| dynwar7 June 14 2012 19:07. Posts 1945 | Profile # |
EDIT: Great....will a mod please add [D] to the start of the title of this topic....my apologies.
Hi everyone.
After reading a few threads that seem to imply that out beloved Tanks are simply not cost-efficient/ not useful in TvZ (and TvP generally but the focus is on TvZ), I would love to hear your opinions regarding tanks.
These 2 threads
Going tank-less BioMech
Bio only in TvZ
And one I myself made:
MKP style TvZ
all seem to say that tanks are not needed in TvZ. They seem to say that after 2-3 shots, tanks get run over by lings, and that is not cost efficient. Tanks make your whole army slow and this buys time for the Zergs. Tanks do so little damage to Ultralisks, which seems to be the current trend for Zergs. If they are true, then are tanks still viable in TvZ? Or perhaps only for defensive purpose such as holding a roach/ling/bling all-in?
Or perhaps, it matters what level you are? For example, in lower level plays, micro and macro are not so good, therefore it is good to rely on tanks to kill infestors/banelings, whereas in higher level plays, players dont necessarily have to rely on tanks?
Poll: Do you believe that tanks are useless in TvZ?Yes, Tanks are still viable in TvZ (314) 78% Nope, sadly they are useless (57) 14% Viable in lower level games (23) 6% Viable in higher level games (8) 2% 402 total votes Your vote: Do you believe that tanks are useless in TvZ? (Vote): Yes, Tanks are still viable in TvZ
(Vote): Nope, sadly they are useless
(Vote): Viable in lower level games
(Vote): Viable in higher level games
Last edit: 2012-06-14 19:08:37 |
| | Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves.... |
|
|
| SC_Ghost United Kingdom. June 14 2012 19:11. Posts 64 | Profile # |
I voted Yes, they are still viable. Tanks of course still have a use in TvZ against the use of banelings and infestors, as target firing them during an engagement gives you a significant advantage. Of course, vs late-game compositions (read: Hive tech) tanks become less significant, however up until that point they are totally viable.
It's the same as Ghost usage in TvP: They are your front line, when your enemy engages you suicide your ghosts to 'blanket-EMP' his army or Snipe every HT before engaging for a significant advantage.
edit: A lot of the time when I read about Tanks becoming less useful vs Z, the OP almost always seems to forget how useful target firing is and what tanks are actually used for rather than a broad range of AoE auto-fire. The strength of Tanks is stacking their damage (target firing) rather than spreading their damage (AI-firing).
Another point is, Tanks have never been good vs Ultras and Terrans have always transitioned out of Tanks when Ultras were on the field. AFAIK nothing has changed in that regard since the beginning.Last edit: 2012-06-14 19:28:22 |
|
|
| Wildmoon Thailand. June 14 2012 19:13. Posts 2695 | Profile # |
| Just watched Mvp beated Line with marine/tanks. I think tanks still has its use especially holding timing push. |
| | "A man is what he chooses to be" |
|
|
| Clarity_nl Netherlands. June 14 2012 19:19. Posts 3283 | Profile # |
| I hope terrans stop making tanks so I can just make 70% banelings and win at the 10 min mark. |
| |
|
| ArchAngelSC England. June 14 2012 19:23. Posts 192 | Profile # |
Tanks are not cost effective. They die very easily to lings. They slow you down and give the zerg pleanty of time to react. They do almost nothing to ultras and work against you vs broodlords. But if you don't build them I've found zergs just go mass baneling infestors and there's not much terran can do against that without them unfortunately.
They are still very good against roaches though so that's something I guess. |
|
|
| teamamerica United States. June 14 2012 19:27. Posts 660 | Profile Blog # |
| Voted yes - tanks are good to hold midgame mass ling/bling busts (off of 4hatch), and marine-tank is good vs muta/ling/bling. |
|
|
 Sea_Food Finland. June 14 2012 19:28. Posts 1612 | Profile Blog # |
1. You messed up the poll epicly.
2. Tanks vs zerg is the most cost efficient thing in the game. With focus fire 1 tank shot, just one shot kills 7 banelings which cost 350/175, while 1 tank cost 150/125.
