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| gillon Sweden. June 25 2012 04:09. Posts 1417 | Profile Blog # |
Replay: http://drop.sc/204602
He did a variation of really heavy gate pressure and a fast third nexus, I was playing very standard. I hold the attack which continues on for 5 something minutes, and when I can finally move out I'm facing completed storm and 4 base toss, which means gg at that point.
What should I do differently? The only things I can see is being more active about bringing SCVs back to mining between the push rounds and by doing that being able to add rax 4 and 5 earlier. Doing that might have meant that I could have broken the push earlier and done damage before the storm timing which is basically required. Can you guys see anything else?
Scouting the third wouldn't have helped me, there is no reaction you can do in time by that point build wise.
Both me and opponent are high masters, I'd appreciate any input you might have.
Thanks.
EDIT: Please watch the replay.Last edit: 2012-06-25 05:20:21 |
| | www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열 |
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 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr June 25 2012 04:36. Posts 544 | Profile # |
i wonder where did all the ppl who say this buid is absolutely balanced did go if they cant give u answer but ok, need to wait for sc2 to update cuz not on my computer but just for one did u try to get rines ready to counter when he moves out ? like 2 groups of 4 or so. cuz if u do just after he warped in at ur base if u defend ull be ahead just need a bit of multitasking cuz ur not zerg and marines are dumb. idk i win some games with that but its a bit gimmicky, otherwise only way ive seen it lose in progames is blind counter like cloak(too bad its not viable in tvp anymore) or 3cc, tanks builds etc. will post ater when i can watch rep
User was warned for this post |
| | awaiting the return of the space cowboy |
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| gillon Sweden. June 25 2012 04:56. Posts 1417 | Profile Blog # |
On June 25 2012 04:36 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
i wonder where did all the ppl who say this buid is absolutely balanced did go if they cant give u answer but ok, need to wait for sc2 to update cuz not on my computer but just for one did u try to get rines ready to counter when he moves out ? like 2 groups of 4 or so. cuz if u do just after he warped in at ur base if u defend ull be ahead just need a bit of multitasking cuz ur not zerg and marines are dumb. idk i win some games with that but its a bit gimmicky, otherwise only way ive seen it lose in progames is blind counter like cloak(too bad its not viable in tvp anymore) or 3cc, tanks builds etc. will post ater when i can watch rep
I was way low on unit count as it is compared to his insane production so I don't seen how I would've held having any marines out on the map. Not to mention he'd have seen it with a stalker and bullied the marines to death.Last edit: 2012-06-25 04:56:28 |
| | www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열 |
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| BlackDeath1 United States. June 25 2012 04:56. Posts 27 | Profile # |
This is a very hard build to deal with, but what I do is play equally greedy while holding off the gateway pressure, that means getting a quick 3rd CC, possibly even double ups as well. Also get ghosts quickly in anticipation of the storm transition and when you are finished holding off the gateway pressure, secure your third, start your 4th, and move out with upgraded MMM and ghosts and try to do some damage.
User was warned for this post |
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| gillon Sweden. June 25 2012 04:58. Posts 1417 | Profile Blog # |
On June 25 2012 04:56 BlackDeath1 wrote:
This is a very hard build to deal with, but what I do is play equally greedy while holding off the gateway pressure, that means getting a quick 3rd CC, possibly even double ups as well. Also get ghosts quickly in anticipation of the storm transition and when you are finished holding off the gateway pressure, secure your third, start your 4th, and move out with upgraded MMM and ghosts and try to do some damage.
3rd CC before 4th and 5th rax I presume? |
| | www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열 |
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| johnny123 June 25 2012 04:59. Posts 483 | Profile # |
do like what all of us terrans ladder noobs do on the ladder. 1/1/1 or 2 rax marine bunker rush. with early banshe cloak and siege, you will do a number to his econ while you cannot be busted lol
User was warned for this post |
| | Favorite players,Stephano/MVP/Nestea/Gumiho/Life/Jaedong/MMA |
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| AceLight New Zealand. June 25 2012 05:03. Posts 199 | Profile # |
When FXOGumiho played Parting, he just made Tanks (not 1-1-1 but tanks off 2 base) and went Cloak Banshee. Parting's 8 gate has no detection.
User was warned for this post |
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| gillon Sweden. June 25 2012 05:05. Posts 1417 | Profile Blog # |
On June 25 2012 05:03 AceLight wrote:
When FXOGumiho played Parting, he just made Tanks (not 1-1-1 but tanks off 2 base) and went Cloak Banshee. Parting's 8 gate has no detection.
Yes, but he didn't get cloak reactively. It just so happened that he faced a build where his build was extremely effective. You can't simply tack on cloacked banshee to a standard TvP opener when you realize he's doing this build, because he'll have plenty of time to add detection. |
| | www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열 |
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| CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr June 25 2012 05:06. Posts 544 | Profile # |
On June 25 2012 04:56 gillon wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 04:36 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
i wonder where did all the ppl who say this buid is absolutely balanced did go if they cant give u answer but ok, need to wait for sc2 to update cuz not on my computer but just for one did u try to get rines ready to counter when he moves out ? like 2 groups of 4 or so. cuz if u do just after he warped in at ur base if u defend ull be ahead just need a bit of multitasking cuz ur not zerg and marines are dumb. idk i win some games with that but its a bit gimmicky, otherwise only way ive seen it lose in progames is blind counter like cloak(too bad its not viable in tvp anymore) or 3cc, tanks builds etc. will post ater when i can watch rep
I was way low on unit count as it is compared to his insane production so I don't seen how I would've held having any marines out on the map. Not to mention he'd have seen it with a stalker and bullied the marines to death.
well u can be trycky whith how u hide but fyi i think ive beaten this very guy like that few days ago, if not it him it was a protoss with same mmr/ladder rating. thing is if he runs his probes around on his 3rd and nat there goes his insane production. look at it that way: ull need bunkers, and ull need to pull scvs. so terran production is bad, and protoss virtually doesnt have to do anything ot get it, resulting in free midgame production lead for toss. i make it work at same level as u, thats why im posting that. |
| | awaiting the return of the space cowboy |
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| Oinkey June 25 2012 05:13. Posts 6 | Profile # |
On June 25 2012 05:06 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 04:56 gillon wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:36 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
i wonder where did all the ppl who say this buid is absolutely balanced did go if they cant give u answer but ok, need to wait for sc2 to update cuz not on my computer but just for one did u try to get rines ready to counter when he moves out ? like 2 groups of 4 or so. cuz if u do just after he warped in at ur base if u defend ull be ahead just need a bit of multitasking cuz ur not zerg and marines are dumb. idk i win some games with that but its a bit gimmicky, otherwise only way ive seen it lose in progames is blind counter like cloak(too bad its not viable in tvp anymore) or 3cc, tanks builds etc. will post ater when i can watch rep
I was way low on unit count as it is compared to his insane production so I don't seen how I would've held having any marines out on the map. Not to mention he'd have seen it with a stalker and bullied the marines to death.
well u can be trycky whith how u hide but fyi i think ive beaten this very guy like that few days ago, if not it him it was a protoss with same mmr/ladder rating. thing is if he runs his probes around on his 3rd and nat there goes his insane production. look at it that way: ull need bunkers, and ull need to pull scvs. so terran production is bad, and protoss virtually doesnt have to do anything ot get it, resulting in free midgame production lead for toss. i make it work at same level as u, thats why im posting that.
... wait what? |
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| gillon Sweden. June 25 2012 05:15. Posts 1417 | Profile Blog # |
On June 25 2012 05:06 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 04:56 gillon wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:36 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
i wonder where did all the ppl who say this buid is absolutely balanced did go if they cant give u answer but ok, need to wait for sc2 to update cuz not on my computer but just for one did u try to get rines ready to counter when he moves out ? like 2 groups of 4 or so. cuz if u do just after he warped in at ur base if u defend ull be ahead just need a bit of multitasking cuz ur not zerg and marines are dumb. idk i win some games with that but its a bit gimmicky, otherwise only way ive seen it lose in progames is blind counter like cloak(too bad its not viable in tvp anymore) or 3cc, tanks builds etc. will post ater when i can watch rep
I was way low on unit count as it is compared to his insane production so I don't seen how I would've held having any marines out on the map. Not to mention he'd have seen it with a stalker and bullied the marines to death.
well u can be trycky whith how u hide but fyi i think ive beaten this very guy like that few days ago, if not it him it was a protoss with same mmr/ladder rating. thing is if he runs his probes around on his 3rd and nat there goes his insane production. look at it that way: ull need bunkers, and ull need to pull scvs. so terran production is bad, and protoss virtually doesnt have to do anything ot get it, resulting in free midgame production lead for toss. i make it work at same level as u, thats why im posting that.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand. How do you get any marines out on the map when your opponent has 100% vision of your entrance at that point with stalkers, and can bully them however he wants? |
| | www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열 |
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| CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr June 25 2012 05:16. Posts 544 | Profile # |
On June 25 2012 05:13 Oinkey wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 05:06 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:56 gillon wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:36 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
i wonder where did all the ppl who say this buid is absolutely balanced did go if they cant give u answer but ok, need to wait for sc2 to update cuz not on my computer but just for one did u try to get rines ready to counter when he moves out ? like 2 groups of 4 or so. cuz if u do just after he warped in at ur base if u defend ull be ahead just need a bit of multitasking cuz ur not zerg and marines are dumb. idk i win some games with that but its a bit gimmicky, otherwise only way ive seen it lose in progames is blind counter like cloak(too bad its not viable in tvp anymore) or 3cc, tanks builds etc. will post ater when i can watch rep
I was way low on unit count as it is compared to his insane production so I don't seen how I would've held having any marines out on the map. Not to mention he'd have seen it with a stalker and bullied the marines to death.
well u can be trycky whith how u hide but fyi i think ive beaten this very guy like that few days ago, if not it him it was a protoss with same mmr/ladder rating. thing is if he runs his probes around on his 3rd and nat there goes his insane production. look at it that way: ull need bunkers, and ull need to pull scvs. so terran production is bad, and protoss virtually doesnt have to do anything ot get it, resulting in free midgame production lead for toss. i make it work at same level as u, thats why im posting that.
... wait what?
thx for reply bro ic u very smart |
| | awaiting the return of the space cowboy |
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| hellokittySC2 United States. June 25 2012 05:18. Posts 321 | Profile # |
Vs 3 nexus you really should go for a 2 base all in, multi drop and multipron attack, they don't really have much tech and cannot hold off all the harassment and attacks properly, you just have to find easy openings in their thin defense
User was warned for this post |
| | hellokitty.278, http://twitch.tv/noobeater5 为中国人在星际上争气！ |
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| Oinkey June 25 2012 05:18. Posts 6 | Profile # |
On June 25 2012 05:16 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 05:13 Oinkey wrote:
On June 25 2012 05:06 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:56 gillon wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:36 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
i wonder where did all the ppl who say this buid is absolutely balanced did go if they cant give u answer but ok, need to wait for sc2 to update cuz not on my computer but just for one did u try to get rines ready to counter when he moves out ? like 2 groups of 4 or so. cuz if u do just after he warped in at ur base if u defend ull be ahead just need a bit of multitasking cuz ur not zerg and marines are dumb. idk i win some games with that but its a bit gimmicky, otherwise only way ive seen it lose in progames is blind counter like cloak(too bad its not viable in tvp anymore) or 3cc, tanks builds etc. will post ater when i can watch rep
I was way low on unit count as it is compared to his insane production so I don't seen how I would've held having any marines out on the map. Not to mention he'd have seen it with a stalker and bullied the marines to death.
well u can be trycky whith how u hide but fyi i think ive beaten this very guy like that few days ago, if not it him it was a protoss with same mmr/ladder rating. thing is if he runs his probes around on his 3rd and nat there goes his insane production. look at it that way: ull need bunkers, and ull need to pull scvs. so terran production is bad, and protoss virtually doesnt have to do anything ot get it, resulting in free midgame production lead for toss. i make it work at same level as u, thats why im posting that.
... wait what?
thx for reply bro ic u very smart
not smart enough apparently
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| gillon Sweden. June 25 2012 05:19. Posts 1417 | Profile Blog # |
On June 25 2012 05:18 area51Hellokitty wrote:
Vs 3 nexus you really should go for a 2 base all in, multi drop and multipron attack, they don't really have much tech and cannot hold off all the harassment and attacks properly, you just have to find easy openings in their thin defense
I see your logic, but you struggle holding the 8 gate attack at the natural enough even with all your units there. I don't see how I'm supposed to pull units away from there. Even with the fast third he still has WAY more units than me.
His attack hits at like 8:30, way before medivacs.Last edit: 2012-06-25 05:21:06 |
| | www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열 |
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| CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr June 25 2012 05:20. Posts 544 | Profile # |
On June 25 2012 05:15 gillon wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 05:06 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:56 gillon wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:36 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
i wonder where did all the ppl who say this buid is absolutely balanced did go if they cant give u answer but ok, need to wait for sc2 to update cuz not on my computer but just for one did u try to get rines ready to counter when he moves out ? like 2 groups of 4 or so. cuz if u do just after he warped in at ur base if u defend ull be ahead just need a bit of multitasking cuz ur not zerg and marines are dumb. idk i win some games with that but its a bit gimmicky, otherwise only way ive seen it lose in progames is blind counter like cloak(too bad its not viable in tvp anymore) or 3cc, tanks builds etc. will post ater when i can watch rep
I was way low on unit count as it is compared to his insane production so I don't seen how I would've held having any marines out on the map. Not to mention he'd have seen it with a stalker and bullied the marines to death.
