Website Feedback
Closed Threads
IRC Web ChatTeamSpeak 3 (81 users) Active: 9202 users | |
|
| Jerubaal United States. June 27 2012 13:24. Posts 2530 | Profile # |
On June 27 2012 13:12 VanGarde wrote: Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 13:08 Sea_Food wrote: What is up with so many people wanting to learn the dead language latin? Everyone argues that after you know it, learning other latin based languages like italian, spanish, portugese and french will be easier. Well guess what. If you want to learn spanish, learn spanish, not latin.
Not to mention that the argument is in fact wrong as well. Learning latin does not help you learn the other roman languages what so ever. The only reason to study latin is if you are really into languages and want to study it to understand the evolution of the other roman languages. But unless you are a linguist or a serious language nutcase, learning latin is a massive waste of time.
Hmm, let's see. I could read the works of some of the greatest minds the world has ever seen in their native language or I could have the most prosaic conversations imaginable with living people.
As I tell the people who brag about being bilingual, great, you can say nothing in two languages.
In my experience, one thing that holds a lot of people back is that they have a weak grasp of grammar and studying Latin or Ancient Greek will definitely help with that, whereas that tends to be de-emphasized in conversational programs. But maybe that's just me.
Last edit: 2012-06-27 13:24:39 |
| | I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain. |
|

|
| True_Spike Poland. June 27 2012 13:32. Posts 1869 | Profile # |
You'll never actually learn any language that way. You'll grasp the basics and will probably be able to communicate (again, on a very basic level), but this is actually very far from being fluent in a language.
The best way is to learn one by one and only after you reached a point in your fluency that you are satisfied with you should change the focus of your study to a different language (all the while practicing what you learned already, so that all the effort you put into it won't go to waste).Last edit: 2012-06-27 13:33:22 |
| |
|
| sCCrooked Korea (South). June 27 2012 13:34. Posts 1068 | Profile Blog # |
| I'll pass on a little bit of knowledge and advice from one of my 6 professional translator family members. The best way to retain a language without live speakers or culture to keep it fresh is to simply read/write/think the language at least a few minutes per day. That last of the 3 is especially important to note. |
| | Follow the yellow brick road and you'll find whoever is f*cking with you. |
|
|
| Marou Korea (South). June 27 2012 13:38. Posts 999 | Profile Blog # |
My advice is : get Latin out of your list, i've learned it a bit at school when younger and not only it is hard it also ridiculously useless. You can learn 10 language, the problem is keeping them, learning a language is not "very hard", it's being able to keep it over the course of the year that is.
I speak a few language and honestly the best thing to learn a language is straight up going to the country and live there. That's what i'm doing with korean right now and that's what i'll do in a few years in lebanon because i want to get my arabic back. |
| |
|
| SpaceFighting New Zealand. June 27 2012 13:42. Posts 681 | Profile # |
On June 27 2012 02:17 IrOnKaL wrote: My goal is to just become fluent in a second language. I've tried a few but I have been flaky with all of them. Three years of french, 2 years of korean currently. I almost forgot all of french besides the very basics. I learn fast but also forget fast if I take any breaks T.T
EDIT: Good luck with Japanese though...I have a friend who has been taking classes for 5 years and he still has a hard time watching anime, dramas etc.
exactly like me... i took korean for just 1 semester, i went over like notes for 30 mins a day and i got an A+ in the final exam.. i learn hella fast in almost anything, but once i take a week off or something i start shitting on my grades.. it gets annoying and is really demotivating when u learn something to some degree then forget it after a short amount of time X_X
also im fluent in english, philippino, spanish xD and like i said, 1 semester in korean.. so i know the basics of the basic, easy to read and write, hard to actually understand it since ive stopped for 2-3 weeks now |
| |

|
| phiinix United States. June 27 2012 13:44. Posts 1124 | Profile Blog # |
On June 27 2012 03:44 JieXian wrote: Use Michel Thomas for grammar/structure/rules, then Pimsleur to have it applied more naturally and then go back to Michel Thomas plus Memrise along the way.
