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| DangerAl Australia. June 30 2012 21:43. Posts 88 | Profile # |
Hey guys, I'm terran in high plat, but might be lucky not to be lower given the lack of protosses I've been playing and my poor TvP. I just played a game where I felt I didn't make all that many mistakes but still got absolutely canned. Here is the replay:
http://drop.sc/210164
So I've managed to identify a few key areas of weakness. My early games got a little but screwed up, first because of my terrible scouting, resulting in me not scouting his nexus first and hence overreacting to seeing double gateways. Then, I accidentally built two tech labs, where I normally only get one. I was able to get Stim-CS-CS out a bit faster but my +1 was late, putting me at quite the upgrade disadvantage. I then make a bad decision in attacking up his ramp, and engaged poorly to boot. Despite these early hiccups, I don't think I was very far behind at this stage.
After that, I feel I could have been a little faster with my tech. In particular I was a little slow with getting upgrades, which I understand is really bad. Fortunately he wasn't all that on top of it either. I took my third base and fourth gas a little slower than I'd have liked to (I suck at timing everything properly while also trying to apply pressure to protoss, but I do it anyway in order to challenge myself), which meant I couldn't immediately afford the upgrades I wanted as well as starting to pump ghosts. Then, I should have set up the infrastructre for vikings a little sooner in anticipation of colossus.
Then it came time to engage. I think I did alright in the first one at the watchtower, but I was sloppy with my ghosts and lost a few of them to feedbacks. I felt I dodges storms well enough and the trade is fairly even. But then in the next engagement I get absolutely crushed, and he rolls over me. I felt my composition was reasonably good, but was perhaps a little light on marines, not to mention I didn't have any vikings. I had some terrible gaps in my production towards the end of the game. In fact, I am quite ashamed about how long some of them were. Actually, now that I look at it closely this may have been one of my biggest issues.
Am I on the right track here? Is there anything else fundamental that I am missing? Also, if you could offer any tips on how to improve these things that'd be much appreciated. Particularly with regards to army control. I know it's not necessarily the most important thing but sometimes I spend like 30 seconds trying to get everything into a control group and organise themselves into a somewhat respectable position, and if I am attack while trying to do this I often die, not to mention it's time spent away from macroing. |
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| Immutant Singapore. June 30 2012 22:19. Posts 183 | Profile # |
Ok, I love your macro, it is always higher than the toss.
Please always check the natural and all other expansions....
1st timing push. If you see so many zealots, don't run right into them. Stim, fake a run towards them, then pull back (and prepare to kite). The zealots will auto pilot run towards you and be killed. It's even better if he FF and all your units are behind the ff, which means he wasted his energy and made a wall vs his zealots.
Other engagements. You do not always have vision. You need to extend your vision, and not put your army at the edge of the fog where the toss can surprise buttsex you (since they have observers). When pushing, scan ahead, assess the situation, and then attack. The second engagement you didn't have the ghost count to match the HTs, but you had good micro which allowed you to maintain your lead. However, subsequent engagements, your army was all over the place and the small groups quickly died to the deathball.
I see you very nicely upgraded ship weapons, so you should also very nicely have at least 2 or 3 reactored starports. You should also make use of nukes when the ghost count gets high.
And wow, congrats on getting to plat! I remember I pmed you before and you were in gold =) Keep it up! |
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| Chaggi Korea (South). June 30 2012 23:20. Posts 1090 | Profile # |
Watching now
#1) You have pretty interesting depot placements, why place the 2nd one there? I dont' really agree with it. I always wall off, use my 13th SCV to start the depot, and have that scout.
#2 your stim is really late in terms of researching, i guess it's good that you got double tech cause you could get both but you could've had stim researching far sooner (it's like 1 minute sooner)
#3) I'm not a fan of the moving out without map vision. You didn't get punished for it on this map but you will when you're a bit higher.
#4) wasted way too many guys killing that archon, u just ran your marines in to the zealots. at the very least put your marauders up front to soak up more blows
#5) you saw an archon morphing, that means templar tech (or i guess DT tech) so you need ghosts. should've put down a ghost academy sooner. also when you're throwing down an armory and the 2nd engineering bay, you should've probably thrown down a 4th gas sooner.
