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| MonDeW Denmark. June 23 2012 00:45. Posts 368 | Profile # |
I haven't really seen discussion about maps a lot on this subforum, so, i thought i would make a thread where we could discuss the one new map, Condemned Ridge.
Is it unbalanced in any way?
What do you like about the map? What do you NOT like about it?
What kind of map is it?
These are some suggestions on what you could discuss in here. So i'll start.
I really like how easy it is to take a fourth as Terran. Just take the middle base, and make a PF. It's kinda unbreakable.
This map is also good for dropping, which is one of my main stables of my play against z, since theres so much space inbetween the bases, and it's REALLY large imo. This also make it hard for zerg to go broodlords, since theres so much space for dropping and it's really open, which favors ultralisks over broodlords.
Something i don't like, is how hard it is to make wall offs and chokes. Against ultras or zealot archon, it's really hard to make supply depot walls, since there's a lot of space, and a different way in to the area at my third. Last edit: 2012-06-27 09:25:26 |
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| Walitgon Australia. June 23 2012 00:50. Posts 542 | Profile # |
Map seems awful for terran and toss against zerg.
It's just so enormous.
Whenever I get it against toss or terran, I just lol my way to the win.  |
| | BRB laddering ^_^ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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| Kovaz June 23 2012 00:54. Posts 203 | Profile # |
| I haven't played it much; I think a lot of people have it vetoed. PvZ I'm not a huge fan. The third is super open which makes it very hard to take a third against 12:00 max roach, and the natural ramp is too large to wall off so you have to wall to the nexus which means you can easily FF yourself into your third and then lose your natural. That said, the open third actually makes me like it in PvP, since it allows a chargelot-archon player to grab a faster third, while a colossus player has to wait longer, which makes both viable choices. |
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| Daimai Sweden. June 23 2012 01:05. Posts 589 | Profile Blog # |
I love it in PvZ, easy fast 3 base for me, although its really hard to grab a 4th...
PvT havent played, never face terran on it! |
| | I despise every terran player on this earth, and I hope there is a special place in hell saved for them. |
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| HeroMystic United States. June 23 2012 03:15. Posts 894 | Profile # |
| There's way too much deadspace. |
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 cmcnutt34 United States. June 23 2012 03:35. Posts 43 | Profile # |
| My only my only experience on this map has been PvT and PvZ. PvT doesn't change at all except one good place to drop next to the third, and drops in the main can be pesky to deal(not THAT much more than other maps though). PvZ, spine crawler walls are pretty effective because every path leading into their 3 bases are choked pretty much. The good thing though, if you open stargate and spawn close airspace, you can make sure there's never overlords there and send a mothership to their main to mass recall, then safely get to your main and mass recall back! Other than that I don't really enjoy this map. |
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| FeyFey Germany. June 23 2012 03:38. Posts 4708 | Profile # |
I like it for terran. Against a greedy opponent you can go 5 base really "fast" and use pfs as a flank protection so there are 3 attack pathes on the ground, one through a LoS Blocker with the defender having the xel naga tower, and 2 through PFs. Haven't played it to often and Zergs currently feel so safe, especially on this map, that anything surprising throws them off.
That being said you can also create a pretty safe wallin with a pf at the ramp of the natural, protecting 3 bases from ground attacks.
The backhill at the third is also quiet interesting, sadly marines can only target one mineral patch worker and the gas there. But 2 barracks can wall this hill off, and a siege tank can get the base there. So you have to watch out for it.
Air is a small problem. But its a trap really. With good turret placement and a few vikings, the mutas have no chance of escaping from the corners. So minerals lines are save with static defense, but the air units can hide as well.
The recent zerg buff, will probably prevent this map from getting popular. But a terran can macro really well here and can play out a lategame that can match the other races. And once again the ideas Blizzard added to this map are pretty nice and allow interesting moves.
But if you go up to 100 workers with mules, and go on 5 bases throwing bio at your opponent and don't have to worry because your bases are so far away and all pathes are secure (yay sensor tower for scouting the airspace). And afterwards transition into sky mech. Then thats alot of fun.
