 okrane France. June 16 2012 18:31. Posts 265 | Profile # |
Honest question to forumers.
We have a new installment of the game, a chance to set things right, to repair past mistakes and design flaws, to make the game sharper and better than it was before.
And still we have this god awful boring and bland unit in the core of the zerg army.
The expansion could be a way of removing it and adding another solution for Zerg early tier which would make things more interesting and fun to watch.
All opinions are welcome.
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| | Really disappointed with Starcraft II Zerg! :( |
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| Fleshcut Germany. June 16 2012 18:33. Posts 499 | Profile # |
| It's too important to Zs to remove it. Why not remove the tanks from terran? They are boring. Leading to turtle style play and impossible to crack defenses. Roaches are at least mobile and get you into a real game even if I have to admit that they are boring compared to lings. But you can't remove any of them. :/ Sadly. Last edit: 2012-06-16 18:34:05 |
| | Zerg Power! Dimaga, Nerchio, Losira, Scarlett, Stephano, Ret, NesTea, DRG gogo! |
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| Amlitzer United States. June 16 2012 18:35. Posts 468 | Profile # |
| The thing I hate about the roach is that it has these really interesting mechanics (burrow move and regen) that go unused 99% of the time. Instead they are just used as a pure dps unit, which isn't what I imagine blizzard intending at all. I think they really need to revert their range back to 3 for starters. |
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| Garmer June 16 2012 18:36. Posts 1126 | Profile # |
tank boring, what? blasphemy.... roach are ten time more boring 1a units
Imho roach should cost 1 supply 100hp/3 range and same dps as now, but with a passive ability in his attack(like the devourer)Last edit: 2012-06-16 18:36:45 |
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| freetgy June 16 2012 18:38. Posts 1632 | Profile # |
I think roaches are fine, but the are to fast & tanky for the ressourc cost.
usually a unit is either fast or tanky.
A speed roach has movement speed of 4 on creep.....almost as fast as speedlings.
As far as i am aware 2 roaches beat any equivalent of 150/50 ressource army of the opponents, which makes them a very boring a-move unit in most of the cases.Last edit: 2012-06-16 18:40:14 |
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| Fueled United States. June 16 2012 18:39. Posts 1609 | Profile # |
Ya its too important to Zergs to remove.
I'm kind of on the fence about them though. As watching goes, I hate seeing them in ZvP and ZvT, but I love watching roach battles in ZvZ. |
| | The Wood League - Where a double gas opening can still mean a Marine/SCV all-in |
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| Probe1 United States. June 16 2012 18:39. Posts 16445 | Profile Blog # |
Haha do you have any idea how fucked everything would be if Roach was one supply? That's catching a candle only to let the fireplace burn down the house. Just imagine every time your opponent beat you with a roach timing then add 25-30% more roaches.
I want the Hydra back to its original use as much as anyone. However this is SC2 and I've accepted it will never be the same as BW. Roaches are part of what we use and they are remarkably fine the way they are. |
| | 우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by | |
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| Yorbon Netherlands. June 16 2012 18:40. Posts 1403 | Profile # |
Marines OP, remove them. And there are enough other games with infantery shooting with guns: not so original.
Also, the zealot is pretty bland.
Roach is too standard in zerg army to get rid from. Small steps are needed to do so with good replacement. Imo not possible until lotv.Last edit: 2012-06-16 18:44:57 |
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| dAPhREAk Nauru. June 16 2012 18:42. Posts 8761 | Profile Blog # |
| and replace it with what? |
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| Zrana United Kingdom. June 16 2012 18:42. Posts 682 | Profile Blog # |
I feel like the swarm host fills the role of a midgame defensive+cost-efficient+high-retention unit, whilst the speed upgrade for hydras could allow them to fill the role of the big ranged dps ball.
This doesn't necessarily mean that the roach should be removed, rather that now zergs have other options for roles the roach previously filled we will (probably) start to see roaches used and made more situationally which will make them seem like a less bland unit.
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| Aunvilgod June 16 2012 18:44. Posts 2062 | Profile # |
| And have 2 more years of balancing? Hmm no rather not. |
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| Probe1 United States. June 16 2012 18:45. Posts 16445 | Profile Blog # |
You think we won't have a significant period of balancing anyway?  |
| | 우정호 KT_VIOLET 1988 - 2012 While we are postponing, life speeds by | |
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| DystopiaX United States. June 16 2012 18:46. Posts 10761 | Profile # |
Nope. Removing it means a lot more changes that would ultimately make it more difficult for the Zerg to get adjusted to the new expansion than the other 2 races. It would be like removing Stalkers/Marauders because they're "boring" as well. They may be vanilla ability wise but they allow the race to do a lot of different strategies with them. They're too important to remove.
