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| Arisen United States. July 02 2012 13:16. Posts 1935 | Profile Blog # |
Hey teamliquid. I'm working on improving my mechanics, and I've been told the best way is to choose 1 champion in each role to get really familar with and play them over and over. Obviously with banning/counterpicks, etc it's not the best thing to do all the time, but I think it sounds like a sound idea for improving.
So, I'm looking for some input on what champions I should consider using and a few tips based on some of my problems 
Top- Usually I go for mid. top or jungle when at all possible. When I go top, I'm not 100% sure what my goals are. When I'm mid, I know approximately what I should be doing: controlling my lane and when presented with an opportunity maybe steal wraiths or go put pressure on another lane. When I'm top, I don't really have anything in my head for what I'm supposed to be shooting for besides, you know, getting more CS or possibly a kill. I'll ocassionaly wander to mid when the opportunity presents itself, but for the most part I just kind of sit in lane and farm (it's even harder to know what I should be doing in a 1v2 lane since i have so little cs, and 1v2's top happen quite a bit for me)
For champions, I'm really focusing on riven atm, just becuase she's really hard to gank and is pretty powerful (also fun  ). However, a lot of times it seems riven isn't a good choice for my team because we lack tanky heroes, or we need better innitation, etc.
Mid- This is usually my best postion. I've been playing annie because it's really easy to effect my game as an annie. When I play some champions, it feels like no matter what I do, I can't really force the game to go my way. With annie, I feel like I can make things go my way (at least as much as possible). Stun ult allows me to force teamfights when my team is being wishy washy, it allows me to really leverage winning my lanes to help swing the other lanes in our teams favor.
I'm thinking of branching out to a new champion here as I feel very comfortable with annie
Bottom lane-Support
I hate playing support atm. Not because I don't like the role, but it feels like I'm a dicroll away from being completely worthless because my lane partner doesn't last hit. I recently had a game where I was playing Nunu and had a caitlyn for my carry, and she never attacked a minion for like 5 mins (10 cs by the 12 min mark) and I felt like I was just a wasted pick; i could roam, but what good would that do if my carry is just going to die? WHen I'm playing support with decent players, I actually really enjoy it because you can really contribute to your team (watch the other lanes/ping stuff to make them notice, get your carry farmed, etc).
For champions, I've been leaning toward soraka, just because if nothing else, healing your team can never be bad; if i'm playing nunu or janna, sure their steroids are good, but they're useless if the person doesn't use them.
Bottom Lane - Carry
For carries, I have a love hate relationship. If I have a support and they help out in lane, I have a lot of fun with carries. A lot of the time, however, people don't want to play support so they just choose a random hero and either have to share CS or steal all theirs and have a lane partner with no cs and nothing to support with. When I am playing with decent players, I do have some problems when midgame rolls around; im not really sure when to leave my lane, when to stay, etc (unless it's something obvious like a dragon fight)
For champions I've been using Ashe. I like ashe, but she can be frustrating to play with indecisive people. I feel like if my team is dragging their feet, I basically can use my arrow to instagib one guy, but I don't ever feel like vayne or graves who competely dominate a game; i feel like ashe is really good if your team is too, and her utility is really great, but sometimes i wish there was more I could do.
Jungle
Well, Jungle is another one of those things that I really like if my team is doing ok, but sometimes I feel like I'm just good for giving us another solo lane. A lot of people just push straight to tower so I never really get much chance to gank. Even when I do, a lot of times people weren't paying attention so instead of a 2v1 or 3v2 it's a 1v1 and the guy gets away or i have to waste a flash getting away. I try to ward really well and control our buffs and give them to the person who needs them the most. I try to control and do dragons, as well. The problem with this is a lot of people just won't. I've ganked bottom, pinged dragon and ran up there to just have bottom stay afk farming their lane. I just get frustrated when playing a jungler a lot of times (exacerbated by the number of people who will rage at you after dying because you didn't gank for them every time; i've gotten a lot of people rage at me for them dying after they dove a tower :/)
Well, that's what I have right now. A lot of my problems come from players who just don't want to work together (or doing poorly). That's not to say I never do poorly, because I definitely do, but I feel like a lot of the time there's not much I can do, which is why I'm trying to improve enough (and select the right champions) so I can make things happen.