Then read stuff (someone please help me with this, currently sticking to yahoo homepage), use Wordreference to find out meanings with the help of a forum. Go to language exchange site like Conversation exchange or sharedtalk or livemocha to find people to talk to online (we don't have many foreigners in Malaysia so I'll have to stick to that). Change the user interface or anything at all. Try Vistalizator for Windows. Get people to recommend movies/shows etc.
Planning to learn/improve on these languages. My profiency in them according to rank:
1) English - native 2) Mandarin - native 3) Malay - native - understand and listen perfectly but forget a lot of words when it comes to writing to speaking 4) French - planning to take DELF B2 5) Spanish - planning to take DELE B1 6) Portugese - A2 easily with some quick revision- just started but I expect to pick this up really fast 7) German - probably at A2 level - not easy at all 8) Russian - going to be A2 in a few months - Also really hard 9) Arabic - Haven't started learning yet. The number of dialects being used instead of standard arabic is very unmotivating. Also, michel thomas and pimsleur don't teach standard arabic.... what to do... I really want to learn Arabic 10) Not important for now
Let's have an exchange right here on TL since we definitely have similar interests and we are stuck to the computer haha it would be much more productive finding online language exchange partners from TL
PM me please if your language is in my list and you're interested to help. I can teach you or we can just chat by Skype or something
That sounds aweesome. Maybe I should go back to trying to learn spanish and mandarin.. But learning a language is sooo daunting. I didn't feel like I had a good grasp on english grammar until I like sophomore year, so maybe like 10 years starting from age 6? It's still easy for a lot of people to mix is/are and singular/plural. I think I'll check out some of those sites |
|

|
| tRavE United States. June 27 2012 13:47. Posts 21 | Profile # |
On June 27 2012 08:42 Seiferz wrote:3. Korean - I can read/write/understand simple and conversational korean. I started learning in January and I use TTMIK mainly while watching a lot of shows/dramas/etc to supplement and reinforce grammatical constructions.
This one just stood out to me, but all these people saying they can understand conversational Korean or what they hear in the commentary videos/streams and it's grammar after months or maybe even a year is ABSOLUTELY comical. I've been studying it 5 days a week since last October until now, excluding a 2 week Christmas break and a few federal holidays here in the US and I still have trouble with it. 8 hours a day in class, 5 days a week, all Korean. Including HW and self-study on weeknights/weekends its easily 50+ hours a week. Do that math, that's a lot of hours. Plus, I watch dramas and movies almost daily in Korean, talk to Korean people, all my teachers are native speakers. I'm also first in my class and pick it up the fastest, so don't try to make excuses, stop trying to flex your e-peens and lie about that shit. ESPECIALLY when your native tongue is something other than an asian language.
Just my 2 cents, anyways, good luck on your endeavor, once I finish Korean, I was thinking of picking up Mandarin and Japanese to make me more versatile at my job. Good luck!Last edit: 2012-06-27 14:02:57 |
|

|
| Tippany Korea (South). June 27 2012 13:51. Posts 762 | Profile Blog # |
On June 27 2012 02:09 XDJuicebox wrote: If you are to take this challenge, what I'm curious to know is, what 10 would you choose? Do you think you can do it? If you had any pointers, what would they be? Any little tricks to learning languages? Any products you'd recommend, like Rosetta Stone? Have any of you embarked on a similar journey? Do you think I'm crazy? ;]
I'd love to hear your guys's thoughts on this.
Wow, this is incredibly ambitious. I'm usually one to say, fuck it, go for it! But I don't know if I'll ever pass 3 or 4. I believe Rosetta Stone was designed around Spanish so the farther away you get from that language, the less useful the program becomes. I tried it once for Spanish. It's ok but human interaction (if possible) is the best, followed by media (tv shows, movies, etc) as a close second in my opinion.
I'm fluent in English and Spanish. I'm moving to Korea next week so Korean would fill out my top 3. We'll see how I fare with that. If I try something after Korean it would probably be Portuguese, although I haven't given that much thought. |
| |

|
| Demonhunter04 June 27 2012 14:08. Posts 1474 | Profile # |
+ Show Spoiler + On June 27 2012 02:30 sCCrooked wrote: Its an interesting challenge I'd heard about from a professor 8 or so years ago. However the version I heard of was 10 languages before you were 30 years old.
