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| MainXpring June 21 2012 03:26. Posts 23 | Profile # |
This build relies on crippling the zerg as much as possible in the mid game with a Combat Shields and Stimpack timing with Marines, Hellions and Marauders as your main composition. Pulling SCVs (4-6) to tank / repair the Hellions is also an option and only makes your push that much stronger.
If Zerg takes a third in reaction, you should be in good shape even if he attempts to go Roach/Baneling all in after that. However, if he stays agressive on two base, bunker up and prepare to pull SCVs.
Link Game 1, Set 1: http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls3/vod/67558
Edit: This is by no means an All-in. If you consider this an all-in review your definition of an all-in.
For those who can't access the VODs, here's the build order:
15 CC 15 Rax
Next 75 minerals get gas
@100 gas build factory
@50 gas Reactor on Barracks
Next 300 build double barracks
@25 gas tech lab on the factory and look for the swap
100 gas Stimpack
@75 gas Reactor and Techlab on the two Barracks
@100 gas get Combatshields
Concussive Shields is optional
Expand or add two more Barracks is optional
Adding two Engineering Bays is recommended
Normal game from there...
Good luck fellow TerranLast edit: 2012-06-21 04:58:16 |
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| teddyoojo Germany. June 21 2012 03:36. Posts 2282 | Profile Blog # |
| allinning is not a solution to a matchup |
| | MKP, INnoVation, aLive, !! grubby moon khaldor xlord |
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| MainXpring June 21 2012 03:39. Posts 23 | Profile # |
| It's not an all in. You just pull a few SCVs 4-6. |
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| Clipsey June 21 2012 03:42. Posts 12 | Profile # |
| I wouldn't call this an all-in, but you have to do damage. It's similar to an immortal sentry attack, it can be an all-in if you think you can win, but if they hold, you will be behind. |
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| Harstem Netherlands. June 21 2012 03:45. Posts 210 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 03:42 Clipsey wrote:
I wouldn't call this an all-in, but you have to do damage. It's similar to an immortal sentry attack, it can be an all-in if you think you can win, but if they hold, you will be behind.
Immortal sentry attack is all in. |
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| Clipsey June 21 2012 03:47. Posts 12 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 03:45 Harstem wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 03:42 Clipsey wrote:
I wouldn't call this an all-in, but you have to do damage. It's similar to an immortal sentry attack, it can be an all-in if you think you can win, but if they hold, you will be behind.
Immortal sentry attack is all in.
It doesn't have to be. If you kill off their third, or kill a good amount of drones, you don't have to continue the attack. You CAN continue to warp in more units and continue the attack. But, you do have to do damage. It's a timing, timings aren't all-ins, they just need to do damage.
In my experience, being only mid-masters random, I find that if they just sack their third, and build spines at the expansion, that's enough to go back. Maybe you don't win, or even get too far ahead, but two base toss against two base zerg, I seem to be at the very least "okay".Last edit: 2012-06-21 03:57:19 |
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| KonohaFlash Canada. June 21 2012 03:49. Posts 1590 | Profile # |
| No offense, but this is a platinum level replay. Not to say that this build obviously won't work at the higher levels, but saying you get 90% winrate in platinum by all-inning doesn't really do much for the issue terran has in high-level TvZ. |
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| marttorn Norway. June 21 2012 03:54. Posts 5014 | Profile Blog # |
Bah, I read "supernovamaniac's build" in the title, leading me to assume that SNM had broken into the professional SC2 scene and had taken it by storm  |
| | So far as we can determine, peanut butter has no effect on the rotation of the earth. | |
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| Absentia United Kingdom. June 21 2012 04:00. Posts 768 | Profile # |
Polt did a similar build against Stephano at the latest MLG. Polt's build, however, gets double gas, hits a bit later but has +1 attack to go with it.
I think this version seems a bit safer to execute, (barracks earlier and easier to build defensive bunkers) but I'm not sure which would be stronger of the two. I would think Polt's on the face of it though.Last edit: 2012-06-21 04:01:05 |
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| BoggieMan June 21 2012 04:08. Posts 462 | Profile Blog # |
On June 21 2012 03:36 teddyoojo wrote:
allinning is not a solution to a matchup
look at pvz :/ however i agree with you. |
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| frezMki Germany. June 21 2012 04:08. Posts 59 | Profile # |
| Its a huge commitment but not a complete All-in though |
| | They say if it's not broken don't fix it - Well, if it could be better it is as good as broken |
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| iAmJeffReY United States. June 21 2012 04:10. Posts 3385 | Profile # |
Who calls a fucking 15 CC into 3 rax 1 fac an all in? It's not an all in, it's a strong timing push off a CC first. Just because you CAN pull 4-6 scvs doesn't mean it's an all in.
But, many zergs call anything other than 3 OC and standard slow letmelosea17minutegame macro game as an all in and cheese.