3. Tanks arent really that slow, equal speed as unstimmed marines.
Also tanks are a must vs infestors unless you have perfect ghost controll with ghost, that nobody has. Nothing else has enough range to kill infestors before they kill every marine with fungal. Sure you can split but meh.Last edit: 2012-06-14 19:29:39 |
|
|
| SpeCtor June 14 2012 19:29. Posts 229 | Profile # |
no terran can split marines against 50 banelings no matter who you are. the tank help reduce those numbers and can help tank bane hits.
if one doesnt go tanks, a zerg can just mass bane and win. |
|
|
| dynwar7 June 14 2012 19:29. Posts 1945 | Profile # |
Thanks for the opinion so far and votes guys.
Yes they can be useful at times, but they are not cost efficient because generally after 2/3 shots they get overrun
And yes for defensive purpose/holding timing pushes tanks are great. |
| | Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves.... |
|
|
| Kogan Germany. June 14 2012 19:29. Posts 83 | Profile # |
i had to laugh hard at the thread name...tanks useless ?? ind TvZ ?? who told u that ? but right...why doesnt every terran just play pure bio like marineking SOMETIMES does and micros like marineking, its no problem 
edit : ofc after like 3 shots they are dead but till then every tank can kill much more than its own cost, especially with good targetfireLast edit: 2012-06-14 19:33:13 |
|
|
| dynwar7 June 14 2012 19:30. Posts 1945 | Profile # |
On June 14 2012 19:28 Sea_Food wrote:
1. You messed up the poll epicly.
2. Tanks vs zerg is the most cost efficient thing in the game. With focus fire 1 tank shot, just one shot kills 7 banelings which cost 350/175, while 1 tank cost 150/125.
3. Tanks arent really that slow, equal speed as unstimmed marines.
Also tanks are a must vs infestors unless you have perfect ghost controll with ghost, that nobody has. Nothing else has enough range to kill infestors before they kill every marine with fungal. Sure you can split but meh.
Why did I mess up the poll epicly?
And when I say tanks are slow of course I meant the siegeing and unsiegeing. |
| | Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves.... |
|
|
| Sea_Food Finland. June 14 2012 19:31. Posts 1612 | Profile Blog # |
On June 14 2012 19:30 dynwar7 wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 19:28 Sea_Food wrote:
1. You messed up the poll epicly.
2. Tanks vs zerg is the most cost efficient thing in the game. With focus fire 1 tank shot, just one shot kills 7 banelings which cost 350/175, while 1 tank cost 150/125.
3. Tanks arent really that slow, equal speed as unstimmed marines.
Also tanks are a must vs infestors unless you have perfect ghost controll with ghost, that nobody has. Nothing else has enough range to kill infestors before they kill every marine with fungal. Sure you can split but meh.
Why did I mess up the poll epicly? And when I say tanks are slow of course I meant the siegeing and unsiegeing.
Do you think tanks are useless in TvZ
Awnser:
Yes they are viable.Last edit: 2012-06-14 19:32:14 |
|
|
| SC_Ghost United Kingdom. June 14 2012 19:33. Posts 64 | Profile # |
On June 14 2012 19:29 dynwar7 wrote:
Thanks for the opinion so far and votes guys.
Yes they can be useful at times, but they are not cost efficient because generally after 2/3 shots they get overrun
And yes for defensive purpose/holding timing pushes tanks are great.
Personally I think that's exactly how Tanks are supposed to be used. 5 Tanks with 2/3 shots of target firing will kill a whole bunch of Banelings/Infestors that your marines will clear up the rest of the battle no-sweat. Tanks are supposed to be your front line and buffer the Zergling swarm for your marines.
On June 14 2012 19:11 SC_Ghost wrote:
The strength of Tanks is stacking their damage (target firing) rather than spreading their damage (AI-firing).
