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| Hollow Canada. June 15 2012 12:51. Posts 2062 | Profile Blog # |
On June 15 2012 09:20 Pwere wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 07:28 sandroba wrote:
On June 15 2012 04:56 Pwere wrote:
You forgot to mention Reduced damage from missile% on bracers, as well as -dmg% from elites/missile on chest/amulet. Two very, very good (and cheap) stats. Melee isn't nearly as good for Monks.
I also think Block% isn't nearly as important for Monks as it is for barbs, because a lot of our damage mitigation is in dodge, meaning that we get hit for more base damage, which means that a shield doesn't block nearly as much, %wise. It's obviously really good, but if you want to clear Act 4 on a budget, there are better ways to invest your money, since block% got really, really expensive.
Yes damage reduction from both ranged and melee are quite nice if you get them as a bonus, but I don't think they are the main stats you should go after, because in my opinion what kills you (me) the most is the elemental damage. -%Damage from elites would be quite nice actually, but I'm not sure if it works with the elemental damage they do (prob does). About the block, that's a common misconception. You are still blocking X% of the attacks that go through your dodge, so despite it being less attacks than a character that has low dodge value, the damage reduction from that attacks that would in fact decrease your HP is the same. It interacts exactly the same way as any other form of mitigation (Armor, Resistances, -X% damage from Y, passives, inherent melee reduction from barbs and monks).
% reduction vs ranged is great because those are the things resolve are not applied to, and they hurt a lot. As for damage from elites, it seems like it affects everything they do, minions included. As for block, that is not what I meant. What I mean is that a hit that hits us for 20k would hit a barb for 16k (or any other lower amount) because their shout gives them a lot of resist, while our mantra gives us dodge. So if they block 4k, they blocked 25% of the hit, while we only blocked 20%. It really isn't nearly as good as dodge, because, mainly in act 4, stuff hits you for way more than 4k, plus I don't think block works against desecrate, molten, etc. but dodge does.
Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 07:21 sandroba wrote:
On June 15 2012 01:24 Heh_ wrote:
Wondering why you value life on spirit spent so highly. If you use big spells which cost 50 spirit (like mantras), it only heals you for a small amount. Care to explain why? I have a monk at lvl55, I don't know if it makes a difference in lvl60.
Let's say you have 30 spi->life on your gear. You have 2 attacks per second that generate 6 spirit each. So that should translate to 6x30 =180 life on hit which is already very good, correct? But it gets even better. Since you don't need to spend that healing when you don't need, contrary to LoH, you can burst as much as 150 spirit at a time it and get the full value when you are in need of healing. That prob beats 250 LoH.
This is not entirely correct. You can only gain spirit once from one attack, but your Life on Hit is triggered once per attack per target. So Life per spirit spent is only worth that much LoHit vs a single foe, which is usually not a problem for monks. It is still a good stat, but having none is really not a problem.
LpSS and LoH are both crucial stats to have if you're going to tank anything past A2.
OP: If you have 30 LpSS on your gear, and you cast your mantra, that's 30 Life x 50 Spirit, so 1500 life healed. If you have 60 on your Fist Weapon, 62 with Transcendence, and 30 with your Helmet, that's 7600 life healed for every Mantra (50 Spirit). If you are farming A3/A4, your only attack is your spirit generator (most likely Deadly Reach/Keen Eye) and your spirit spender is your Mantra, because that is what offers max survivability, so that is the number you are most often healing in fights, not counting your LoH. Life per Spirit Spent is the most important thing to build around, and it is what most Monks don't understand. Also, most people don't understand the value of this stat so you can get really good prices on claws/helms that rolled a high number. There's only two slots for it so they are the most important slots imo. I have a Tzo Krin and a Fist and with Transcendence I heal well over 7000 hp every single time I use my Mantra. That is no small amount when you spam your Mantra constantly. You can tank everything in the game. Combined with over 1.3k life on hit, I never die.
Also OP, you say:
"Remember that your weapon AS gets multiplied by every other IAS you have so value this highly."
While this is true, there is more to take into account. First, I also thought that AS was the main priority on a weapon, but it turns out that since this is the most expensive stat on a weapon, these items are not the best to look for when you are trying to get to the point where you can farm A3/A4 easily and you need to upgrade all your gear. Because of your needs (high LoH and high LpSS, as well as good enough dps), you will never be able to afford a Fist that has rolled high stats of those PLUS Attack Speed. Remember, as far as 1 handers go, only Fists can have Life per Spirit Spent. These Fists are so rare that they are priced at ridiculous amounts when they are found. Also an important thing to remember is that Blizzard is going to nerf AS, and it is very likely that what they nerf is that the weapon AS is no longer multiplied by every other IAS, so it's even more of a reason not to be building around it. Even though it at first seems best and logical, it goes against the logic of max survivability because you give up good LoH/LpSS/DPS for the AS roll. So, my advice to Monks is to get good ATS (minimum 2.3 attacks per second) but to get there using your gear instead of the ATS on a weapon. It's fairly easy, a Fist is 1.40, and you get Gloves, the Tzo Krin and all your jewelry to have ATS 13%+ and you'll get over that.Last edit: 2012-06-15 14:55:18 |
| | It was enough for one Hindu prince to see a cripple, an old man, and a corpse to understand everything; we see them and understand nothing, for nothing changes in our life. |
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| Pwere Canada. June 15 2012 14:31. Posts 952 | Profile # |
Heh, I'm not here to argue the value of LoSS vs LoHit: both are good stats. I was simply saying that LoHit heals a minimum of its value, and you will hit multiple mobs many times. You can count LoSS as being worth 4-6 LoHit and not be too far off the mark either way.
I know that Deadly Reach has a minimum of 75% LoHit, and it might be 100%, per target. It's really easy to hit multiple targets, so you heal a lot. I prefer FoT, either Thunderclap or Lightning Flash, since it is so much faster. You end up healing more/generating more spirit and stunlock trash mobs, but both are valid choices. FoT most likely doesn't proc for 100% per target, but it's still a very high number, often healing 5x your LoHit vs large groups.
As for the defensive value of Monks vs Barbs, I would argue that 50% all resist is better than OwE, considering you can still get phys/all and then get the 50%. Our dodge saves us so we end up being a bit more tanky, but the shield is not as effective. The difference might not be that big though, but I still found a shield with high block % to be very expensive for what it gives, compared to simply getting high dex/double res. I'd say it's one of the last upgrade you should afford, depending on your luck getting your weapon/amulet.Last edit: 2012-06-15 14:33:51 |
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| Hollow Canada. June 15 2012 14:37. Posts 2062 | Profile Blog # |
Oops, just want to clarify that I got confused with both of your posts (OP and you) because I had 'Show nested quote' on. I was thinking he was messing up with the post you quoted from him, while I thought you were undervaluing LpSS because of the end of your post. Edited for more clarity.
Yeah, I experimented with FoT a bit as well but I don't understand the value of the teleport rune though, can you explain why choose it vs dodge? Either way, I found that for Siege runs I have a much easier time with the +50% armor against some elites, but for everything else I prefer the speed of FoT and usually allows me to survive well against the rest.
And I agree about the shield. I have a 20% block, max block amount shield with double high res and vit/str/dext and I feel like it's my best piece of gear. Previously tried playing with a 20% stormshield and the first one is just so much better, and I really don't feel like I need any more block % at all when I heal/dodge so much with a good pool of vitality. I mean, it would be nice to have more, but it's just not cost efficient to look for it on a shield, and getting a Justice Lantern with ATS is out of price, while trading my Tzo Krin for an Helm of Command would seem like a slight mistake for my build.Last edit: 2012-06-15 14:55:35 |
| | It was enough for one Hindu prince to see a cripple, an old man, and a corpse to understand everything; we see them and understand nothing, for nothing changes in our life. |
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| Pwere Canada. June 15 2012 15:30. Posts 952 | Profile # |
The value of teleport is to speed up farming, and to catch up to annoying kiting ranged mobs. That, and vs goblins. Dodge rune makes them disappear so fast... The problem with Deadly Reach is that you heal so much slower than FoT. You also deal way less damage, mostly vs fast stuff that surrounds you.
To use the teleport rune effectively however, you have to know the trick to not teleport when you don't want to: You have to hold Shift and target behind monsters. As long as you keep your mouse off any monster, you won't teleport. This is vital vs molten/plague/desecrate.
FWIW, the first time I cleared act 4, I was using the dodge rune. |
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