Thank you for your help. |
| | "If you're not angry, you're not paying attention" |
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| Arisen United States. July 02 2012 15:46. Posts 1935 | Profile Blog # |
oh yeah, for junglers, I usually use nocturne or shyvanna. Nocturne seems a bit better because you can ult engage and set of randuins and be pretty ok for a teamfight, but shyvanna is pretty fast, and that definitely has its benifits too
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| | "If you're not angry, you're not paying attention" |
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| EchelonTee United States. July 02 2012 16:25. Posts 3403 | Profile # |
From my low elo experience regarding top lane:
Top lane doesn't have to do nearly as much as Mid lane; it's essentially a 1v1 duel. Often times, esp. in low elo, the skill levels will be mis-matched, so whoever wins top lane either by having a good CS lead, or by killing the other dood a bunch of times helps the team a lot. Top lane is a do-or-die mentality; rarely will it be stalemate. Usually one side wins, and whoever wins puts their team in a significant advantage.
Two other things you can do are dragon control and jungle fights. Dragon control depends a lot on when the rest of your team is ready, but if you can shove your top lane then come down to help dragon, it'll really help your team. With jungle fights, sometimes your jungler will be caught in a hairy situation, or sometimes he wants to steal enemy red/blue, so its up to you to help him out.
Overall though, it's most important to simply win your lane. A champion I love playing top is Pantheon; he has good matchups vs. a lot of heroes, has a good kit to outplay opponents, and with his ultimate has good mobility to help dragon/jungle/mid.
General advice: It's important to have a rational grasp over your own skill. It seems like you are often worried about the competance of your team (good support? good carry?). If you always always have top3 highest CS in game as top/mid/AD, then maybe you are way better and just need to grind out games to hit a higher bracket, but if you are not consistantly in the top CS, it means you have to improve your mechanics, and you should do that first and foremost before worrying about your teammates. When I play normal games instead of MM, it's always hilarious how low the CS is; I can often get the most CS as a jungler. Also, I often have matchups where I am outmatched by hero pick, or I lose through derp or jungle gank, but I remain even or ahead due to simply more LHing.Last edit: 2012-07-02 16:29:45 |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| Arisen United States. July 02 2012 18:14. Posts 1935 | Profile Blog # |
On July 02 2012 16:25 EchelonTee wrote:
General advice: It's important to have a rational grasp over your own skill. It seems like you are often worried about the competance of your team (good support? good carry?). If you always always have top3 highest CS in game as top/mid/AD, then maybe you are way better and just need to grind out games to hit a higher bracket, but if you are not consistantly in the top CS, it means you have to improve your mechanics, and you should do that first and foremost before worrying about your teammates. When I play normal games instead of MM, it's always hilarious how low the CS is; I can often get the most CS as a jungler. Also, I often have matchups where I am outmatched by hero pick, or I lose through derp or jungle gank, but I remain even or ahead due to simply more LHing.
I usually do hit top cs. BUt sometimes there doesnt seem to be a lot to do if your teamate isn't doing what he's supposed to. For example on a support, what do you do if your carry wont attack creeps...at all? Im sitting babbysitting someone who isn't getting any money or I'm roaming and he's going to die. That's an extreme example (though, one that's happened to me a few times, i'm sorry to say). Like I said, I can gank bot on a jungler and then try to get our team to do dragon, but noone will, etc.
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| | "If you're not angry, you're not paying attention" |
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| Lmui Canada. July 02 2012 19:15. Posts 1896 | Profile # |
On July 02 2012 18:14 Arisen wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 16:25 EchelonTee wrote:
General advice: It's important to have a rational grasp over your own skill. It seems like you are often worried about the competance of your team (good support? good carry?). If you always always have top3 highest CS in game as top/mid/AD, then maybe you are way better and just need to grind out games to hit a higher bracket, but if you are not consistantly in the top CS, it means you have to improve your mechanics, and you should do that first and foremost before worrying about your teammates. When I play normal games instead of MM, it's always hilarious how low the CS is; I can often get the most CS as a jungler. Also, I often have matchups where I am outmatched by hero pick, or I lose through derp or jungle gank, but I remain even or ahead due to simply more LHing.
I usually do hit top cs. BUt sometimes there doesnt seem to be a lot to do if your teamate isn't doing what he's supposed to. For example on a support, what do you do if your carry wont attack creeps...at all? Im sitting babbysitting someone who isn't getting any money or I'm roaming and he's going to die. That's an extreme example (though, one that's happened to me a few times, i'm sorry to say). Like I said, I can gank bot on a jungler and then try to get our team to do dragon, but noone will, etc.
If your carry won't take CS, take it for him until he decides to learn how. Most supports such as janna, soraka, sona, taric etc can do well as AP/bruisers. It's much more difficult on melee but do your best. Make it clear to them that if they don't CS, you will. Not much else you can do about it.
