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[G] PvT 1 base Colossus Pressure

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy 1 2 3 4 All
 
 Adonminus   Israel. June 13 2012 18:26. Posts 486
Profile # 
Hello TL members! I'm adonminus, a highly ranked master player on eu who's expecting to be promoted to gm in season 8. Today is my birthday, and also my 200th post on TL. This is why I bring you this special guide to a strategy that I was developping all this year and I hope it will make a new revolution in PvT. Behold the 3 gate colo pressure:


Introduction:

+ Show Spoiler +

Early Game:

+ Show Spoiler +

Pressure Guide:


+ Show Spoiler +

Mid game transitions:

+ Show Spoiler +

Replays:


+ Show Spoiler +


Thanks for reading. I hope this will change PvT to destroy the myth that terran has advantage in early-mid game. Protoss is technologically superior to Terran, that's why they must always win. Good luck and have fun.
Last edit: 2012-07-07 02:15:13
Old Post

 
 Adonminus   Israel. June 13 2012 18:26. Posts 486
Profile # 
Feel free to critize, give feedback and try to improve this build. Also tell me if I have made any errors in the guide, or if things in replay don't match the guide even though I said they do.

Some extras:

Extra replay:

I played another game today, and I lost my warp prism with colossus though after the engagement. First of all I didn't pull the colossus back from the marines enough, and 2nd Ohana has this double cliff which is really bad for this build, you can't pull colossus back. But my fail allowed me to play the game into mid-late game and eventually win: http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28P%29NOMAdonminus_vs_%28T%29DenLilleMand/20066


Note about scouting:

About scouting with probe, sure you can do that, you'll lose a portion of minerals for more defense against cheeses and pressures. But on the other hand, not scouting is kinda greedy I guess. You can defend cheeses by chronoing an additional zealot and stalker from your gateway, and delaying the other 2 gates. Then you could strike with delayed 4 gates with the speed prism colossus. I'll show you a replay as soon as I'll find it.
Last edit: 2012-06-13 21:27:03
Old Post

 
 Rimak   Latvia. June 13 2012 18:41. Posts 408
Profile # 
Happy birthday Adonminus.
You are awesome!
! <3 1A
Old Post

 
 markonovak82   Slovenia. June 13 2012 18:46. Posts 6
Profile # 
Did you forget 1st assimilator maybe?
Old Post

 
 Mesha   Bosnia-Herzegovina. June 13 2012 18:46. Posts 434
Profile Blog # 
I saw a couple of high level players doing something like this (babyK, puCK, ...). Really cool strategy. It looks like a really precise and detailed guide. Nice job, i will definetely try to add this to my fairly limited PvT arsenal. I gotta check your replays at once! I love this kind of aggressive and unorthodox strategies. Also i think since this is micro intensive strategy, it's probably great practice for both, high and lower level players.
Reality hits you hard bro.
Old Post

 
 Nihilnovi   Sweden. June 13 2012 19:01. Posts 677
Profile # 
Hm, 1 (delayed!)gas 1 base colo with speed prism and a lot of stalkers?
Props to you for making it work, but how do you handle the game if the pressure fails? Go up to 4 gas asap?
Old Post

 
 Adonminus   Israel. June 13 2012 19:07. Posts 486
Profile # 

On June 13 2012 19:01 Nihilnovi wrote:
Hm, 1 (delayed!)gas 1 base colo with speed prism and a lot of stalkers?
Props to you for making it work, but how do you handle the game if the pressure fails? Go up to 4 gas asap?

It's not delayed gas, I forgot to put 1st asim in bo.
I get expo while pressuring, so I'm not that behind if it fails.
Last edit: 2012-06-13 19:09:05
Old Post

 
 oOOoOphidian   United States. June 13 2012 19:17. Posts 1235
Profile # 
I take it this build is only good against a terran who opens 1 rax expand into 3 rax, double gas, and early add-ons? It's a very minimal push initially and as you said if that doesn't do damage you have to hope that colossus drops will keep you in the game.

I'm looking at it and thinking how poorly it would do against any 1 base build or even something like various marine/scv attacks after a fast expand. The hellion/marine/medivac build would also be quite strong as you don't have many units and they can keep you in your base while getting out vikings and more units to deny your drop harass.

