I'd like to link their and my feedback here. Please share my (long) video, if you like. Since i am not casting for 1.5 years now, my YT channel isnt strong anymore and i really would love to get to blizzard with my video. Ofc i will read feedback here as well and yes, germans hate my accent ^^
Last edit: 2012-06-29 15:07:50
Doomball United States. June 29 2012 15:36. Posts 26
Only point I agree with is the one about the gear problem in arena. Gear definitely can't have the same impact in PVP, arena definitely needs to have a gear debuff.
For a point of my own, figure out a way to deal with item deflation. Since items never disappear in Diablo, there's becoming less upgrades and therefore less incentive to play. This contributes to the "no endgame" problem. Before, getting good items so you can grind faster and make more gold (and possibly money) is okay, but since items will continue to deflate and gear stat ranges don't change over time, upgrades will become rarer and there will be much less reason to continue playing.
high masters protoss twitch.tv/doomball (not picking up stream again until after college)
On June 29 2012 15:36 Doomball wrote: Only point I agree with is the one about the gear problem in arena. Gear definitely can't have the same impact in PVP, arena definitely needs to have a gear debuff.
For a point of my own, figure out a way to deal with item deflation. Since items never disappear in Diablo, there's becoming less upgrades and therefore less incentive to play. This contributes to the "no endgame" problem. Before, getting good items so you can grind faster and make more gold (and possibly money) is okay, but since items will continue to deflate and gear stat ranges don't change over time, upgrades will become rarer and there will be much less reason to continue playing.
Which is partly why Diablo 3 isnt a serious MMO.
Real MMO are based fundamentally around PvP areas with full loot and dangerous battles, bosses, etc where you lose items on death.
I'm embarrased by my past actions and even more ashamed of my present thoughts and future endeavors to clear my name.
hey it's nice to see that people havent given up on d3(i sort of have)
I do agree with many of ur points but I want to point out a problem i have with one of ur improvements. I think D2 is primarily a planned exhibition, where you level up and you choose where to farm to find X item for X build. You allocate your stats carefully and PLAN. D3 has none of the idea of messing up anywhere other than accidenetly salvaging a great item or dropping from the game.
D3 has the advantage that planning is never neccesary, as in if you find a great item, you can set your skills to accomodate the upgrade of this new item. In this way you will never have to theoretically trade away a great item for your class, and immediately start using it, instead of shying away from it's undesirable stats. (Oh I don't use attack speed that much with my build so this item is bad for me) That would be the case in d2, but not in d3, where you can change your skills anytime.
I think the 'arcade'ness aspect of the game needs to be GREATLY enhanced. Something like 'Diablo walks the earth' or 'jars of souls' kind of thing needs to be in every game, they need more randomness in the happenings of the game, (they have a lot which is great but they need more for the type of game d3 is). And the more random the higher reward. You should be praying for a quest to appear for you so that you have the chance to find what it is that they drop (ie. a unique or rune that only THEY could drop)
Other than this i think it still only scratches the surface of how to make d3 a better game. I just think primarily every class is too similar and boring and NO SYNERGY, and this game design flaw (much like the MULE in sc2) will ultimately be the downfall, at least until something big happens, of d3.
Skimmed through the video (no, didnt watch it all, too long). Maybe its me, but I just have such a hard time taking feedback serious when (as an example) it has a whole page dedicated to Jay Wilson and involves statements like - He does not understand X - Internal testing was false And on and on.
You dont know shit about what Jay Wilson knows. You also likely dont know shit about his role in the D3 development (hint: being the face towards the outside does in no way implicate what decisions you're involved in making, how many more are involved in it too, whether you're just a part of desicion making or actually responsible for them, etc). Throwing out "facts" about their internal testing? You know, it is "internal", so what do you know about it?
And I could make many more examples like this.
Realize that had that feedback been presented in any "serious" environment (such as a part of work at a university or similiar), you would have been absolutely trashed to pieces by onyone opposing you and criticizing your feedback.
That doesnt mean all what you said is wrong or bad, but you really need to cut out the crap. It really lowers the value of your feedback.
Last edit: 2012-06-29 16:36:11
KurtistheTurtle United States. June 29 2012 16:36. Posts 1797
On June 29 2012 16:27 Kreb wrote: Realize that had that feedback been presented in any "serious" environment (such as a part of work at a university or similiar), you would have been absolutely trashed to pieces by onyone opposing you and criticizing your feedback.
agreed. but this is about video games and on youtube.
