The concept is pretty original with a touch of Crossfire in it. However, the main problem lies with taking a 5th and/or 6th base which could be really difficult to take and maintain in the later stages of the game. Outside the thirds, you have a couple high ground platforms, with one being entirely in your favor. First of all, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you are committed to "covering" your 3rd, and secondly, it makes it your 5th (low ground base) that much harder to take and reinforce because you either have to go through the center or go through your 3rd, which makes this map ideal for 3-4 base play.
I feel you are trying to implement positioning and high ground "key points" but with this conceptual base layout it's just not going to work, considering how far away all your bases are from these high ground pods throughout the center.
Remove the barrier between the high grounds - as indicated above.
Then push the ramp back a little bit - as indicated above.
The 3 and 9 o'clock bases need to be re-designed I think. They are in a spot where it's too close to your opponent's 5th (low ground), or if you choose to take it yourself, it's really hard to reinforce from your center 4th. If your opponent took it, it is now right next to your center 4th (the gas geyser looks in danger of being sieged as well), and is simply, again, too close. It's literally in a contested zone. Consider two entrances into the base instead of just one, with one ramp blocked by rocks.
Also... that's a lot of dirt texture. You should consider 1-2 more textures mixed in.
Last edit: 2012-07-01 06:33:39
ESV Map Maker. || twitter: @ESVironManSC || Author of Ohana, Khalis, Ravage, Khaydaria, Spring
IronmanSC, thanks a lot for your feedback, I really appreciate it.
To adress the issues, I've connected the center high grounds, and added a ramp between the 4th and 5th. The ramp pointing to the lowground base is now covered by rocks. This should help defending the highground base against attacks and also seperate those two bases more.
I agree that the dirt covers too much of the map, but I will leave it as it is for now, until I come up with a better idea. It doesn't look that bad in-game.
Tried some games with rocks. It doesn't really matter if they're there or not, as your army will be big enough to take it down in seconds at the time the path becomes useful, so I've come to the conclusion to not go with rocks in the center.
Hi Scorp, IIIIII here :D Tried a game on the map, the map in itself felt pretty good, but I had some troubles with defending my third because it's quite open, but I'm only Plat so that might be because I suck :D ( Also, on the game I played i forgot my pool which put me really behind, and ZvZ is the worst matchup for me, but I still had a good time playing this game, making a little bit closer than I expected vs a top diamond player :D )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD8QLNiolfk - Racing with the sun
On July 02 2012 22:56 GregMandel wrote: Hi Scorp, IIIIII here :D Tried a game on the map, the map in itself felt pretty good, but I had some troubles with defending my third because it's quite open, but I'm only Plat so that might be because I suck :D ( Also, on the game I played i forgot my pool which put me really behind, and ZvZ is the worst matchup for me, but I still had a good time playing this game, making a little bit closer than I expected vs a top diamond player :D )
Thanks for your comment and time in-game. I can't decide as of now, if the thirds and fourths are too open, it requires more testing. I also had a great time watching the game, it was very interesting, even though there was a skill gap between you.
Author of Atlas | Dreamforge Mapmaking Team
Yonnua United Kingdom. July 05 2012 02:22. Posts 1069
basically the way the centre is with the tower at the moment often leads to the units taking long ways around and half your army dying. Because of the way the paths are in the centre (which I'm going to talk about in a minute) you need to quickly move your army to respond to your opponent moving across the map. Oftentimes half your army arrives to fight first and you just die. Players shouldn't need to babysit their forces when they're just moving across the map.
You can take 2 bases on this map just fine as usual and defending them feels very nice, but problems start to arise when you take the third. I opted for the 12/6 third when playing and it always felt very far away from my base cluster and that I had to move my army right over to it to defend the attack paths in to it - this really sucks for protoss and terran against zerg where they can get smashed by a more mobile and swarmier army. The other third isn't really viable in that situation because it's just so open and there's a direct and fast line between your opponent and the third. Taking a third is pretty tough because of that. Because of the attack paths issue, taking a fourth is even worse because you need to pull your army even further out of position to defend it - whether you go for the other third or the next base in the circle, you'll always be opening up loads of new attack paths making it really tough to hold.
This is what I see as being the biggest issue with the map so far. At the moment, there are 6/8 attack routes across the map, which is a lot. Each of these is kind of broken up further in to loads of other ways that you can be attacked. because of the middle, this often means that half your army is in one path whereas the rest is in another and not engaging. The paths are all so far apart and inaccessible from each other, so you need to go a long way around to cover a path, and you often won't know about the attack until considerably later. Because the watchtower only covers the very central paths you don't get much of a chance to hold off large attacks. This isn't so much of an issue early game where the fastest path is the centre, but late game when the fastest route between bases could be on one of the wings and out of watchtower vision it becomes a lot more problematic. I often had problems where I would lose a base long before my army could even get anywhere near to deal with it. It makes it really hard to maintain the bases on the wings. This is kind of made worse by the base layout - my opponent's third could in theory be right next to my fifth, and at the point in the game, while my army is trying to cover my main, I can easily lose my mining bases to a quick attack outside of my vision.
4) There are some minor defender's advantage issues for later bases - + Show Spoiler +
Most importantly is the raised base at the 3/9. The defender enters that base through a tiny single ramp choke point, whereas the attacker will likely enter through a much wider choke. More worryingly, because of the paths in the middle they'll quite often be in the base before you get there to defend, so you need to fight uphill in to a choke. That's simply not possible a lot of the time so holding that base in particular is really difficult.
All that said, I really did like this map. I love the general concept behind it and I liked the way the paths work in principle - it's just a little much to have to constantly pull back from the centre to defend against an army after it's killed one of your bases for free. I thought that the idea of the zones that you need to hold on the various areas of high ground was really strong. I feel like you could make the map work a lot more by having two towers on the wings instead of one in the centre - have paths which aren't in their vision but make it so that it's feasible to hold off the aggression in the mid-late game. I felt taking bases was really hard late game on this map but the map is definitely workable and could be made really strong if you just deal with the ambiguity of random attacks just killing everything.
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