Personally, I've already tasked myself with 8 before I'm 30 and that's proving difficult enough. I do believe its perfectly possible. My family has many workers within the government and 6 of them are translators for diplomats. You need 26 languages fluent before you can get that kind of work.
My progress is as follows:
1)English (learned) 2)Spanish (retaining more complex vocabulary needs work) 3)Korean (Can read/write but I still make frequent grammatical errors) 4)Japanese (Can read/write but I still need to expand my vocab and I only know 6,000 Joyo-Kanji characters) 5)Russian (Basic learning stages) 6)Portuguese (Basic learning stages possibly slightly more advanced due to extensive Spanish knowledge) 7)Gaelic (Basic learning stages) 8)German (Basic learning stages) 9)Mandarin (Basic learning stages except in reading since I know some kanji characters) 10)MSA Arabic (Basic learning stages)
Knowing languages has made visiting the world much easier. I may replace one of my options with a more useful or easier language later. Any visits to other countries that speak the languages you know become instantly more appealing to you just because you do not have to worry about that barrier existing.
Learning the second and third languages for me were the most difficult. The reason for this is I chose 2 languages on purpose who had completely different rules from my first language. I know English and Spanish have Latin roots in their origin and all follow a similar structure. The arrangement of Spanish sentences is very different from English and got me used to different arrangements not becoming a problem when understanding the sentence as a whole. The Asian languages on the other hand are off a completely different tree and don't follow the same rules of European langauges at all.
My reasoning for making it harder on myself at the beginning is that it makes other languages easier to learn. Really any from any tree can be used as your first step. I chose Spanish because in America, Spanish-speakers are very common nowadays so I was able to find practice. That knowledge will greatly influence and ease my learning of other European languages. Korean was my original language as an infant/toddler so learning that was a bit more personal in my choice in reasoning. Learning in that tree also helped Japanese progress and eventually will have a large impact on my Madarin Chinese studies as well.
A few pointers is to never stop practicing them. Even if its just watching some videos to hear it or reading a page or two just to look at the language every day. If you stop practicing, you slip back VERY quickly and its much harder to re-learn than to forget. Use them, or lose them basically.
Software can be helpful, but I found Rosetta Stone was actually not amongst my favorites. Its a good way to be immersed, sure, but it involves a lot of guess-work on the learner's part and I found it rather unfavorable. I used a mix of software for visual stimuli when I was at home, combined with books for vocabulary and verbal practice by literally traveling to the environment itself. When I learned Spanish, I frequented Mexico and Peru. When I learned Korean, I simply visited where my ancestral roots in Korea were. Japan was learned by living in Yokohama City before the natural disasters. I know some can't afford to "just go there", but it really is THE quickest way because its all around you. Its in your face which forces you to practice and learn constantly. There's really no substitute for that sort of instant creation of need for the knowledge and understanding.
I've been on this 10-language mission since I was 15 and I don't plan on giving it up. I might not make it by the time I'm 30, but I'll be close enough for my tastes. Maybe giving myself until the end of my life is a much more relaxing deadline, but I work better under pressure. Good luck on your quest, it has shaped my life greatly since I began this journey almost 10 years ago.
TWENTY-SIX LANGUAGES? Both spoken and written I assume? Damn, how long does it take to learn that many? I knew five before I was 8, but three of them were fairly similar to each other, and I learned some French in high school. I thought six languages was a lot...lol.Last edit: 2012-06-27 14:16:25 |
| | "If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA |
|

|
| SamuraiSEA Japan. June 27 2012 14:31. Posts 86 | Profile # |
This sounds like an extraordinary challenge, I'm finding it hard to stay trilingual. I can't even imagine the work and effort needed to be put in to learn 10 languages let alone be able to read and write it as well.....
But the feeling of being able (If you chose the right languages) to communicate in many ways to the vast majority of the world would feel pretty amazing. |
| | Interested in Japanese Music/Movies/Fashion? My blog -> www.aceofhype.com 社会はオレ達が回してんだ (゚Д゚≡゚Д゚) |
|
|
| Sif_ Brazil. June 27 2012 15:19. Posts 674 | Profile # |
Woah, 10 languages is A LOT! Having to practice it frequently so you don't forget everything should consume most of your time.
For me, i'm fine with speaking portuguese (mother tongue), english and grasping a little bit of spanish (since it's so similar to portuguese, i can understand it quite well, just can't really speak). I might be interested in picking up an eastern europe language when i get older though, just because i like how they sound. =P |
|
|
| Seiferz United States. June 27 2012 15:44. Posts 624 | Profile # |
On June 27 2012 13:47 tRavE wrote: Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 08:42 Seiferz wrote:3. Korean - I can read/write/understand simple and conversational korean. I started learning in January and I use TTMIK mainly while watching a lot of shows/dramas/etc to supplement and reinforce grammatical constructions.
This one just stood out to me, but all these people saying they can understand conversational Korean or what they hear in the commentary videos/streams and it's grammar after months or maybe even a year is ABSOLUTELY comical. I've been studying it 5 days a week since last October until now, excluding a 2 week Christmas break and a few federal holidays here in the US and I still have trouble with it. 8 hours a day in class, 5 days a week, all Korean. Including HW and self-study on weeknights/weekends its easily 50+ hours a week. Do that math, that's a lot of hours. Plus, I watch dramas and movies almost daily in Korean, talk to Korean people, all my teachers are native speakers. I'm also first in my class and pick it up the fastest, so don't try to make excuses, stop trying to flex your e-peens and lie about that shit. ESPECIALLY when your native tongue is something other than an asian language. Just my 2 cents, anyways, good luck on your endeavor, once I finish Korean, I was thinking of picking up Mandarin and Japanese to make me more versatile at my job. Good luck!
I think you and I have a different concept of "understanding". I'm not saying I can 100% comprehend everything in "conversational korean" with perfect grammar. I'm saying I can recognize words and groups and phrases and put them into context as a coherent thought. I could give a rough translation of something given a piece, but I assure you I would never be anywhere close to an acceptable translation. But I'm not trying to at the moment.
Learning a language to me isn't something that I put hours and hours of time in trying to get fluent ASAP. For me it's a lifestyle. I don't care if I'm not fluent in 10 years as long as I keep plugging away. If you count music dramas and reading random korean sites along with my daily grammar to improve my pace, then I probably put in 3 hours a day average.
Also I don't have an asian language? It may not be the same language group but knowing Hindi has made pronunciation almost no problem for me simply because my tongue is used to two different languages so forming foreign sounds isn't difficult at all. In fact anyone that was raised bilingual should have similar stories. My korean friends all say that I have an impressively good pronunciation/accent for how long I've been studying.
"Stop trying to flex my e-peens" after you are "first in my class, pick it up the fastest, and put 50+ hours a week into it". That came off as incredibly offensive. Either way, I admire your dedication. If I was in a position where I could take classes like that I would love to. Good luck to you as well. Also if you can find korean dramas with korean subs it helps massively ^^
|
|

|
| Funnytoss Taiwan. June 27 2012 15:47. Posts 1340 | Profile Blog # |
If you pick them up one at a time, it's possible. That said, it also depends on what standards you have for yourself.
I grew up with American English, while my family spoke Mandarin Chinese at home. After moving to Taiwan, I picked up reading and writing Traditional Chinese, and while my English is still better, my Chinese is good enough for me to function pretty much like everyone else in Taiwan, just with occasional writing mistakes, but overall my vocab is plenty. Being able to use the language at work and in life is of course, completely different from actually being good at the language - it's tiring to read through Chinese novels, and I can't skim through newspapers the same way I can in English. I can read them no problem, it just takes longer. However, I'm absolutely terrible at reading "old" Chinese, and that does hold me back to a certain extent, much like not knowing any Latin at all could hold someone's English comprehension back - in most cases, not a big deal, but occasionally you lament not knowing the roots of something.