Last edit: 2012-06-14 19:35:03 |
|
|
| Kogan Germany. June 14 2012 19:34. Posts 83 | Profile # |
On June 14 2012 19:31 Sea_Food wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 19:30 dynwar7 wrote:
On June 14 2012 19:28 Sea_Food wrote:
1. You messed up the poll epicly.
2. Tanks vs zerg is the most cost efficient thing in the game. With focus fire 1 tank shot, just one shot kills 7 banelings which cost 350/175, while 1 tank cost 150/125.
3. Tanks arent really that slow, equal speed as unstimmed marines.
Also tanks are a must vs infestors unless you have perfect ghost controll with ghost, that nobody has. Nothing else has enough range to kill infestors before they kill every marine with fungal. Sure you can split but meh.
Why did I mess up the poll epicly? And when I say tanks are slow of course I meant the siegeing and unsiegeing.
Do you think tanks are useless in TvZ Awnser: Yes they are viable.
true, i was quite confused at first^^ |
|
|
| `dunedain June 14 2012 19:47. Posts 450 | Profile # |
Yea, poll doesn't make sense.
Tanks are good though. They require patience and good positioning, as well as proper buffering. But they can win you many a battle with proper target firing and a good spread. |
| | "In order to be created, a work of art must first make use of the dark forces of the soul." ~Albert Camus |
|
|
| Baseic Netherlands. June 14 2012 19:48. Posts 310 | Profile # |
Tanks are so strong TvZ, I honestly can't remember the last time I lost to an even match bio terran, mech on the other hand...
But really vs. bio I just go 2 base infestors, and then they need such ridiculous micro and awareness to not instantly die. Also I don't believe there is a viable way to hold roach/ling/bane all-in without tanks. |
| |
|
| DifuntO Greece. June 14 2012 19:56. Posts 1202 | Profile # |
They will be useless after HotS,because of the Viper and charge Ultralisks,but if the Viper is a Hive unit then
i guess tanks would still be viable in the early to mid game. |
|
|
| ThePlayer33 Australia. June 14 2012 20:15. Posts 2377 | Profile # |
| PLEASE stop making tanks. i will just make 50 baneling and you have no air, make infestor cos they are op and beats every other terran unit |
| | | Idra | YuGiOh | Leenock | Coca | |
|
|
| Chaosvuistje Netherlands. June 14 2012 20:15. Posts 2546 | Profile # |
Tanks are the thing that controls space and allows the terran to effectively deal with large baneling floods without needing 500 apm just to split everything up correctly.
No, they might not be useful in a certain playstyle versus a specific style of zerg. But overall they deal with techswitches on the ground really well. Not to mention constricting the zergs movement with banelings and infestors. Saying that they are useless is like saying that the infestor is useless because every terran presplits their army anyway before engaging, which is just bull because the Terran can do a whole lot more if he doesnt have to play against infestors. Same with tanks really.
Saying that tanks will be useless in HotS is bull as well. If they really are going to be bad, they will buff the damage output or tinker with the tanks stats anyway. |
| | Follow me on @raamedia, updates on good TL threads and SC2 news. And also webdevelopment ^^ |
|
|
| dynwar7 June 14 2012 20:56. Posts 1945 | Profile # |
Thank you for the inputs guys.
As for the vote, what is confusing?
"Do you think tanks are useless in TvZ
Awnser:
Yes they are viable."
The question is if they are useless, and if you look at the second answer poll it says no, they are useless.
Its just the order....if I put "They are useless" first and "They are viable" second it would make sense right....
Ok, back to this discussion, well, I guess if allowing tanks to only shoot 2 or 3 shots and get killed is called good, then....I guess that is good enough reason to look at it that way. I am also using those 2 guides because in those guides they both do not use tanks.
So you guys are saying to use tanks in TvZ except when you are a high level player and can micro macro almost perfectly? |
| | Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves.... |
|
|
| 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All |
|
Store
