hi tl.net! sorry for my bad english. i with my partner start play 2x2 2 season ago. we both 1x1 players. 90% games - vs ZT ZP opponents(ZZ - one Z usually switch to T\P) how do u think play P(me)+T(ally) vs ZP ZT: 1) on maps with(like python, fs..) / without rapma(like eye the storm, fortress ...). 2) vs PZ: a) when P go to 2gate goons(without zealots), z 9/12 pool. b) P 2gate zeals, Z - expand. c) P - goons, z 12 pool, expand, mutas. d) 2gate zeals+9pool. e) 12 nexus+9pool. f) other build? 3) vs TZ: a) T always go to tech(2-3 factory vulture). Z: expand(9, 10, 12) or 9/12pool. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- interested in the views of the B_rank_iccup or higher level. search gosu replays PT vs all.. thx
FlaShFTW United States. June 11 2012 01:54. Posts 4962
Flash: if me go to corsair(usually 2 port): me anyway cant help to my ally, if enemy team make 4 goliaf_drop + mutas to my main, usually me dead ^^ TZ more harder than PZ... mass mutalisks, mutaliks+Tanks - very hard...
zolotoi Russian Federation. June 11 2012 02:19. Posts 18
On June 11 2012 02:14 zolotoi wrote: Flash: if me go to corsair(usually 2 port): me anyway cant help to my ally, if enemy team make 4 goliaf_drop + mutas to my main, usually me dead ^^ TZ more harder than PZ... mass mutalisks, mutaliks+Tanks - very hard...
defend with sairs, kill all the mutas. you'll make a couple of goons too to defend from goliaths. then your ally with counter with mass mutas and you'll win.
Never Surrender. Never GG. Always Fighting. BW4LYF. Woo Jung Ho Never Forget.
Bill Murray United States. June 11 2012 19:36. Posts 7057
Im not good by any stretch of the imagination, but i do have a bit of teamplay experience.
There is a reason no pro teams ever goes PT. Its just weaker than the other 2 combinations mainly because of the extremely weak terran early game. They can literally not do anything to help their teammate until they get those 2 medics out. Getting your initial armies together could be a chore and the threat of backstabs is always there.
I'd think the best choice for the standard build is 2 gate zealot + marine medics. This combo will literally rape any other unit combination at the time it comes out (exept maybe vs vultures but it depends on micro and how well you manage to avoid getting mined to death). Toss needs to decide if they wanna go 3 gate or 2 gate core quite early. Against PZ, you probably just wanna 3 gate and mass zealots to kill one off. Against terran, 3 gate if the other terran went MM, 2 gate core if he went mech.
TP combo is generally regarded as one of the worst and IMO is especially bad against ZT because their Terran has more freedom in terms of his tech options than your Terran and gets a tremendous benefit from muta assistance if the game goes to midgame.
Against ZP I recommend your Protoss go 10/12 gates and pump zeal hard, adding tech only as he can afford it. Meanwhile your Terran should go old school 1 base TvZ style opening with 2 rax academy and factory before he ever considers expanding. If one of them gets greedy you should be able to find the correct timing window and press your attack. If they get aggressive they will probably go after your P since if they go after your T then your P can rally his zeals to help. It's important that your P do enough to hang on and if he is having trouble the Terran can send SCV along with whatever early marine force he has, but it still really falls on the P to hang in there as long as he can. There's nothing worse when you're the T and your P partner breaks in 5 seconds flat and then starts bitching "why weren't you there to help me?" Also, T should of course wall, but it's more important that marines pop out on the correct side than it is for the wall to be ling/zeal proof. If your wall isn't zeal proof (let alone ling proof), you can close the gap with SCV's long enough to hold out. I'm thinking in particular of 6 o'clock on Python.
Against ZT it really depends on what direction they choose to take. If their T goes mnm then there is a timing window they can use to try to wipe out your P if your T is going for metal. OTOH if they go metal then their Z can rely on stalling tactics. So it depends more on what their BO choices are AND it's going to depend a bit on which of you is the stronger player. If your P is stronger then I'd recommend doing similar openings as against ZP and if their T goes metal then double team their Z while your P immediately switches to cyber -> 3 gate goon. You want to do as much damage to their Z as possible with your combined early zeal/mnm force while your P is going to be responsible for keeping control of the flow of the game as much as possible while your T makes the switch to metal. He's going to be behind in the metal war but with his wall immediate retaliation with vults isn't much of an issue. Good goon management and not losing many of them to mines is important. T should have scanner up quick. If your T is better then you can have him go for metal and if you get bum rushed by both ling+mnm it's important that your T uses SCV+ marine as well as possible at the very least to limit reinforcements while you hold out. If both T players in the game are going mech it's okay if yours is a bit behind if your P makes the transition to goons smoothly and uses them effectively. However, in a war of tech to tech, you're going to be behind if they get muta + vult/tank.
The bottom line in general for TP is that your P needs to get very comfortable with the transition from 10/12 gate zeal into goons while your T needs to get comfortable with early game defense and assistance using marine+SCV. Although it sounds obvious, the better you come out of the early/early-mid game the better. TP ultimately can benefit a lot from its late game power and the fact that it needs less resources in a drawn out fight, but if you enter the later stages of the midgame in bad shape that advantage becomes moot. And if they are playing properly they have many opportunities to hurt you before the late game.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature