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| Guardian85 June 14 2012 16:44. Posts 155 | Profile # | |
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 Sea_Food Finland. June 14 2012 19:24. Posts 1612 | Profile Blog # |
Looks pretty.
How ever, this map has like 0 pathing blocking cliffs, and 0 normal bases.
100% open so its pretty unplayable.Last edit: 2012-06-14 19:24:49 |
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| Sjokola Netherlands. June 14 2012 20:04. Posts 307 | Profile # |
This isn't really enough information.
Edit: Check other threads to see what they gave for side infoLast edit: 2012-06-14 20:05:15 |
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| Guardian85 June 14 2012 20:08. Posts 155 | Profile # |
Sea_Food, did you try the map?
It does have chockepoints, its just not the way you usually have them.
I know how blocking cliffs work, but this is just another twist.
The pathing blocking is through the river, where there are Keypoints with Xel'naga towers. |
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| Guardian85 June 14 2012 20:22. Posts 155 | Profile # |
Ok so ill put in this to describe a little.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m7pBS.jpg)
Blue - Is linked starting locations. (linked as in allied)
Yellow - Is possible expasion bases.
Green - Is Chockepoints with Xel'naga towers.
Red - Is LOS blocker Bushes.Last edit: 2012-06-15 01:54:00 |
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| Sea_Food Finland. June 14 2012 20:50. Posts 1612 | Profile Blog # |
On June 14 2012 20:08 Guardian85 wrote:
Sea_Food, did you try the map?
It does have chockepoints, its just not the way you usually have them.
I know how blocking cliffs work, but this is just another twist.
The pathing blocking is through the river, where there are Keypoints with Xel'naga towers.
10 full bases would be too few for a 2v2 map, you have 10 bases, out of which 4 are half bases.
The distance from main to either of the 2 chokes in the map is half the map. How are you supposed to defend both of those wide choke points against early rushes?
Normal map analyzer look like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
here is a rough version of your map:
+ Show Spoiler +
See the difference? |
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| Guardian85 June 14 2012 21:09. Posts 155 | Profile # |
Ok, so Your suggesting there should be more chocke points closer to each base?
Like a pocket sort of around each base?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vFBg0.png)
RED - Pocket
Blue - minerals
Green - base |
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| Guardian85 June 14 2012 21:12. Posts 155 | Profile # |
| Have you tested the map btw Sea_Food? |
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| Toboe United States. June 14 2012 21:38. Posts 263 | Profile Blog # |
Here ya go
+ Show Spoiler [analyzer images] +
Edit: to see comparable analysis of 2v2 maps, see my post here.
It looks pretty and different, but the lack of clear features, true symmetry between the top and bottom, and lack of expansions could all be worked on if you want people to actually play on the map.Last edit: 2012-06-14 21:39:13 |
| | Immortals are your friend, you can tell by the way they waddle at you |
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| EneMecH United Kingdom. June 14 2012 23:37. Posts 218 | Profile # |
Guys, IT'S A 2v2 MAP!
They should be more variety and asymmetrical in my opinion, after all, isn't that what 2v2s are all about? |
| | Tears soaks each hand the dealer's dealt. But time taught me how to see every second as heaven even when they're perfectly disguised as hell. |
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| moskonia Israel. June 15 2012 00:14. Posts 931 | Profile # |
On June 14 2012 23:37 EneMecH wrote:
Guys, IT'S A 2v2 MAP!
They should be more variety and asymmetrical in my opinion, after all, isn't that what 2v2s are all about?
No, even though 2v2 is not 1v1 in metagame and competitiveness, there should still be maps with decent distance and expansions, if you can't defend your own base, not to talk about your natural, it is not a good map, even for team games.
Chokes are there for a reason, cause without chokes and high grounds the defenders advantage gets really small and then maps become rush fests, which is not a good thing. |
| | "He who learns to walk, should never crawl again" | |
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| Guardian85 June 15 2012 01:53. Posts 155 | Profile # |
Is there a map analyser included in the Map editor?
Because if there is i havent seen it yet.
If not, where can i get my hand on this software?
Thanks in advance. |
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| TheFish7 United States. June 15 2012 02:40. Posts 1205 | Profile # |
Map analyzer is available here
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=132627
The map is very pretty, and its nice to have a different take on map making in general, but in this case there are some glaring issues which I think kill the fun of this map a bit.
+ Show Spoiler +Mineral placement is very random - it should be standardized. I tested the map and different spawn locations have different levels of income at the same number of workers. The good news is that this is easy to fix - just copy+paste the mineral placement from ladder maps to ensure the right income levels. The start locations are also not in good places - some are closer to the mineral line than others. they should all be flush to the mineral line, and each of the starting bases should be 8m2g, mixing in gold minerals just messes up build orders. Sure, you can have weird bases beyond the main, but I think changing the standard will only turn people off.
While varying the terrain with the height tool adds realism, it makes it hard to control your army since units are now moving around the screen in multiple dimensions. It is also unclear where units can and cannot path.
Lack of a standard choke at the main means that players will need to either rush or place bunkers/cannons/spines in their main every game. I don't mind playing like that, but I am sure many people will be turned off by this.
I really like the concept of using the aesthetics to create the terrain, rather than the other way around and I feel like it could work if the above issues are worked out. |
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| Timetwister22 United States. June 15 2012 07:19. Posts 309 | Profile # |
| The height tool is used way too much here. As a result, this will cause serious frame rate drops, bugs, graphical glitches, and game crashes. Ironman had similar deco around the borders of Ohana using the height tool, but had to remove it due to these technical problems so it could be added to ladder. That in itself makes the map unplayable. |
| | ESV Mapmaking Team | twitter.com/ESV_Timetwister |
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| Guardian85 June 15 2012 09:32. Posts 155 | Profile # |
Thanks for the replies guys, even though some has already stated that this map is unplayable a couple of times, i will prove them wrong.. and get back to modifying the needed things to make it playable 
On a sidenote, i was looking on that link for the analyzer but didnt find where or how to download?Last edit: 2012-06-15 09:32:33 |
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| DoubleReed United States. June 15 2012 09:57. Posts 3133 | Profile Blog # |
| This looks like a great map for Stratego. Last edit: 2012-06-15 09:58:02 |
| | Baby, you want to make like Stravinsky and perform a Rite of Spring? |
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| TheFish7 United States. June 15 2012 10:08. Posts 1205 | Profile # | |
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| Guardian85 June 16 2012 00:44. Posts 155 | Profile # | |
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| Guardian85 June 16 2012 12:14. Posts 155 | Profile # |
Ehm, as soon as a map is "off the recent list" noone reads the thread? 
I spendt 19 hours none stop with out food, only water, to make these changes and adapt them to the map, with texturing, pathing, cliffs, rescource balancing, base defence, chocke points, backdoors etc. etc.
And if you look at the earlier pictures, and the current picture, you'll soon figure the extent of the changes.
Hope someone care to atleast take a look.Last edit: 2012-06-16 12:22:54 |
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| Chargelot June 16 2012 12:32. Posts 2274 | Profile Blog # |
On June 16 2012 12:14 Guardian85 wrote:Ehm, as soon as a map is "off the recent list" noone reads the thread? I spendt 19 hours none stop with out food, only water, to make these changes and adapt them to the map, with texturing, pathing, cliffs, rescource balancing, base defence, chocke points, backdoors etc. etc. And if you look at the earlier pictures, and the current picture, you'll soon figure the extent of the changes. Hope someone care to atleast take a look.
You are not entitled to feedback or attention. Please don't act like we owe you anything. This thread isn't getting attention because community effort is usually invested into maps which stand a chance of becoming a tournament or ladder map. Sending us on a fucking guilt trip, which doesn't really work unless you were being forced to act stupid like that, doesn't help you at all. If anything, we should all ignore you now.
Some pros:
- The mountainous corner looks cool actually. It's something we haven't really seen.
- The rocky looking edge of the water banks is also pretty cool.
Some cons:
- Even on the updated map, the pathing is one of those awkward jokes that only the speaker thinks is funny, and he bursts out hysterically laughing while everyone else in the room remains completely silent.
- The extremely low number of attack paths (2) means you can easily split the map in half and turtle on ... 8 bases?
- There is a lot of flora where these doesn't need to be. It becomes visually distracting in the game.
- You use the height tool a little too much inland. You should avoid making it look like it's been shelled by artillery cannons.
Last edit: 2012-06-16 12:33:45 |
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