#6) army comp is fine but you didn't scout the protoss in awhile, don't know if tech switch or anything is happening. also losing that factory was bad.
#7) oh that was a painful engagement to watch, the last one. you had so many full energy ghosts, could've easily blanked the army with emp like 2-3 times over but you didn't use them! and had your army so split up! your engagements could be much better. once you're on 3rd-4th base area, you should add on another starport for that tech switch, even tho it wouldn't have mattered now, it's a good habit imo
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| | University of Michigan '10 Alumni |
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| DangerAl Australia. June 30 2012 23:30. Posts 88 | Profile # |
On June 30 2012 23:20 Chaggi wrote:
Watching now
#1) You have pretty interesting depot placements, why place the 2nd one there? I dont' really agree with it. I always wall off, use my 13th SCV to start the depot, and have that scout.
#2 your stim is really late in terms of researching, i guess it's good that you got double tech cause you could get both but you could've had stim researching far sooner (it's like 1 minute sooner)
#3) I'm not a fan of the moving out without map vision. You didn't get punished for it on this map but you will when you're a bit higher.
#4) wasted way too many guys killing that archon, u just ran your marines in to the zealots. at the very least put your marauders up front to soak up more blows
#5) you saw an archon morphing, that means templar tech (or i guess DT tech) so you need ghosts. should've put down a ghost academy sooner. also when you're throwing down an armory and the 2nd engineering bay, you should've probably thrown down a 4th gas sooner.
#6) army comp is fine but you didn't scout the protoss in awhile, don't know if tech switch or anything is happening. also losing that factory was bad.
#7) oh that was a painful engagement to watch, the last one. you had so many full energy ghosts, could've easily blanked the army with emp like 2-3 times over but you didn't use them! and had your army so split up! your engagements could be much better. once you're on 3rd-4th base area, you should add on another starport for that tech switch, even tho it wouldn't have mattered now, it's a good habit imo
I agree with all your points. I did start stim late that was something I forgot to mention about my messed up early game. As I said, my engagement was silly. And I did put my fourth gas down late, I usually try to get it at the same time as my second engibay, but I got distracted this go around. And a ghost academy sooner might have been smart. I guess I felt I couldn't afford it until my third base was up and running. Should I be able to? And EMPs in that last engagement would have been smart. I guess I didn't see any way of killing that army even with all its shields gone.
On June 30 2012 22:19 Immutant wrote:
Ok, I love your macro, it is always higher than the toss.
Please always check the natural and all other expansions....
1st timing push. If you see so many zealots, don't run right into them. Stim, fake a run towards them, then pull back (and prepare to kite). The zealots will auto pilot run towards you and be killed. It's even better if he FF and all your units are behind the ff, which means he wasted his energy and made a wall vs his zealots.
Other engagements. You do not always have vision. You need to extend your vision, and not put your army at the edge of the fog where the toss can surprise buttsex you (since they have observers). When pushing, scan ahead, assess the situation, and then attack. The second engagement you didn't have the ghost count to match the HTs, but you had good micro which allowed you to maintain your lead. However, subsequent engagements, your army was all over the place and the small groups quickly died to the deathball.
I see you very nicely upgraded ship weapons, so you should also very nicely have at least 2 or 3 reactored starports. You should also make use of nukes when the ghost count gets high.
And wow, congrats on getting to plat! I remember I pmed you before and you were in gold =) Keep it up!
Oh, that was you! Thanks immutant. Unfortunately, although I have gotten better overall, TvP is still a terrible matchup for me. Also, thanks for the advice, map vision in particular seems like a good idea that would be easy to implement.
Last edit: 2012-06-30 23:32:56 |
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| Chaggi Korea (South). July 01 2012 09:47. Posts 1090 | Profile # |
If you had money EMP's, the zealots + archon's are gonna melt super fast, especially if you have enough marines to do the DPS. If you kite well - you can easily take that down without many losses.
While macro and micro is very important in TvP, what's more important IMO is the engagements. Terrans can't lose 1 engagement badly or else you're gonna get rolled by the Protoss, so even if you're ahead on everything else, very easy to die. |
| | University of Michigan '10 Alumni |
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