[M] (4) Underwater Paradise

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On June 29 2012 20:37 CaptainCrush wrote:
I forsee some zergs complaining about all the chokes though... I think it looks pretty good, but I would be prepared for that.

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On June 29 2012 21:56 Callynn wrote:
On June 29 2012 20:37 CaptainCrush wrote:
I forsee some zergs complaining about all the chokes though... I think it looks pretty good, but I would be prepared for that.

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On June 29 2012 20:29 Callynn wrote:
Looks nice and clean, just wondering;

- Is it cross spawns only?

- Is the 'island' ground near the mains pathable? I'm talking about the peninsula thingy sticking out, it looks like an unpolished part of the map boundaries.

- Can you add an analysis (rush distance, main to main, natural to natural, etc.)?

Also:

- I would flatten the middle area entirely, it is just begging to appear original and fun but I don't think it will play out smoothly at all.

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On June 29 2012 20:37 CaptainCrush wrote:
Looks pretty good overall, I like the layout. I think it could use just a bit more polishing and doodads though.

I forsee some zergs complaining about all the chokes though... I think it looks pretty good, but I would be prepared for that.

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On June 29 2012 20:49 SeinGalton wrote:
It has me thinking of Crevasse a little. I especially like that you're going for an underwater theme - eager to see how that turns out. I feel aesthetics and theme is a big part of a cool map, it should be enjoyable for the players.

Right now the biggest concern for me is the middle - the topology seems very awkward and choky, and I don't see engagements there being fun. I see them turning out very uncomfortable and difficult to control because it's so packed with ramps and variation in surface areas. I think simplifying that will go a long way. The high ground brackets tangential to the destructible rocks also strike me as making the terrain awkward. I definitely think that if you spend some time you can get a better solution that still achieves all the goals you have with the current center.

I also want to echo the concerns over spawn locations - close spawns is going to make it a lot more difficult for one player to take a fourth, and that's particularly bad for a matchup like ZvP. Bad close spawns (say Toss top left and Zerg bottom left) will allow Protoss to easily take 4 bases whilst Zerg will have a tough time getting beyond his third.

My two cents, hope it helps!

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On June 29 2012 21:56 Callynn wrote:


I am actually a Zerg player and not concerned. I see up to four different attack paths to the third and on, which is absolutely fine. Next to that, there is quite a decent open area near the third, though I would perhaps half the size of the 'crack' in the ground that protects pathing to the third.

If that is done, this map is in fact quite balanced.

And don't forget to fix that middle. Make it either one plateau with ramps all around it or flatten it out completely and add some interesting doodadd topology that fits your underwater theme.

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On June 30 2012 00:10 Gfire wrote:
Seems like it has a lot of potential. I definitely think you should submit it to motm, it's pretty much ideal for something like that. The concept is really solid, and the execution is pretty good. With a little tweaking and some polishing, it could be a pretty good map.

I think it's pretty playable, and the layout is interesting.

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On June 30 2012 01:02 FlaShFTW wrote:
love the layout of this map. I feel that it's really well done. Unfortunately, I feel that the map is too choky. consider making the middle a taldarim styled with just a boring plateau.

otherwise, really good map. good third placement :D

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On June 30 2012 02:01 OxyGenesis wrote:
I like the expansion layout, I think the use of destructible rocks is very clever.

Not really a fan of the aesthetics. The idea of an underwater map is original, but seeing units running around on it is kinda silly imo. Also there are no doodads or texture work, I guess this is probably intentional as you wanted to get the layout right first but definitely feels unfinished atm.

I also agree with those saying the middle needs changing. I made this diagram very quickly as to how I might do it, apologies if it isn't very clear.



red = ramp, blue = destructible rocks and Xel'Nagas.

The idea here is that it opens up the middle a bit. With 4 Xel'Nagas it helps a lot with positional imbalances as you can see the enemy coming up their main ramp (they can go through their small ramp or break down the destructible rocks if they don't want to be seen. Feel free to ignore this advice btw I'm new to map making myself.

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On June 30 2012 22:22 Alexj wrote:
These new doodads are great, nice job!

As a P: the ramp on natural seems a bit too wide to wall-off in a safe way, while neutral depo makes it awkward to simcity near nexus. Though I've been doing gate expands lately, so it doesn't matter too much for me

Regarding the center -- it seems like you're trying to go for "split the deathball" approach, in the same way Cloud Kingdom did. Can't be sure regarding how succeful you are, but CK got a lot of praise, so don't pay attention to those zerg whiners One of the big annoyances of CK for zergs is how good sentry immortal pushes are there due to chokey-ness of the 3rd, which is obviously not the case here. This also means P will have a harder time taking their third, but it's not as bad as Korhal Compound.

Overall the map is shaping up great, good luck with your work!

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On July 01 2012 01:57 monitor wrote:
I love this layout. You've really got a nack for creating really interesting stuff that fits with the metagame. I think the aesthetics are the weakest part (I don't like the underwater theme at all), and I'd suggest just to keep working on your textures and doodads.

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On July 01 2012 14:05 WniO wrote:
i really like the red doodads, adds nice contrast to the rest of the map, i think you should implement some redscales textures to it, or something of the sort.

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On July 01 2012 21:44 moskonia wrote:
I wonder, how will you make the underwater affect? Of course you can add many fish and shark doodads, also maybe add many wind affect as well - to make everything move like in water, or you can just make water and put it really high, so everything will be underwater, that will give of course the best affect, but I am not sure if it will be good since it will be harder to control units underwater.

Anyways, by now the map looks awesome, both aesthetics side and balance side even though it doesn't make sense to fight underwater, it is still pretty sweet

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On July 01 2012 23:46 Gfire wrote:
I think you can also reduce the gravity so it feels like you're underwater.

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On July 01 2012 23:54 SeinGalton wrote:
I think it's looking a lot better - that center certainly looks like a more fun place to engage, nice work.

I'm not sure whether anyone else mentioned this or whether you already know - make sure to tweak the reverb/sound effects so that it also seems underwater. With some intelligent use of fog, particle effects, doodads and sound effects I think you can give it a good submerged feel.

It shaping up really well I think, good luck with it in the future too!

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