Win lane -> win game. |
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| MeteorRise Canada. July 02 2012 19:18. Posts 558 | Profile # |
Honestly, I wouldnt support at your elo. I used to main the support role, but I dropped it after how powerless it makes you feel. As echelon said, the most important thing as top is to win your lane, and perhaps come down for dragon control.
From my personal experience, I tried to focus on a certain role or two, then keep playing it until you could objectively tell yourself that you were way better than before. Then after, branch out into other roles. For me, it was ad carry with top as a back up. I just practiced ad carry crazy hard for like 200 games. Eventually I hit the point where I would pretty much just win my lane, no matter what, at the elo I was at. Then it depended on how heavy the rest of my team is. If you lose your lane at the role youre focusing in, then you could have played better. Even if youre getting ganked or they are getting babysat, you still have to be winning in cs or kills. If youre negative or losing cs, then youre not doing a good enough job and need to focus on improving your own play. I would suggest you focus at getting godly at mid, and play jungle or top as a back up for when you have people instalock your role.
If you win your lane and youre carrying the team, they are more likely to respond to your calls. A good way to play is to assume everyone on your team is retarded and to never count on them, but still be there for them and not just one man show everything. You said your biggest problem was dealing with players with no team play and the best way I found to deal with this is to simply be as good as you can be, and lead them through example. You cant do anything about the randomness of how shitty your teammates can be, but you have to make the best of the factors you control, such as your lane and the plays you make. If you still lose after all this, then whatever, queue up again and eventually you'll win as long as you keep focusing on improving your own play.
I'm not sure if this is helpful at all, but I just wanted to share the mentality and methods I adopted. Good luck and I hope you get better! |
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| Amui Canada. July 02 2012 19:31. Posts 3128 | Profile Blog # |
Because you said you occasionally lane 1v2, I'm going to assume you are still leveling up an account. Realistically, in low elo games, it's a lot easier to win games by farming champions than by farming minions. That said, every 15-20 creeps is approximately the same value as a kill, so do not neglect it.
Top lane your goals are in order
1. Don't die. Later on, you'll find that you can lose lane in the first 5 minutes of the game if you give up just one kill.
2. Deny opponent(does not necessarily mean kill him)
3. Free farm
As a jungler, you generally want to farm as much as possible while taking the following into account
1. Wave push direction - You want to arrive when the creep wave is pushed to your tower, but not when there's a dozen creeps sitting there. Ganking can put your laner behind if he loses 12 CS of exp to tower for a kill.
2. Lane advantage/relative strength - If your laner is 0/5, it's probably not a good idea to try ganking that lane any more unless you can guarantee a kill every time.
3. ALWAYS ping before a gank. A coordinated gank is 10x stronger than an uncoordinated one.
Also, at elo's where you still occasionally don't have a jungler, do NOT ever play support. When you compete for CS with another laner, it's more likely that 2 of you will hit 80% CS, and it's a whole lot better than one person hitting 50%.
As stated, it's important to realize where your own skill is at. Missing "just one or two creeps per wave" means you lose something like 20-40 gold PER WAVE. Imagine how you would NEVER lose lane phase if you could use a potion every wave, that's how much money that is.
You can't win every single game. I've had games where I've been highest CS in game, fed to the high heavens and I still lose whether it be through throwing, bad play, bad team, etc. You can however, do your best to win the ones you can. Remember that your goal is to improve, it's not to win(because with improvement comes winning most of the time).Last edit: 2012-07-02 19:33:02 |
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| JustAGame Germany. July 02 2012 20:09. Posts 139 | Profile # |
1.) First of all:
Mechanics are champion specific. You need only 2 or 3 combos per champion and to improve the mechanics on this you need to play this one champion. This practice wont help you much on other champions.
To get those combos done in a good speed, you need to use your skills on smart cast, BUT not all skills. (e.g. anivia walls shouldnt be on smart cast) This is champion specific as well.
Last hitting has both a champion specific (animation speed) and a role specific (~dmg per hit / range) element. AD carries last hit very easy, melee bruisers at top need to get in position before every last hit and AP carries deal almost no damage to minions.
For this reason its completely pointless to get one champ per role to practice mechanics. The best way to improve at LoL is to get about 5 champions for one role and practice those. To not be flamed in ranked games, you can add 2-3 support champions, that do not really require mechanics training and allow you to practice other skills, such as map control. The worst possible combination is bruiser and AP, since both the lane situation and the last hitting is totally different and do not have anything in common.