Fortunately for those wanting to try this, the vast majority of terran players will simply execute the MKP or Bomber style marine/medivac timing every game, so you can pull out the wins for ladder points. I'm more a fan of the economic version that puCK uses, though.
http://www.twitch.tv/ooooophidian
Old Post

 
 Adonminus   Israel. June 13 2012 19:40. Posts 486
Profile # 

On June 13 2012 19:17 oOOoOphidian wrote:
I take it this build is only good against a terran who opens 1 rax expand into 3 rax, double gas, and early add-ons? It's a very minimal push initially and as you said if that doesn't do damage you have to hope that colossus drops will keep you in the game.

I'm looking at it and thinking how poorly it would do against any 1 base build or even something like various marine/scv attacks after a fast expand. The hellion/marine/medivac build would also be quite strong as you don't have many units and they can keep you in your base while getting out vikings and more units to deny your drop harass.

Fortunately for those wanting to try this, the vast majority of terran players will simply execute the MKP or Bomber style marine/medivac timing every game, so you can pull out the wins for ladder points. I'm more a fan of the economic version that puCK uses, though.

It's good vs almost any expand build. The hellion/marime/medivac hits when you already got colossus so it doesn't work. And it does work vs 1 base simply because 1 base builds pressure you and colossus is great unit to defend. Though early marine scv all ins or proxies are really good vs this. Could you link me puCK's version? I want to check it out.

Also remember that this is just a build, each build has weaknesses.
Old Post

 
 xSTaRFiSHx   Germany. June 13 2012 20:01. Posts 161
Profile # 
I absolutely enjoy ur attitude and humor.
Thanks for the guide, I'll totally try it! :D

Edit: Just watched the first Replay.
Now im even more in love with the build. It seems to utilize the real strenght of warpgates to an extend almost no others toss-opening does.
I always wanted to play Protoss in an agressive fashion, using speed and harrassment to bully my enemy.
Thank you so much and happy birthday. <3
Last edit: 2012-06-13 20:29:07
I wonder if there will be cake...
Old Post

  lazyo   Germany. June 13 2012 20:06. Posts 90Profile # 
Cool build, speed prism collo is definately one of the most fun things to play in the game.
I have just one criticism:
Why no scouting? Going 1gate robo with only zeal/stalker when your opponent could have done an 11rax marine all-in (possibly proxied 2nd rax) is not exactly very safe. For boX it's OK to do but on ladder there is just too much cheese to tech that greedy blindly. It's not like those 70 minerals really really matter for 99% of players anyway.
Happy Birthday!
Last edit: 2012-06-13 20:06:46
Old Post

 
 JesMaz   United States. June 13 2012 20:21. Posts 16
Profile # 
Oh, Em, Gee, I am totally stealing this build. Thank you for sharing it!
Within you there is a stillness and sanctuary to which you can retreat at any time and be yourself.
Old Post

 
 NET   United States. June 13 2012 20:37. Posts 645
Profile Blog # 
I saw White-Ra doing this build on his stream, it looks really strong. Its safe vs many Terran builds and the edge you get when Terran expands quickly is nice.

I notice a lot of Terran's try to bunker contain, expecting the Protoss to be taking their fast natural. And boom they get hit with a colossus and their army is on the other side of the map. Fun to execute as well.

I was trying to mess with the build myself and didn't know if I liked getting fast range or fast prism first. Either way awesome that you have a writeup we can go to to try and polish up the build and its variants.

Edit: Added some games I recently played. Just casual fun games. These games show me trying to mess with this build after watching White-Ra do it. By no means are they refined or anything. They are Fast Range Slow Prism. FRSP.

Fast Colossus Range Variant

Another Fast Colossus Range Variant
Last edit: 2012-06-13 21:05:09
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
Old Post

 
 Adonminus   Israel. June 13 2012 21:01. Posts 486
Profile # 
I played another game today, and I lost my warp prism with colossus though after the engagement. First of all I didn't pull the colossus back from the marines enough, and 2nd Ohana has this double cliff which is really bad for this build, you can't pull colossus back. But my fail allowed me to play the game into mid-late game and eventually win: http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28P%29NOMAdonminus_vs_%28T%29DenLilleMand/20066

About scouting with probe, sure you can do that, you'll lose a portion of minerals for more defense against cheeses and pressures. But on the other hand, not scouting is kinda greedy I guess. You can defend cheeses by chronoing an additional zealot and stalker from your gateway, and delaying the other 2 gates. Then you could strike with delayed 4 gates with the speed prism colossus. I'll show you a replay as soon as I'll find it.