On June 29 2012 16:27 Kreb wrote: Realize that had that feedback been presented in any "serious" environment (such as a part of work at a university or similiar), you would have been absolutely trashed to pieces by onyone opposing you and criticizing your feedback.
agreed. but this is about video games and on youtube.
Valid point. Maybe I should just shut up and not take it so serious.
But hopefully the OP could at least think about it if he makes more videos. The fact that its 70min alone shows he really put some work into it and is really dedicated to this, and thats awesome. That kinda turned me off when looking at Athenes, and in particular Kripps video, it really just seemed like they sat down, thought about something to say for 5min, turned on their web cams and made their videos. This one really shows dedication though.
Forsti.henning Germany. June 29 2012 19:26. Posts 220
On June 29 2012 16:27 Kreb wrote: Realize that had that feedback been presented in any "serious" environment (such as a part of work at a university or similiar), you would have been absolutely trashed to pieces by onyone opposing you and criticizing your feedback.
agreed. but this is about video games and on youtube.
Valid point. Maybe I should just shut up and not take it so serious.
But hopefully the OP could at least think about it if he makes more videos. The fact that its 70min alone shows he really put some work into it and is really dedicated to this, and thats awesome. That kinda turned me off when looking at Athenes, and in particular Kripps video, it really just seemed like they sat down, thought about something to say for 5min, turned on their web cams and made their videos. This one really shows dedication though.
actually i am a chemnist going for a phd in the future. i see your point. but again: this is youtube and i do not have time to quote every source (cutting a video of 60 minutes takes 10-30 hours of work + 5-10 hours recording). if you search for stuff blizzard (wilson) said before release, they (he) talk(s) a lot about the internal testing of story and endgame.
again i had not time for quotings. everyone who is really involved in d3 knows those statements ("we did not test inferno. we just played it and doubled the difficulty"). those ppl who do not know the statements mostly do not care for sources. :o)
On June 29 2012 15:55 EnE wrote:Which is partly why Diablo 3 isnt a serious MMO.
Thanks for doing this! I watched the whole thing and agree with the majority of what you say (especially items supporting builds and problems with current drop rates/ilvls). Crit stacking I'm kinda unsure if that's too OP or not, depends what you can afford I guess.
But I do disagree with nerfing all res (I have a wizard with a fair bit of all res gear and a ton of int (obviously) and I only have 400-450 res which is pretty low compared to what others seem to be saying). I also strongly disagree with adding enemy immunities, I think that was one of the few bad things about d2, if you want to be a fire sorc, a4 hell (not to mention many elites) was/were impossible and that's just stupid. Your build shouldnt make any part of the game (let alone a boss itself) an impossibility. Giving them a significant resistance to certain elements/types of damage however, i think is a prefectly good idea.
Last edit: 2012-06-29 19:37:50
dostoveskiee United States. June 29 2012 20:47. Posts 12
On June 29 2012 16:27 Kreb wrote: Skimmed through the video (no, didnt watch it all, too long). Maybe its me, but I just have such a hard time taking feedback serious when (as an example) it has a whole page dedicated to Jay Wilson and involves statements like - He does not understand X - Internal testing was false And on and on.
You dont know shit about what Jay Wilson knows. You also likely dont know shit about his role in the D3 development (hint: being the face towards the outside does in no way implicate what decisions you're involved in making, how many more are involved in it too, whether you're just a part of desicion making or actually responsible for them, etc). Throwing out "facts" about their internal testing? You know, it is "internal", so what do you know about it?
And I could make many more examples like this.
Realize that had that feedback been presented in any "serious" environment (such as a part of work at a university or similiar), you would have been absolutely trashed to pieces by onyone opposing you and criticizing your feedback.
That doesnt mean all what you said is wrong or bad, but you really need to cut out the crap. It really lowers the value of your feedback.
On his viewpoints and misguided assumptions on actual development, yes he would have been trashed, but even within a "serious environment" intelligent people would know to separate valid points from the erred ones. And to dismiss the whole argument because of an opinion or false assumption, that may have no bearing to the actual points being brought up, is more to do with ignorance than anything else. It's easy to dismiss such claims like that so there's no reason to be rude to the guy; if you have a hard time separating yourself emotionally from a discussion you probably shouldn't take part of it-- because you might pick and choose what you want to hear and disregard the core issue being made right?