Or if you go mech and inch your way forward to your opponent who can't fall into your back unnoticed or make a runby by ground. And if they go for a slow deathball to break you, well you can prepare 2 hours till they arrive.
So this map somehow plays quiet unique for me as terran. Which is probably a reason why its down voted. Standard play is weaker on it.
Creep spread on this map is horrible though ... A few tumors on the ledge at the main and your creep is at the xel naga expansion already.
What makes me love this map is the use of LoS blockers though, giving the defender a nice advantage or the one controlling the xel naga tower.
Also blink stalkers aren't that good on this map for attacking purposes and airplay is a bit easier then on the other maps that got released lately. Haven't seen mutas on this map though strangely, so can't say if they are to strong or to bad.
Like some people mentioned, this map is a rare treat.
I just play for fun though, so i can only view it from a ladder master level, which isn't much. But i actually had my fun on this map with all 3 races, though as Zerg i downvote it after a while, because i only got ZvZs and i try to avoid this free win matchup. |
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| Shorty90 Germany. June 23 2012 05:33. Posts 142 | Profile # |
| I switched from zerg to terran recently so I'm not very good at the moment (high masters zerg/diamond terran). But I feel like this map is impossible to mech on. There is a lot of open space between bases so air play is very strong and generally it's a huge map with a lot of attackpaths. As zerg I like it, terran not so much... |
| | I can't believe I ate the whole thing. |
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| Xequecal United States. June 23 2012 05:53. Posts 380 | Profile # |
On June 23 2012 00:54 Kovaz wrote:
I haven't played it much; I think a lot of people have it vetoed. PvZ I'm not a huge fan. The third is super open which makes it very hard to take a third against 12:00 max roach, and the natural ramp is too large to wall off so you have to wall to the nexus which means you can easily FF yourself into your third and then lose your natural. That said, the open third actually makes me like it in PvP, since it allows a chargelot-archon player to grab a faster third, while a colossus player has to wait longer, which makes both viable choices.
Defending a third from roaches is actually not that bad on this map. You can put a pylon on the low ground next to your ramp and defend this pylon with sentries on the high ground, then put down your nexus, a cannon at the edge of the radius, and then gateways in front of the pylon and cannon. Then you can extend this wall upward to block off your third, while still being able to get behind it easily from your natural ramp.
However, if Zerg goes mutalisks on this map and you didn't 2-base allin, you pretty much just lose. There's no way to defend. |
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| AGIANTSMURF United States. June 23 2012 05:55. Posts 1206 | Profile Blog # |
seems like an Ok map.
as a protoss vs. terran i get to play greedy like nexus first, and by the time they scout me its kinda late for them to react and do something super cheesey. not to mention the rush distances are rediculous for horizontal spanws and cross spawns.
as a protoss against zerg, certain builds have potential to be super strong because depending on the spawns you can execute a build and zerg wont be able to scout you in time to come up with a perfect counter, so its fairly easy to do damage and secure a third base |
| | Thats "Grand-Master" SMURF to you..... |
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| mbr2321 United States. June 23 2012 06:01. Posts 908 | Profile Blog # |
I absolutely love this map.
Firstly it's enormous, so it lends itself well to extremely greedy plays. The tightness of the natural and the third also make it easy to get up to 3 bases really quickly. Once the game is at that stage, it becomes paramount to control the map-- much more so than other maps. |
| | ~~Treating eSports as a social science since 2011~~ Credo: "The system is never wrong"-- Day9 Daily #400 Part 3 | |
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| Dark.EX United States. June 23 2012 15:39. Posts 1504 | Profile Blog # |
As Terran, I don't like it against Zerg because it's really easy to defend the first three bases as Zerg, and drops are defended extremely easily nowadays so you can't punish the third very easily.
The Zerg can also expand around the map easily as well, and hold those expansions pretty well with Ling/Bane against Drops, as each set of 3 bases is very close together so you only need 1 group of units plus drone pulling to defend expansions. |
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| SC2John United States. June 23 2012 15:52. Posts 922 | Profile # |
It's a large map with a lot of open space in the middle and a relatively hard 3rd to secure.
The towers are in odd locations, which makes pushing weird. Because of the funkily-placed towers and the gigantic open area in the middle, it's ironically really good for counterattacking (if you can run fast enough across the map....). There's a ton of dead space on the map around the edges, I suppose to make every spawn "close by air".
Vertical spawn positions are just stupid based on the towers and how the expansions are laid out. Horizontal spawn positions force both players to play on only half the map, save for hidden expansions. Cross positions are okay, but the map is so goddamn huge and open and splitmap scenarios make the watchtowers useless.
There's almost nowhere to proxy a building. The only places I can find are the raised area at the 3rd and the watchtower blindspot at 6 and 12 o'clock positions.
Zergs are going to have fun on this map going ultra/infestor/ling. Terrans and protosses are going to cry before their 3rd gets up. I believe most games are going to be won based around 3rd base timings or by extremely mobile forces. All in all, I would say that zerg should win like 80% of the time on this map. Just another "high-quality" Blizzard map.... |
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| Xaldarian Netherlands. June 23 2012 16:26. Posts 65 | Profile # |
| I like this map for most matchups. Had a nice PvZ the other day where I went skytoss, 7 phoenixes and then pure Voidray vs a greedy zerg good for blink and warpprism play as well. |
| | Those who lived in darkness have seen a great light |
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| Hypemeup Sweden. June 23 2012 16:46. Posts 2631 | Profile # |
I really like it for TvT. It usually gives more long, awesome games with turret rings, sensor towers and tank chess which I love!
I dont like it TvZ or TvP though, the map seems to make it even easier for these matchups to go into the lategame where T just gets rolled, it is way to big for these MUs I feel :/ |
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| Decendos Germany. June 23 2012 16:59. Posts 916 | Profile # |
| vetoed it. its just so P favored. the bigger the map, the better for P since the broken warpgate mechanics mean no defenders advantage but P himself has better defenders advantage since T and Z have to run all over the map to get to their base. plus easy 3 base for P is always hard to play against. |
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| Servius_Fulvius United States. June 23 2012 23:56. Posts 947 | Profile # |
I played this map once and veto'd it immediately.
The game was against a random who spawned terran. This is high plat, so the randoms usually have decent-ish macro, but little details aren't as developed. Anyway, I recently started learning a new ZvT and this was one of the first games I played.
The game was pretty passive until about 13 minutes. At this point there was a 4 medivac drop that sieged up the ridge above my third and took out the hatchery. 2 more drops like this happened and I lost the third a second time. My foe then took a max army and placed it in the choke near the fourth base. Unit clumping allowed me to fungal it and wreck the remnants. I later went on to win, but only because this terran wasn't dropping enough.
I veto'd the map because I want to focus more on macro with the new build instead of pushing all my attention to defending the ridge at the third. I'll probably feel different about it and take the veto off in a few weeks (I just unveto'd entombed valley for the same reason), so we'll see how it goes. Last edit: 2012-06-23 23:57:08 |
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| WarSame Canada. June 23 2012 23:58. Posts 847 | Profile Blog # |
| As Protoss I love it. It's pretty large, making PvT pretty easy. PvZ is really easy for me on this map(I think I've lost one out of 6 or so). |
| | My failures are my fault. My successes are my fault. To think otherwise is to throw away responsibility for my self. | |
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| Insoleet France. June 24 2012 00:01. Posts 1383 | Profile # |
I vetoed this map after some practice against friends. Too large, as Zerg we can't play on it. Easy for opponents to grab 3 bases and more, and lategame slow zerg army just suck, because the maps are too huge and units too slow.
It's totally a protoss map. |
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| TheAwesomeAll Netherlands. June 24 2012 00:12. Posts 1548 | Profile # |
| as a terran i feel its too good for terran, I really like the main and natural of this map. the main is just perfect for terran close ramp lots of space, every map should be like that. Also the ridge behind the nat is just a gift to terrans. |
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