well u can be trycky whith how u hide but fyi i think ive beaten this very guy like that few days ago, if not it him it was a protoss with same mmr/ladder rating. thing is if he runs his probes around on his 3rd and nat there goes his insane production. look at it that way: ull need bunkers, and ull need to pull scvs. so terran production is bad, and protoss virtually doesnt have to do anything ot get it, resulting in free midgame production lead for toss. i make it work at same level as u, thats why im posting that.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand. How do you get any marines out on the map when your opponent has 100% vision of your entrance at that point with stalkers, and can bully them however he wants?
for one thres mumtiples paths on this maps and anyway a stalker cant contain more than 4 rines effectively who cares if u lose even 100 hp total if u want to counter with them. w/e dude just try to think lol zergs would still get lings out when 4 hellions would contain them. most protoss are unable to watch the minimap enough and will lose the stalker/health if u can tell theyre not watching it(just send an scv in their base, theyll watch that, go kill the stalker if u time it ok) |
| | awaiting the return of the space cowboy |
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| CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr June 25 2012 05:22. Posts 544 | Profile # |
On June 25 2012 05:18 Oinkey wrote:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2012 05:16 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
On June 25 2012 05:13 Oinkey wrote:
On June 25 2012 05:06 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:56 gillon wrote:
On June 25 2012 04:36 CtrlShiftAltGrrrrrrr wrote:
i wonder where did all the ppl who say this buid is absolutely balanced did go if they cant give u answer but ok, need to wait for sc2 to update cuz not on my computer but just for one did u try to get rines ready to counter when he moves out ? like 2 groups of 4 or so. cuz if u do just after he warped in at ur base if u defend ull be ahead just need a bit of multitasking cuz ur not zerg and marines are dumb. idk i win some games with that but its a bit gimmicky, otherwise only way ive seen it lose in progames is blind counter like cloak(too bad its not viable in tvp anymore) or 3cc, tanks builds etc. will post ater when i can watch rep
I was way low on unit count as it is compared to his insane production so I don't seen how I would've held having any marines out on the map. Not to mention he'd have seen it with a stalker and bullied the marines to death.
well u can be trycky whith how u hide but fyi i think ive beaten this very guy like that few days ago, if not it him it was a protoss with same mmr/ladder rating. thing is if he runs his probes around on his 3rd and nat there goes his insane production. look at it that way: ull need bunkers, and ull need to pull scvs. so terran production is bad, and protoss virtually doesnt have to do anything ot get it, resulting in free midgame production lead for toss. i make it work at same level as u, thats why im posting that.
... wait what?
thx for reply bro ic u very smart
not smart enough apparently
why are u posting retarded one liners without explaining what u didnt understand its both offensive and annoying, but ur likely 12 years old
User was warned for this post |
| | awaiting the return of the space cowboy |
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| hellokittySC2 United States. June 25 2012 05:23. Posts 321 | Profile # |
| How do you have a hard problem when you have 4 bunkers and +1 upgrade? When does the 8 hate pressure hit? You need to scout for the 3rd base with your awesome, sneaky, and tankie scv, they get very late gates and you can even attack and harass right after they drop their 3rd nexus, not everyone has parting micro to hold off 8-12 marines with 1 stalker and 2 sentries |
| | hellokitty.278, http://twitch.tv/noobeater5 为中国人在星际上争气！ |
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| Oinkey June 25 2012 05:23. Posts 6 | Profile # |
w/e dude just try to think lol
that's golden! |
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| gillon Sweden. June 25 2012 05:25. Posts 1417 | Profile Blog # |
On June 25 2012 05:23 area51Hellokitty wrote:
How do you have a hard problem when you have 4 bunkers and +1 upgrade? When does the 8 hate pressure hit? You need to scout for the 3rd base with your awesome, sneaky, and tankie scv, they get very late gates and you can even attack and harass right after they drop their 3rd nexus, not everyone has parting micro to hold off 8-12 marines with 1 stalker and 2 sentries
4 bunkers isn't necessary and will only delay production and won't add firepower because of minerals spent that could have gone towards 4th and 5th rax. It hits at 8:30, so quite early. And from there on he has incredible production.
Watch the replay. |
| | www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열 |
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