Very old replay: http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28P%29Adonminus_vs_%28T%29DBS/17505. I wasn't very good back then, so I forgot warp gate research, and delayed the gateways like that, so you do the same thing without forgetting it against early pressure like 2 rax mm. That way 2 zealots 2 stalkers can hold and later colossus is out.
Last edit: 2012-06-13 21:23:29
Old Post

 
 NET   United States. June 13 2012 21:09. Posts 645
Profile Blog # 
I saw your game vs Dragoon. Its pretty impressive to beat a player of that caliber, and I even think I saw you beat him on his stream if I'm correct. Very entertaining to watch and even more fun to play :D

This build works very well for the current 1 rax fe style Terran's play these days and it can hold off some wacky pressure builds Terran can throw. I like it.
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
Old Post

  lazyo   Germany. June 14 2012 01:22. Posts 90Profile # 
In general no probe scout is OK sicne you can get information with a zeal/stalker poke.
I'm just worried about a well-hidden 11 11 rax. with 8-10 scvs pulled. You will not be able to scout that out with your poke and it moves out very shortly after you arrive at his base. You will have WG 3/4 done and 2 stalker 1 zealot at best. Which just doesn't cut it.
Old Post

 
 BronzeKnee   United States. June 14 2012 01:29. Posts 2630
Profile # 
Hwangsin is pretty much the master of one base Colossus builds, and this is pretty much his build, except for the expansion. I will say that his build largely doesn't work at High Masters and GM but I am looking forward to watching the replays to see how well this transitions.


On June 14 2012 01:22 lazyo wrote:
In general no probe scout is OK sicne you can get information with a zeal/stalker poke.
I'm just worried about a well-hidden 11 11 rax. with 8-10 scvs pulled. You will not be able to scout that out with your poke and it moves out very shortly after you arrive at his base. You will have WG 3/4 done and 2 stalker 1 zealot at best. Which just doesn't cut it.


You could always Probe scout, and just delay the timing a bit if you were that concerned. Alternatively, you could get 1 Stalker and 1 Sentry and a Zealot and the FF would buy you time to get more defenses up, thought it could delay the timing slightly in terms of gas.

I would actually just Probe scout and get up a quicker second gas and get a Sentry instead of the second Stalker, all while cutting the Zealot. Should end up about even in the end economically, and you get the early scout so you can adjust the build if you see cheese.
Last edit: 2012-06-14 01:36:38
Old Post

 
 zmansman17   United States. June 14 2012 01:31. Posts 2181
Profile # 
I will personally attest that even if I know this is coming, there have been many times where I have just lost even with good defense. This can be very hard to hold.
♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞
Old Post

 
 oOOoOphidian   United States. June 14 2012 05:57. Posts 1235
Profile # 

On June 13 2012 19:40 Adonminus wrote:

Show nested quote +


It's good vs almost any expand build. The hellion/marime/medivac hits when you already got colossus so it doesn't work. And it does work vs 1 base simply because 1 base builds pressure you and colossus is great unit to defend. Though early marine scv all ins or proxies are really good vs this. Could you link me puCK's version? I want to check it out.

Also remember that this is just a build, each build has weaknesses.

I'm mostly talking about how weak this build is before your first colossus pops (if dragon simply ran up your ramp when your warp prism was in the middle of the map he would have easily killed you) as well as how vulnerable it is to any sort of base trade by the terran - if they attack you while you are attacking them, it goes a lot better for them unless you already have colossus and speed.

Seems to me you're better off only actually doing this build if you scout a 1 rax expand, imo. You could easily just play normal if you scout something else.

Unfortunately puCK doesn't save vods on his channel, but the basic shell of the build is similar aside from getting a nexus in the process and focusing mainly on the colossus drop while playing otherwise fairly standard (just with delayed sentries, of course). That build is definitely harder to do properly, though, as you actually need skill with the colossus drop and it has to do damage as well as transition. Anyone who wants the easy route stick to the 1 base version, it's strong and simple.
http://www.twitch.tv/ooooophidian
Old Post

 
 Belha   Italy. June 14 2012 06:10. Posts 2359
Profile # 
I love your refreshing out of the ordinary strats. Thx for sharing ^^
Please Blizz buff speevacs for TvP!
Old Post

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