That said, he did make valid points from what little I've skimmed through, covering some points on what Athene said in his video. But as for feedback on the points you made, I couldn't give it to ya.. the videos too long so I barely watched it lol. This was mostly a reply to Kreb but if it's feedback on your presentation then it needs to be much shorter than it is. You present so much fluff and bullet points in your slides that it seems you're trying to validate an opinion (which is all it is in the end) as fact. If you have cut out all the fluff you wouldn't have shot yourself in the foot with the Jay Wilson thing, and it prolly would have been under a digestible video length (10 mins maybe?). If you watched Athene's video, it was short and consice; he made a good argument because he explained his points verbally and visually, with no more 'bullet points' to support his thoughts than needed.
Forsti.henning Germany. June 29 2012 20:55. Posts 220
the video is that long because i do much more suggestions then athene. i talked about athenes points in 5 minutes. you can not judge the whole vid by skimming over it.
emythrel United Kingdom. June 29 2012 21:00. Posts 2305
On June 29 2012 16:27 Kreb wrote: Realize that had that feedback been presented in any "serious" environment (such as a part of work at a university or similiar), you would have been absolutely trashed to pieces by onyone opposing you and criticizing your feedback.
agreed. but this is about video games and on youtube.
Valid point. Maybe I should just shut up and not take it so serious.
But hopefully the OP could at least think about it if he makes more videos. The fact that its 70min alone shows he really put some work into it and is really dedicated to this, and thats awesome. That kinda turned me off when looking at Athenes, and in particular Kripps video, it really just seemed like they sat down, thought about something to say for 5min, turned on their web cams and made their videos. This one really shows dedication though.
actually i am a chemnist going for a phd in the future. i see your point. but again: this is youtube and i do not have time to quote every source (cutting a video of 60 minutes takes 10-30 hours of work + 5-10 hours recording). if you search for stuff blizzard (wilson) said before release, they (he) talk(s) a lot about the internal testing of story and endgame.
again i had not time for quotings. everyone who is really involved in d3 knows those statements ("we did not test inferno. we just played it and doubled the difficulty"). those ppl who do not know the statements mostly do not care for sources. :o)
On June 29 2012 15:55 EnE wrote:Which is partly why Diablo 3 isnt a serious MMO.
Diablo is no MMO.
Diablo is an RPG. And to the point you were quoting.... WoW is not an MMO under those conditions and has none of those things, WoW has seperate PvP gear and you don't lose anything on death except your pride. Infact most MMO's don't have those qualities, most MMO's are based around PvE and just put in PvP as an after thought.
When there is nothing left to lose but your dignity, it is already gone.
On June 29 2012 15:36 Doomball wrote: Only point I agree with is the one about the gear problem in arena. Gear definitely can't have the same impact in PVP, arena definitely needs to have a gear debuff.
For a point of my own, figure out a way to deal with item deflation. Since items never disappear in Diablo, there's becoming less upgrades and therefore less incentive to play. This contributes to the "no endgame" problem. Before, getting good items so you can grind faster and make more gold (and possibly money) is okay, but since items will continue to deflate and gear stat ranges don't change over time, upgrades will become rarer and there will be much less reason to continue playing.
Ok, some of you people just seem to have far too much time on your hands, lol. I've been playing D3 for ~160 hours or so since relase, which is a decent bit. I've gotten a single character(monk) up to level 60, and just yesterday, 2 items dropped that were instantly better than the slot items I currently own. And I have 1mil gold and shop the AH. I'm not rich oviously, but I'm decently geared for Act 1/2 inferno. And I have SOOOOOO far to go in items that I don't think I'll ever actually "finish" that character. And that's 1 in 5 characters.
On June 29 2012 16:27 Kreb wrote: Realize that had that feedback been presented in any "serious" environment (such as a part of work at a university or similiar), you would have been absolutely trashed to pieces by onyone opposing you and criticizing your feedback.
agreed. but this is about video games and on youtube.
Valid point. Maybe I should just shut up and not take it so serious.