On June 16 2012 18:42 Zrana wrote:
I feel like the swarm host fills the role of a midgame defensive+cost-efficient+high-retention unit, whilst the speed upgrade for hydras could allow them to fill the role of the big ranged dps ball.
This doesn't necessarily mean that the roach should be removed, rather that now zergs have other options for roles the roach previously filled we will (probably) start to see roaches used and made more situationally which will make them seem like a less bland unit.
You can get Roaches much quicker than Swarm Hosts though (hatch instead of lair tech). They're much more expensive than roaches and according to those that played they're really underwhelming. Not cost efficient at all. Also Roaches aren't purely a defensive unit and doesn't play the (intended) siege role that the Swarm Host does. I don't see the similarity in application at all.Last edit: 2012-06-16 18:47:24 |
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| Chargelot June 16 2012 18:46. Posts 2274 | Profile Blog # |
On June 16 2012 18:42 dAPhREAk wrote:
and replace it with what?
The beetle. It's like a roach, but with 25% more fun built into it. It could do things like burrow underground and move, and then pop up onto unsuspecting enemies. Roaches can't do that. Roaches are boring 1a units. |
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| Dalavita Sweden. June 16 2012 18:46. Posts 1113 | Profile # |
On June 16 2012 18:33 Fleshcut wrote:
It's too important to Zs to remove it. Why not remove the tanks from terran? They are boring. Leading to turtle style play and impossible to crack defenses. Roaches are at least mobile and get you into a real game even if I have to admit that they are boring compared to lings. But you can't remove any of them. :/ Sadly.
What are you smoking. Tanks are objectively good for the game, and a huge part of what BW and SC has always been about. Shame they're so shit in SC2 compared to BW or we'd see some real positional games instead of blobfests. |
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| Diizzy United States. June 16 2012 18:47. Posts 744 | Profile # |
| remove the roach. make lings a little tougher. give us the lurker. |
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| YosHGo Czech Republic. June 16 2012 18:47. Posts 297 | Profile # |
| Yes it would be fun to see stephano figuring out new style ;D |
| | "AFTER LOST GAME - I usually run around in circles yelling "WHY OH GOD WHY" in my room, pointing towards the sky. After 5 to 10min ,i get tired and go back to playing" |
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 BisuDagger United States. June 16 2012 18:48. Posts 5977 | Profile Blog # |
| I think roaches provide a lot or early game management that otherwise wouldn't exist. They are needed before lair tech and are versatile in their uses. I can't see another type of new unit replacing it. That early in tech you want something that can work as a meat shield and deal decent dps but not be super special without upgrades. I think the roach pretty much covers that. |
| | ~BD, not just for BisuDagger but for BroodWar Doctor ~I may not always watch SC2 but when I do I post lots of Bisu | |
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| Ktk Korea (South). June 16 2012 18:49. Posts 708 | Profile Blog # |
Well it's not like any other matchup has the standard way to play where you max out on any other unit at 12m and win the game with that. Not even marines, though you could make a case for blink stalkers... hmm.
Jokes aside it is a pretty important unit, as mech becomes a more viable option (or so Blizzard says / hopes............) in HotS, I think having the Roach will be a good transition unit for WoL players to mess around with the new units - we don't want to absolutely shatter Zerg players' knowledge of the game (in that: when you see mech, build roaches). Roach drops will still be good against mech because Terran didn't get new anti air other than widow mines.
Blizzard has said they're not opposed to 1a "macro-friendly" (lol) units; that was their reasoning for warhound/battle hellion - no reason to eliminate units. You'd only get people mad by removing it. We don't know if It would still be played more often than bc's, hydras now, reapers, ravens, neosteel frames... |
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| Tachion June 16 2012 18:51. Posts 7071 | Profile Blog # |
On June 16 2012 18:42 dAPhREAk wrote:
and replace it with what?
tier 1 hydras that aren't terrible. Of course that would fuck up hots changes but this is mindless theorycraft anyway. Last edit: 2012-06-16 18:52:07 |
| | i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have. |
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