[H] 3rax stim on TvT (silver league)

Hello,

I have recently started playing sc2, and this is my first ever more competitive contact with the rts genre. I am currently in the silver league, and following a suggestion, I've been practicing on the 3rax stim build order until I get good macro and multitasking skills (mine aren't very good this far).

Since I'm a total noob I'm afraid I might end up saying stupid things on this post but let's see if I can explain my situation:

I realize that this BO gives me a good time to attack around the 8 - 8:30 min mark. My army is almost always bigger than the opponent's and I can just attack, build an extra ref, eng bay, and expand while teching to medivacs (so this build doesn't feel like an all in). Vs protoss and zerg the first push is almost always a GG unless I screw up badly or don't execute the BO properly due to a big harass of some kind.

Vs terran it goes a bit different. I need to push before siege tech, which usually makes it best to attack at 7-7:30 minutes. I don't usually have precise timings on how long it takes to cross the map, but I try and stick around that as much as possible. So what happens is that I try to go up their main base ramp, and there is one tank and a bunker and a few marines/marauders. My push fails, and I get back to my two bases and start macroing and expanding but the game eventually get's too big for what I'm used and I end up not being able to multitask enough to hold against drops and attacks.

Of course, I'm training to multitask better and see drops before they happen and get ready, but what bothers me is, watching replays, at that 7:30min mark, my army is always bigger than the other player's, and it seems that if I could just control it better I could win right then. What am I doing wrong? Trying to go up the ramp too soon? Or would this fail everytime vs terran and I should stop trying?

http://drop.sc/198339

This is an example. I feel like my push could have worked, but maybe I'm wrong and I should have just waited?

Sorry for any noobish or english faults, lol.

beep United States. June 16 2012 02:58. Posts 6

Profile #

You had no vision, which allowed his tanks to pick off units before you could even see him. You also targeted down his depot instead of any units, which allowed him more free shots. Had he gotten Siege up in time, it would have been even more one sided.

If you had moved in earlier and focused down units instead of the Depot, it might've gone differently.

Last edit: 2012-06-16 02:59:35

Harpwn Australia. June 16 2012 03:08. Posts 251

Profile Blog #

I think your main problem is that you should practice a different build order. Your build order wont net you wins forever and learning to multitask would be more efficient by doing standard FE builds. As you said, you win most games with the first push.

meepkeN United States. June 16 2012 03:10. Posts 52

Profile #

To add on to beep's comment, running up the ramp blindly is never a good idea. If anything, either get a scan to see what he has or send only 1 marine up. It's almost never a good idea to run up a small ramp like that, due to their high ground vision and concave on your units.

You also ran a couple of marauders and marines into siege tank fire which cost you even more. (around 11:30)

Smaller things to note:
-Hotkey your army. You did for your production buildings which is great, but hotkey your army so you can control it better!
-Keep working at this BO. I hate to be one of those people, but your macro seems to be lacking. Keep going through the macro cycle (build scv's, troops, add to hotkey, repeat). You miss a couple of SCVs during engagements which might help you later on.
-The third base you built seemed really unnecessary, considering how little SCV you had after drops and such. I would suggest to keep building workers and troops rather than expand a third time. If you didn't notice, he never expanded. This means you would be ahead in terms of the number of bases.

wwJd)El_Mojjo Sweden. June 16 2012 03:11. Posts 159

Profile Blog #

Well, the strat is not really a good choice vs tank openings but it is possible to make it work.

You used stim packs a bit too late, perhaps it's better if you stim before the battle if you don't have the multitasking to do it in the right moment while microing.You should also try to clump up your army more, especially when you have some reinforcements incoming, back away a bit and keep your units together before attacking again. Of course it's good if you can split them a little bit vs splash damage, but it's important all of your units are actually fighting at the same time.

Also, targeting helps a lot, you need to be decisive about what you want to do in a battle, it's a good idea to scan ahead and decide what units you are going to target before the battle starts. As beep said, it might have gone differently if you had focused down his units.

Gc.El_Mojjo

galtdunn United States. June 16 2012 03:29. Posts 799

Profile #

On June 16 2012 03:08 Reignyo wrote:
I think your main problem is that you should practice a different build order. Your build order wont net you wins forever and learning to multitask would be more efficient by doing standard FE builds. As you said, you win most games with the first push.

Way to totally ignore the question and not watch the replay. What a contribution.

Anyways, I did watch the replay (I'm a low masters NA Zerg). I would say that against Terrans it might be a better option to not push up the ramp. As others have said, scan or send a marine for vision. If it looks like what it was (closed wall, tanks and bio defending), then I would say definitely do NOT push into it. Instead, do what you did afterwards (probably by accident) and set up a light contain. This makes your expansion safe.

Lastly, once you had an expand up and you knew he didn't, don't ever, EVER take another base until he has taken his second base. Being up by a base safely is good play. Taking a third base against his 1 base is just greedy, and you paid the price for it.

As a suggestion for future games in this scenario, instead of taking a third, why not make an engineering bay, start an upgrade, and place a defensive turret to defend against drops? Makes you extra safe, and the upgrade will give you another leg up without being so greedy as to set you up for losing to a desperate all-in.

As Artosis and Tasteless say, when you're ahead, look for the ways your opponent can beat you (in this case a doom drop in your main) and defend against that. (they also say get more ahead, but that's not what i'm talking about here).

Goodluck in the future and keep at it!

Last edit: 2012-06-16 03:30:17

Currently editing items in the DotA 2 wiki. PM for questions/suggestions.

blu255 June 16 2012 03:44. Posts 2

Profile #

If you had moved in earlier and focused down units instead of the Depot, it might've gone differently.

I totally get what you're saying. I just focused on the depots cause I thought then I could move up instead of just staying on the ramp. But yeah, it probably wasn't a great idea.

As a suggestion for future games in this scenario, instead of taking a third, why not make an engineering bay, start an upgrade, and place a defensive turret to defend against drops? Makes you extra safe, and the upgrade will give you another leg up without being so greedy as to set you up for losing to a desperate all-in.

This whole post was really helpful. I agree to this and the other posts that mentioned the 3rd CC wasn't a good idea at that time. My biggest doubt is on how to follow up. I usually try putting down an eng bay and factory asap to get a starport and medivacs soon, but I never know if I should even get tanks or not. Researching siege mode and all is a lot of money to spend that I could use to get quicker upgrades and I end up not being sure which is the best idea.

Also, all posts pretty much have been a lot of help and it's really nice to have people help you, so thanks.

galtdunn United States. June 16 2012 03:51. Posts 799

Profile #

Show nested quote +

Happy to help! PM me if you have any other questions, I actually enjoy helping lower league players. I might not be SUPER helpful as I play zerg, but I had to have learned something getting to masters

Your follow-up should depend completely on what you accomplished with your push.

Did you do damage to his army? Then expand.
Did you do no damage to his army (as in your replay)? Expand safely (bunkers, possible turrets, etc).

As far as what tech to get, I believe you're making the correct choice in going straight to medivacs. Whether this comes before or after your expansion (in your replay it was before) is up to you.

Also, never be afraid to scan if you have no idea what he's doing. In lower leagues money tends to be high anyways, don't worry as much about mules as you do about scouting.

Last edit: 2012-06-16 03:52:55

Currently editing items in the DotA 2 wiki. PM for questions/suggestions.

Please log in or register to reply.