But hopefully the OP could at least think about it if he makes more videos. The fact that its 70min alone shows he really put some work into it and is really dedicated to this, and thats awesome. That kinda turned me off when looking at Athenes, and in particular Kripps video, it really just seemed like they sat down, thought about something to say for 5min, turned on their web cams and made their videos. This one really shows dedication though.
actually i am a chemnist going for a phd in the future. i see your point. but again: this is youtube and i do not have time to quote every source (cutting a video of 60 minutes takes 10-30 hours of work + 5-10 hours recording). if you search for stuff blizzard (wilson) said before release, they (he) talk(s) a lot about the internal testing of story and endgame.
again i had not time for quotings. everyone who is really involved in d3 knows those statements ("we did not test inferno. we just played it and doubled the difficulty"). those ppl who do not know the statements mostly do not care for sources. :o)
Also valid points. Just wish you would've slowed down a bit on the "fact-stating"-side of things which you in many cases either just assume or things which are not facts but rather personal opinions. It's all fine to state that you, from your information, think internal testing was bad. Its not fine to say "it was bad" and be done with it, because then its presented as a fact.
Anyway, i might have been a bit harsh in the first post, sorry about that, but as someone who values well written feedback there were quite a few "uuurgh" moments there.
@dostoveskiee (spoilered because we're going off topic) + Show Spoiler +
On June 29 2012 20:47 dostoveskiee wrote: On his viewpoints and misguided assumptions on actual development, yes he would have been trashed, but even within a "serious environment" intelligent people would know to separate valid points from the erred ones. And to dismiss the whole argument because of an opinion or false assumption, that may have no bearing to the actual points being brought up, is more to do with ignorance than anything else. It's easy to dismiss such claims like that so there's no reason to be rude to the guy; if you have a hard time separating yourself emotionally from a discussion you probably shouldn't take part of it-- because you might pick and choose what you want to hear and disregard the core issue being made right?
All true, and I'm well aware of that. As you probably noticed, I didnt comment on the points he made (which I guess I should have done to not end up off topic.....as should you! =) ) but rather on how it was presented. So I didnt dismiss any argument considering I didnt reply to them. And I did state that bad presentation doesnt equal bad points. Though bad presentation probably affects everyones bias (consciously or unconsciously) of how well made the points are.
But I was probably too harsh, agreed there. And yea, maybe it would have been better to shut up and stay away from the topic in that case, already said that.
Last edit: 2012-06-30 00:27:15
Zaqwert United States. June 30 2012 02:57. Posts 388
I think all the videos make good points to varrying degrees, but I like Forsti's best.
The most important thing to me missing is having legit builds and having gear that actually supports builds. Everything in D3 is completely interchangeable. Your barb is the same as all other barbs, they can be swapped with no difference. Skills can be swapped, gear can be swapped. There's absolutely no investment in anything.
Gear is completely generic and boring, it's all about numbers.
I also agree that it's very clear that Jay Wilson clearly just doesn't "get" a lot of what made D2 so great.
Watch almost the whole video, but won't discuss every point you made.
But I wanna say I think you comparing this game way to much to Diablo 2, Blizzard isn't aiming to make Diablo 2 but a new Diablo that can attract a lot of new players, the things you like about Diablo 2 would be terrible idea to implement to Diablo 3 like mob immunity to certain magics, speedruns(even though you can do goblins runs which you ignored), having most items only working to specific builds.
Another thing is you focusing to much on very minor details you find annoying were most of the players don't care about.
The biggest problem with diablo 3 in my opinion is that Blizzard didn't dumb down this game nowhere enough from diablo 2, like inferno is to hard(most players won't finish it), builds make way to much of a different(example most classes has around 1-2 similar builds that is even viable for inferno and if you don't have right build your class is pretty much useless), to many different item stats, some stats are completely useless and there is stats like armor and all resistance, vitality and %life when they do exactly the same thing.
I feel very certain that this game won't be big as League of legends, World of warcraft or Call of duty. Hopefully Blizzard fixes the issues I mention in the expansion.
I agree with a lot thats being said in the videos. I bought the game and was super excited to play it. Took the next day from work off actually. Big mistake that turned out to be lol. With all the server downtime and what not. But got to about level 55 (wizard) and lost almost all interest in the game.
CruelZeratul Germany. June 30 2012 06:11. Posts 1774
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and yes, germans hate my accent ^^
EnE June 29 2012 15:55. Posts 417
