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| IronManSC United States. June 16 2012 06:12. Posts 1660 | Profile # |
This doesn't really change a whole lot in the TvT matchup since terrans use vikings or medivacs to enable long range tank firing, so that kinda negates the whole point of smoke screens unless you have no air units. Against Zerg it's common to have terrans behind some kinda of fortified wall (bunkers, supply depots, or mabye a couple PFs), and smoke screens will only add to that. Against protoss all they would need to do is send their observer ahead of the army through the smoke screen and that would tell the protoss player if it's safe or not.
The only scenario where I can see this being useful is ZvT where terran is out in the openLast edit: 2012-06-16 06:22:19 |
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| Cuce Turkey. June 16 2012 06:12. Posts 833 | Profile # |
This do really look good but..
its kinda similar how we dont really use dt's or ghost cloak in combat. well we do use ghost cloak, but only beacuse we dont have anything left to emp and cloaking might save them if toss didnt have an obs with his army.
I mean, medivacs, scans, obs, collosus, overseers, mutalisk, corrupters, viking these are already a steady part of a composition.
so if this is supposed to be a mid game feature, will it really be worth the effort/resource spent on it. more importantly a player will have to create situaitons where los blockers might be useful, instead of creating situations where multiaple drops will be useful, or helion run by, or flanks. |
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| absalom86 Iceland. June 16 2012 06:15. Posts 1714 | Profile # |
| I like the idea but i don't think terran should have it. Rather zerg or protoss, or coming from the raven or ghost, not tanks... Tanks are too strong if anything at holding positions already. |
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| larse June 16 2012 06:21. Posts 999 | Profile # |
I don't know.
How about giving this ability to warhound. Then warhound can still fulfill the original role of anti-tank in TvT. But people will still use it against zerg because of the ability can help your siege tank as well in TvZ.
And David Kim in one recent interview did mention that they are still experimenting with the warhound's ability. Blizzard should definitely consider this ability to warhound. |
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| mell0w United States. June 16 2012 06:36. Posts 102 | Profile # |
Should be a reaper ability and would really help with all MU.
Since blizzard won't buff Terran maneuverability, some subversive mechanics would be fantastic!
Widow mines are simply the start of deterrents, we need more things like this. |
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| figq June 16 2012 06:49. Posts 9653 | Profile Blog # |
| Great, I love it (and I'm not even terran). It just seems cool as gameplay applications, looks; and fits the lore too. Of course, the smokes from tanks have to have a player color attached, and not really block vision for that player, only for enemies. |
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| ArcticRaven France. June 16 2012 07:02. Posts 1168 | Profile # |
| This is very good - is there any way to make this go to Blizzard ? |
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| ClysmiC United States. June 16 2012 07:19. Posts 1951 | Profile Blog # |
On June 16 2012 06:36 mell0w wrote:
Should be a reaper ability and would really help with all MU.
Since blizzard won't buff Terran maneuverability, some subversive mechanics would be fantastic!
Widow mines are simply the start of deterrents, we need more things like this.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Obviously, we all want more mech usage, but I think the best way to do this is not by buffing mech, but by adding bio units that can support mech well. I think the marauder could be scratched all-together, and the reaper could be given something like this ability, or a repair. That would leave marines as great support for an army with a mech backbone, while making pure bio (the most boring comp ever) a little less viable. |
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| TiTanIum_ Brazil. June 16 2012 07:31. Posts 1138 | Profile # |
| The way that the skill is used is weird. Casting a spell in a line, instead of a circle is too hard for lower level players, so my guess is that Blizzard wouldn't use it this way due to their policy "Easy to learn, hard to master". Maybe make it a ball, which using your arguments, is closer to reality, and also make charges in stead of cd. |
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| mell0w United States. June 16 2012 08:03. Posts 102 | Profile # |
On June 16 2012 07:31 TiTanIum_ wrote:
The way that the skill is used is weird. Casting a spell in a line, instead of a circle is too hard for lower level players, so my guess is that Blizzard wouldn't use it this way due to their policy "Easy to learn, hard to master". Maybe make it a ball, which using your arguments, is closer to reality, and also make charges in stead of cd.
And that's why catering to casuals hinders actual game play. People can preach dynamic demographics and good business sense all they want, I simply hate limiting abilities because some people find them difficult. World aint fair, and if it is, we call that socialism. |
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| CanadianSCgamer Canada. June 16 2012 15:45. Posts 64 | Profile # |
On June 16 2012 07:19 ClysmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 06:36 mell0w wrote:
Should be a reaper ability and would really help with all MU.
Since blizzard won't buff Terran maneuverability, some subversive mechanics would be fantastic!
Widow mines are simply the start of deterrents, we need more things like this.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Obviously, we all want more mech usage, but I think the best way to do this is not by buffing mech, but by adding bio units that can support mech well. I think the marauder could be scratched all-together, and the reaper could be given something like this ability, or a repair. That would leave marines as great support for an army with a mech backbone, while making pure bio (the most boring comp ever) a little less viable.
This ability on the reaper might be hard to balance early game as reapers can already manipulate LOS by hopping up and down cliffs. Essentially the Smoke Screen is a way to generate a "cliff" or high ground on flat terrain. If reapers also have this ability, then they would be able to put a cliff on a cliff. XD |
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| NDDseer Australia. June 16 2012 19:49. Posts 198 | Profile Blog # |
I really really like this.
1. It's simple
2. It's what Day9 would call a frisbee rather than a baseball (aka its use increases proportionally with the skill of the player using it)
3. I'd enjoy playing with it
Hopefully blizzard sees this and has a serious think about it.
