded yet or your lings are trying to load into the nydus before your ultras and losing those expensive units You can combine this with Overlord drops, using Zerglings as the vanguard for Ultralisks to come through, or vice versa, and use the Nydus worm exclusively to retreat the Ultralisks, as Zerglings are extremely cheap in the late-game and Zerg is more gas-starved.(If you really want to save the Zerglings go ahead and load them back up into the Overlords.) Something similar to this was suggested by someone else in a different thread.
It's difficult to justify whether your harassment was worth the damage or not imo.
But if you can put up some good replays, maybe I will change my opinion :D
a little more details would be nice in each section would be nice.
My question is:
if you are going ultra and ling, why go nydus because your army is so mobile already, nydus could be spotted by drops etc It circumvents cliffs, which means you can assault mineral lines, production, and supply more easily.
My thoughts in bold.Last edit: 2012-06-11 06:12:20 |
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| dynwar7 June 11 2012 11:20. Posts 1945 | Profile # | |
| | Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves.... |
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| iiGreetings Canada. June 11 2012 11:49. Posts 546 | Profile # |
On June 10 2012 22:40 ETisME wrote:
I find late game ZvT harassment almost useless, the game must be won by a nice deathball engagement and denying his expo
Terran would always be stockpiling minerals, killing scvs mean nothing since they might replace the scvs with a stronger army.
and lings/ultras + nydus has always been a very disappointing combo for me, you could lose ultras/infestors just because your lings are not completely unloaded yet or your lings are trying to load into the nydus before your ultras and losing those expensive units
It's difficult to justify whether your harassment was worth the damage or not imo.
But if you can put up some good replays, maybe I will change my opinion :D
a little more details would be nice in each section would be nice.
My question is:
if you are going ultra and ling, why go nydus because your army is so mobile already, nydus could be spotted by drops etc
Ostojiy showed some really really impressive use of nydus play with ultra ling and multi-prong attacks against bomber... it was really impressive... OH wait, day9 may have done a daily on it i think? Can't find the replay unfortunatly
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