Only issue is the no units like... at all early. Any kind of violet like 3-7 roach pressure after FE, or random mass sling after FE, ling bane econ bust, etc will hit too early to have a good enough unit count to deal with it. |
| | iAmJeffReY.267 /// http://www.twitch.tv/iamjeffrey_ |
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| MainXpring June 21 2012 04:18. Posts 23 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 03:49 KonohaFlash wrote:
No offense, but this is a platinum level replay. Not to say that this build obviously won't work at the higher levels, but saying you get 90% winrate in platinum by all-inning doesn't really do much for the issue terran has in high-level TvZ.
You have a Supernova VOD there  If you understand that as an all in. I don't want to know in which league you are in then. Also, and not that it matters or changes the perception of my level of play by others, I'm a high diamond on my main account
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| Xyik Canada. June 21 2012 04:19. Posts 606 | Profile Blog # |
| Guess you havn't heard, zerg can just make 6 queens and defend anything. |
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| Dvriel June 21 2012 04:23. Posts 431 | Profile # |
| Saw the replay and its ok,but most Z got midle of map with creep on 12 mins,3rd satturated,infestors,banelings and Hive almost done by this time.Your play was pretty all innish and I dont like All ins or cheese.Wanna play macro games and be able to do something vs Z in late game.If he goes mutas you may die. |
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| KonohaFlash Canada. June 21 2012 04:30. Posts 1590 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 04:18 MainXpring wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 03:49 KonohaFlash wrote:
No offense, but this is a platinum level replay. Not to say that this build obviously won't work at the higher levels, but saying you get 90% winrate in platinum by all-inning doesn't really do much for the issue terran has in high-level TvZ.
You have a Supernova VOD there If you understand that as an all in. I don't want to know in which league you are in then. Also, and not that it matters or changes the perception of my level of play by others, I'm a high diamond on my main account
You mean the VoD where he loses right? I don't even know what the rest of your post is saying, I'll go ahead and assume what you're trying to say is since it's an all-in it doesn't matter what your skill level is, which doesn't make sense at all.
Just because you are performing an all-in, it doesn't mean the skill required to perform it, in this case at the level of DRG or Symbol, would be very high.
This is not even to mention if your opponent scouts this build, which he didn't, he can just do a roach, bling all-in to completely crush it.
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| Arcanefrost Belgium. June 21 2012 04:31. Posts 1119 | Profile Blog # |
On June 21 2012 03:47 Clipsey wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 21 2012 03:45 Harstem wrote:
On June 21 2012 03:42 Clipsey wrote:
I wouldn't call this an all-in, but you have to do damage. It's similar to an immortal sentry attack, it can be an all-in if you think you can win, but if they hold, you will be behind.
Immortal sentry attack is all in.
It doesn't have to be. If you kill off their third, or kill a good amount of drones, you don't have to continue the attack. You CAN continue to warp in more units and continue the attack. But, you do have to do damage. It's a timing, timings aren't all-ins, they just need to do damage. In my experience, being only mid-masters random, I find that if they just sack their third, and build spines at the expansion, that's enough to go back. Maybe you don't win, or even get too far ahead, but two base toss against two base zerg, I seem to be at the very least "okay".
I don't think this happens very often at all. With all-ins you either get figured out and lose, or surprise the zerg and kill him. If you somehow end up in the middleground zerg always has the advantage because of a 15-20 worker lead, even if he loses third. |
| | Valor is a poor substitute for numbers. |
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| goFLiP Argentina. June 21 2012 04:31. Posts 39 | Profile # |
| The zerg in that game was kinda dumb. He was playing absolutely blind and he only had 4 queens and 2 lings when you push out. I know it's common to see zergs playing like that these days, but they don't play blind anymore. This guy was playing blind, he had no idea what you had, no overlords scouting base or trying to deduce scv count. Any sort of timing would have destroyed that guy because the only thing he had was 4 queens, a few spines and 2 lings. Last edit: 2012-06-21 04:32:55 |
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| KonohaFlash Canada. June 21 2012 04:33. Posts 1590 | Profile # |
On June 21 2012 04:31 goFLiP wrote:
The zerg in that game was kinda dumb. He was playing absolutely blind and he only had 4 queens and 2 lings when you push out. I know it's common to see zergs playing like that these days, but they don't play blind anymore. This guy was playing blind, he had no idea what you had, no overlords scouting base or trying to deduce scv count. Any sort of timing would have destroyed that guy because the only thing he had was 4 queens, a few spines and 2 lings.
The zerg has 16 idle drones for over a minute during that game as well. lol. |
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| Clarity_nl Netherlands. June 21 2012 04:39. Posts 3283 | Profile # |
Usually when people say "it isn't all in, it just has to do damage" they don't seem to understand what an all-in is....
If it has to do damage, it is an all-in. Seeing as if your attack gets defended you lose, you are risking everything on this attack.
The only exception perhaps is 6-8 pool zvp, and I'd still call that all-in.
Sure, some freaky situation where you do just enough damage to not lose instantly might happen, but that doesn't mean it's not all in.
Just because you don't pull all your scv's doesn't mean it's a standard attack.Last edit: 2012-06-21 04:40:37 |
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