Also, hopefully this inspires more people to put forward their own design ideas, instead of constantly bitching about how Blizzard is doing everything wrong (or "it isn't as good as BW") without any suggestions of their own. |
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| Sated England. June 16 2012 20:00. Posts 3443 | Profile Blog # |
On June 16 2012 06:12 IronManSC wrote:
This doesn't really change a whole lot in the TvT matchup since terrans use vikings or medivacs to enable long range tank firing, so that kinda negates the whole point of smoke screens unless you have no air units. Against Zerg it's common to have terrans behind some kinda of fortified wall (bunkers, supply depots, or mabye a couple PFs), and smoke screens will only add to that. Against protoss all they would need to do is send their observer ahead of the army through the smoke screen and that would tell the protoss player if it's safe or not.
The only scenario where I can see this being useful is ZvT where terran is out in the open
Air superiority is really important in TvT. If you can gain air superiority over your opponent then they won't be able to use Medivacs/Vikings/Ravens/Banshees to see over the smoke screen because your own Vikings will shoot them down, giving you an even greater advantage. |
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| CanadianSCgamer Canada. June 17 2012 05:01. Posts 64 | Profile # |
On June 16 2012 19:49 NDDseer wrote:
I really really like this.
1. It's simple
2. It's what Day9 would call a frisbee rather than a baseball (aka its use increases proportionally with the skill of the player using it)
3. I'd enjoy playing with it
Hopefully blizzard sees this and has a serious think about it.
Also, hopefully this inspires more people to put forward their own design ideas, instead of constantly bitching about how Blizzard is doing everything wrong (or "it isn't as good as BW") without any suggestions of their own.
Thanks! Yea this ability is like a frisbee. Good players can place the Screens as fast as forcefields to deter an enemy army from advancing. Unlike forcefields, they don't block pathing, but do create fog of war that cannot be broken unless going on the other side. For example, Terrans can make a smoke wall to protect tanks from say a zergling army. And depending on how well the players place these walls, they may or may not lose their army. In a sense, the power of this ability is scalable much like forcefields, but it doesn't hinder micro like forcefields. |
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| Areon United States. June 17 2012 05:35. Posts 272 | Profile # |
| People are crying enough about tanks already, and this is only going to add fuel to the fire. Do you want Protoss to have absolutely no chance of holding off a 1-1-1 against a competent Terran? It's an interesting idea and the game could use more strategic options like this, but I don't see how this specific ability would ever be balanced. |
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| Prophecy3 Canada. June 17 2012 05:44. Posts 221 | Profile # |
Absolutely great idea. This would make tanks even more awesome.. I think this is the best Idea for any Terran unit i've heard of since the BCs are getting warp drives..
I really hope you posted that idea and thread to bnet, DB needs to read that. |
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| jeeneeus June 17 2012 06:09. Posts 1100 | Profile Blog # |
I think it would have to an upgrade on either the ebay, tech lab, or armory (and should cost some significant amount of gas, maybe 100?). I think mid and late game, the ability is fine, but early game it can be pretty annoying.
Basically it makes the 1-1-1 that much stronger if it were already built in. Observers can be shut down with a raven. This means going chargelots is much less effective in defending (Colossi and phoenixes still work). Basically it limits the options for defense and that's not cool. By forcing an upgrade, it would cost additional time and money, so the protoss can make additional units (and the terran has less units), so it could free up the usage of chargelots again.
In tvt, it's already really hard to hold against a siege tank push if you go 1rax fe. With a smoke screen, it would severely limit your opportunities to try and stim to clean it up, since you wouldn't be able to see when a good moment to go unless you scan constantly or constantly sacrifice units. Basically, that means you have to wait for medivacs to pop. Most people do this anyway, but the difference is the threat. The siege tank pusher has to be really careful with his tank positioning and leap frogging because if he messes up, the defending player can go and kill it before medivacs. With smoke, the tank player has no need to worry. Thus, with the additional time and cost, not only will there be more units out, it would give more time for medivacs to pop. |
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| Jedclark United Kingdom. June 17 2012 06:14. Posts 847 | Profile Blog # |
| This idea sounds awesome. It would make tank play quite interesting to watch. Imagine seeing a Terran player launch a smoke screen just outside their base, they'd be freaking out wondering if there is an army there, or whether he is faking them out. This would be cool in TvZ, due to the drones or units from larva mechanic. |
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| decaf Austria. June 17 2012 06:34. Posts 1701 | Profile # |
The concept sounds great. Post it on the blizzard forums asap!
It's useless to argue about whether this is OP or not, especially if it's implemented in HotS. No on can ever claim to know how HotS will turn out. Maybe we won't ever see marine tank vs Zerg again?
The idea is good and that's what counts. First get the design straight, then do the balancing. |
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 EneMecH United Kingdom. June 17 2012 06:34. Posts 218 | Profile # |
On June 15 2012 20:16 bhfberserk wrote:
I think if this ability is coming out from the Warhound, instead of the "auto-target to mech" thing. From the missile launcher on top of the warhound, you can launch smoke screen would be cool.
But then again, this overlaps with the Viper's blinding cloud (if it is still in the game).
The concept is like cloak, Dark swarm.
Vision thing can be counter by a scan or flying units. So this is definitely a viable and balance ablity.
In the pictures you have showed, it is confusing because you use the smoke wall mechanic. I was confused at first seeing each players POV. But it could just be changed into a cloud thing.
+1
If it was a warhound ability, it'd be more cool and unique as well as making the warhound less of an A move unit.
You could cast it from one side when you flank a siege line. This would make the flank effective enough vs large clumps of tanks, but also be possible to negate. |
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