I studied Japanese for a few years in college and it was a pretty good program, plus I studied in Kyoto for 6 months so I'd consider myself semi-fluent in Japanese - I can understand most of what's being spoken to me, but my speaking and writing skills are quite rusty. Reading is actually relatively easy because of the high number of kanji used. It's been two years since I've used the language regularly, and while I'm already past the point where you "forget" the language, I am definitely not as good at vocab as I used to. I try to watch Japanese dramas when I can to keep my listening up, but it doesn't help my speaking. I wouldn't really consider myself fluent in Japanese - I define fluent as being able to work in a Japanese company, reading and writing E-mails with no problem and such. Can't do it.
All this is to say that you can certainly pick up languages, but it definitely takes a lot of time and effort to do so, and you have to consider what specifically you want it for, because that affects how in-depth you're going. If it's just for more convenience traveling, I'd say go for it. But for most people (geniuses aside), I'd recommend just picking up 2-3 languages and knowing them well, rather than learn 6-7 of them, but really only be conversationally fluent in 1 or 2.
I guess I forgot to respond to the OP's goals question.
I'm pretty much a native speaker in English and Chinese, and semi-fluent in Japanese. (that is to say I can read newspapers, watch anime, hold conversations and such, but my writing is shit)
I'd like to learn Taiwanese, as I can understand only about 50% of what's spoken to me, and I only know a few phrases (mostly common words or swears), and it would be *really* useful to pick it up, especially when traveling to the south. Any language I choose to learn would have to be for practical purposes - I was sort of split between Japanese and Russian in college, and ended up going with Japanese because I realized I just liked the way Russian sounded, but couldn't foresee actually doing anything in Russia, or consume much Russian media.
I'd also like to learn Korean, originally for StarCraft though that desire has diminished a lot what with the scene being shut down. Still, knowing the three major East Asian languages - Chinese, Japanese, and Korean - would be useful in any case, and since I'm already semi-fluent in Japanese, picking up Korean is supposedly quite easy. No kanji to worry about, a straightforward writing system, and a grammatical system that is pretty much identical to Japanese.Last edit: 2012-06-27 15:53:00 |
| | AIV_Funnytoss and sGs.Funnytoss on iCCup |
|

|
| Cramsy Australia. June 27 2012 15:54. Posts 1062 | Profile Blog # |
On June 27 2012 02:17 IrOnKaL wrote: My goal is to just become fluent in a second language. I've tried a few but I have been flaky with all of them. Three years of french, 2 years of korean currently. I almost forgot all of french besides the very basics. I learn fast but also forget fast if I take any breaks T.T
EDIT: Good luck with Japanese though...I have a friend who has been taking classes for 5 years and he still has a hard time watching anime, dramas etc.
Your friend studying in Japan? I feel that if they went and lived there for a while they would accelerate really quickly |
| | "give me 20 minutes and I'll make them quiet" - MVP |
|
|
| docvoc United States. June 27 2012 16:30. Posts 3475 | Profile Blog # |
| I'm gonna try this out, but in a different way, maybe switch up the languages to those of the countries that I live in. |
| | User was warned for too many mimes. |
|
|
| cinnabun United Arab Emirates. June 27 2012 17:02. Posts 16 | Profile # |
I love that there are others out there interested enough in languages to try to learn 10 in their life, let alone before 30! Mine are as follows:
1. English (fluent, first language) 2. Spanish (lost most of it but recovering, second language) 3. Russian (moderate skill, need to retain vocab, third language) 4. Mandarin Chinese (beginning stages, know a few 100 chars, fourth language) 5. Gaelic (Irish) (basically haven't started, know ~15 words) 6. German (haven't started) 7. Hindi (haven't started) 8. Korean (haven't started) 9. Farsi (haven't started) 10. Hebrew (haven't started)
Also Kickboxer is entirely correct, conversation and daily use is key. Staring at a book will do little to further your fluency. Keep on learning! :D |
| |
|
| cinnabun United Arab Emirates. June 27 2012 17:11. Posts 16 | Profile # |
| To all the people recommending that you learn one at a time, or those who are just curious, learning multiple languages (especially if not from the same family) can speed up your retention massively. Something about your brain making more connections at once, three or four words for the same item or action simultaneously, etc etc. Seriously, if you know 2 or 3 and want to pick up more languages, begin at least 2 at once. It really helps! |
| |
|
| nMinhBang Netherlands. June 27 2012 17:31. Posts 65 | Profile # |
Hrmn, quite interesting =o! I do quite want to learn a number of languages, I'm a Vietnamese teen who grew up in the Netherlands, so I pretty much have 3 base languages, English, Dutch and Vietnamese (Which I suck at.) So I guess my list would be as follows.