The smart combinations are:
Jungle + Top (about the same champion and item pool)
Jungle + Mid (if you are good at mid you can gank mid very well)
AD + Support (since you need be good at both to be able to play one of them well)
You can also combine all roles with support.
2.) Top
Your goal at mid is not to get wraith.. this is simply last hitting. Your goal in ALL lanes is to get more gold than your opponents and more exp, by either last hitting or killing (or both) and by winning objectives like dragon and towers.
Preparing for a dragon is very important for the top laner, since the teleport summoner skill (or the ulti from pantheon, shen etc) allows him to port to the dragon when needed, while all other players are already near dragon anyways.
If you are not last hitting well in a 1v2 lane either you or your jungler is really bad.
Anyways, you should only play draft pick since its the only way to pick the perfect runes /masteries for your lane.
Some small explanation on 1v2 @ top:
At lvl 1 and 2 you are the same level as your opponents and therefore way behind. However you reach lvl 3 before them and get a level advantage. This is when the jungler needs to gank (since both the jungler and you are lvl 3 but the opponents are lvl 2). The key is to not die or be forced back to not lose the level advantage. Champions with high sustain will do the job.
Most people that play 2v1 cant play at all. They will push the lane to your tower pretty fast and will allow you to last hit under the tower and get all the experience. Just wait for this situation and make sure your lane is not pushed ant any time.
Once you went back to buy items, you are way stronger than both your opponents together since 1) you alone got the same last hit they got and you got a higher level. This means you are playing against two half opponent with lower level than yours.
3.)Mid:
Mid is about skill combinations and knowing when to trade and when not to. Annie is not really good anymore since any good player can easily counter her in lane and a good team will split up or focus down annie to make her more or less useless in teamfights. Annie works in lower elo / summoner level, but will fall off later.
4.) Bot
Yes support is annoying when your ad is bad.. This is the way it goes.. In the end you will realize that it doesnt matter, since if you are the AD and the bad player is the support, you cant do anything. As a support you can get a noob fed by being very good, as the AD you are just useless without a good support player.
(The worst i have seen so far was a soraka running into the lane spamming starfall until she died, leaving me 1v2 in a pushed lane with fed opponents, which is simply impossible to win)
Soraka is one of the worst support champions. Healing your team is pointless when you cant even heal the damage done by one hit. Soraka has no real useful skill besides the silence which only works well against champions with channeling ults like malzahar, warwick and katarina. Howevery, each of those can also be interrupted by any other stun, making soraka one of the worst support champs.
the good ones are janna (slow, shield, displacement from ult, "stun" from Q), leona (stun stun stun)
both can stop ganks, both can safe your team, stop ultis etc...
For AD@bot.-- dont play AD carry at bot unless you got a premade support.. picking support is way better for yourself and the team, since no one else will do it (in low elo)
5.) Jungle
Do not play jungle before you can play well at either mid or top and know most of the viable champions there. without the proper lane knowledge you cannot gank or even feed on ganks. You need to understand whats going on in the lanes and figure out good timings for ganks. Playing a jungler is really easy once you know this.
My main is mid, when i jungle ~90% of my ganks at mid result in a kill or flash burn. Since i cant play top and dont know the champs there well, my gank results are way lower ( maybe about 40% or less ).
So my final advice: Get ~5 champions for one (your main) role and add a second role with about 2 champions. Learn those roles and champions.
Learn to grab any advantage possible. When i play on my lvl 15 account i usually end up with 30 + kills. This allows me to fight 1v5 until my team decides to help me. You need to learn how to get every kill you can, force your lane opponent back every time its possible and go gank other lanes to help your teammates
If you are good at this, you can keep a (bad) lane opponents 3 -5 levels behind you, keep the jungler busy/dead,. so he cant gank other lanes but yours and assist you team on one or both other lanes, to prevent your team from feeding or getting them fed. Learn how to snowball and you can carry the game for your team (this works best on mid, since you can gank both top and bot lane).
*edit*
On July 02 2012 19:31 Amui wrote:
Also, at elo's where you still occasionally don't have a jungler, do NOT ever play support. When you compete for CS with another laner, it's more likely that 2 of you will hit 80% CS, and it's a whole lot better than one person hitting 50%.