1. Dutch (first language, obviously) 2. Vietnamese (2nd language, except that I can't really communicate with it) 3. English (third language, progress should be quite obvious) 4. Korean (In the progress of learning hangul properly, how to read it fluently.) 5. Japanese (haven't started) 6. Mandarin Chinese (haven't started)
Not sure if I'll add any more, not that interested in learning more than these atm D; |
|
|
| Jandro United States. June 27 2012 17:44. Posts 7 | Profile # |
| I've been taking Latin in college and its a very difficult language. Infact someone in my class switched to chinese for an easier class. Deffinitely worth learning though as you can grasp Italian, French, English, and Spanish. |
| | Bis vincet qui se vincet in victoria. |
|
|
| JieXian Malaysia. June 27 2012 18:12. Posts 2398 | Profile Blog # |
On June 27 2012 13:44 phiinix wrote: Show nested quote +On June 27 2012 03:44 JieXian wrote: Use Michel Thomas for grammar/structure/rules, then Pimsleur to have it applied more naturally and then go back to Michel Thomas plus Memrise along the way.
Then read stuff (someone please help me with this, currently sticking to yahoo homepage), use Wordreference to find out meanings with the help of a forum. Go to language exchange site like Conversation exchange or sharedtalk or livemocha to find people to talk to online (we don't have many foreigners in Malaysia so I'll have to stick to that). Change the user interface or anything at all. Try Vistalizator for Windows. Get people to recommend movies/shows etc.
Planning to learn/improve on these languages. My profiency in them according to rank:
1) English - native 2) Mandarin - native 3) Malay - native - understand and listen perfectly but forget a lot of words when it comes to writing to speaking 4) French - planning to take DELF B2 5) Spanish - planning to take DELE B1 6) Portugese - A2 easily with some quick revision- just started but I expect to pick this up really fast 7) German - probably at A2 level - not easy at all 8) Russian - going to be A2 in a few months - Also really hard 9) Arabic - Haven't started learning yet. The number of dialects being used instead of standard arabic is very unmotivating. Also, michel thomas and pimsleur don't teach standard arabic.... what to do... I really want to learn Arabic 10) Not important for now
Let's have an exchange right here on TL since we definitely have similar interests and we are stuck to the computer haha it would be much more productive finding online language exchange partners from TL
PM me please if your language is in my list and you're interested to help. I can teach you or we can just chat by Skype or something
That sounds aweesome. Maybe I should go back to trying to learn spanish and mandarin.. But learning a language is sooo daunting. I didn't feel like I had a good grasp on english grammar until I like sophomore year, so maybe like 10 years starting from age 6? It's still easy for a lot of people to mix is/are and singular/plural. I think I'll check out some of those sites
It's normal for people to make simple mistakes or have bad pronunciation. Most people don't really care about doing it well, or are willing to put in the work.
I've been learning French for 2.5 years and Spanish for 2 years with these methods and a moderate amount of extra work. I drive for more than 1 hour to university everyday so that's when I listen to audiobooks. I'm positive that using these methods and some minimal extra work reading using the internet and checking are clearly better choices than going for classes for beginners.
If you're consistent like me you'll get to about A2 (for easier languages) once you're done with the course in 3 months or so. I didn't even do much memrise because I'm too lazy.
However they are freaking expensive if you're going to pay for the audiobooks. |
| | Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! | | | http://www.youtube.com/user/JieXianMusic - Try it! :D | | | I'm a serious student of French, Spanish, German and Portugese looking for help/to chat. Please PM me! |
|

|
| Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Next All | | |
|
|
| |
|

|