This is the worst possible advice ever. fighting for last hits in a lane, makes you miss more of them, reduces your and your team mates practice effects (you try to hit as early as possible to not lose the last hit and therefore miss it). The player who got fed can last hit way better, and the lane will be pushed all game long which makes it impossible to get kills. You will even see more players tower diving and feeding if you try to take their last hits simply because the lane is pushed and the player is angry at you and tries to kill something.
No idea how anyone can give that kind of advice.
Playing support is WAY better, since support champions do not need gold to be useful and can easily get a bad AD carry fed against other bad players. If your AD carry doesnt try to last hit, you can still grab those, that he cant get (but only those, NEVER try to take last hits he is trying to get), and help him with last hitting under the tower. Assist him by telling him to not push the lane only go for last hits. As i said before .. dont pick soraka as support, pick a support that can carry the AD until he can carry the game.
And one simple example to show how bad this advice is: When i play ryze in low level, i can 1v5 the opponents team...the reason for this is.. each of them got low CS, which means none of them has armor penetration AND damage. or AP AND magic penetration. This means, two players with 30 cs each are not as strong as one player with 50. If the gold is equally distributed none of them will deal any real damage, and those that deal a little damage have no survivability, same as those that are tanky, deal zero damage to you and can be ignored. (Note that this is for low elo only)Last edit: 2012-07-02 20:28:51 |
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| Sponkz Denmark. July 02 2012 22:05. Posts 796 | Profile # |
On July 02 2012 20:09 JustAGame wrote:
4.) Bot
Yes support is annoying when your ad is bad.. This is the way it goes.. In the end you will realize that it doesnt matter, since if you are the AD and the bad player is the support, you cant do anything. As a support you can get a noob fed by being very good, as the AD you are just useless without a good support player.
(The worst i have seen so far was a soraka running into the lane spamming starfall until she died, leaving me 1v2 in a pushed lane with fed opponents, which is simply impossible to win)
Soraka is one of the worst support champions. Healing your team is pointless when you cant even heal the damage done by one hit. Soraka has no real useful skill besides the silence which only works well against champions with channeling ults like malzahar, warwick and katarina. Howevery, each of those can also be interrupted by any other stun, making soraka one of the worst support champs.
the good ones are janna (slow, shield, displacement from ult, "stun" from Q), leona (stun stun stun)
both can stop ganks, both can safe your team, stop ultis etc...
Soraka is really good at lower elo's, because generally people will be taking alot more stupid damage, making her healing alot more potent. You're making it sound like a global heal is bad, which is very untrue.
Also to the OP, unless you're good at playing support (in which, from your writing i assume you aren't), just generally stick to the "i'm last pick, gotta play support" and avoid it as much as possible. However if you're in one of those situations, don't mind if your AD carry is shitty at last hitting. Force a killing lane; pick up taric, blitzcrank, leona and just grasp every opportunity to go for a kill. Assuming equal skill of both AD carries, you will come out ahead if your AD is fed, despite poor mechanical skills. |
| | If something's hard to do, it's not worth doing |
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| Sufficiency Canada. July 02 2012 22:22. Posts 7278 | Profile Blog # |
| I find playing support the most rage-inducing thing to do in soloQ. There is nothing worse than partnering up with a carry who is clearly less skilled than I am. This is the only thing I rage at on LoL. |
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| JustAGame Germany. July 03 2012 01:30. Posts 139 | Profile # |
On July 02 2012 22:05 Sponkz wrote:
Soraka is really good at lower elo's, because generally people will be taking alot more stupid damage, making her healing alot more potent. You're making it sound like a global heal is bad, which is very untrue.
Also to the OP, unless you're good at playing support (in which, from your writing i assume you aren't), just generally stick to the "i'm last pick, gotta play support" and avoid it as much as possible. However if you're in one of those situations, don't mind if your AD carry is shitty at last hitting. Force a killing lane; pick up taric, blitzcrank, leona and just grasp every opportunity to go for a kill. Assuming equal skill of both AD carries, you will come out ahead if your AD is fed, despite poor mechanical skills.
Actually soraka might look good on low elo since as you say people take damage all day and play really bad.. BUT..
Soraka is not the kind of support that allows you to be any useful yourself, instead of harassing the opponent you give mana to your carry so he can harass.. you heal him so he can harass.. same for teamfights.. you dont stun, you dont do anything besides giving mana to those that can do something.
With a shitty carry on your lane soraka is totally useless both early and late game. I did tons of games with soraka, everytime my carry was bad, the lane was lost without a chance.
However.. when i play leona or janna i can harass my opponents, get my carry fed while i am still useful late game for CC and/or tank. Soraka gives your laning partner the feeling of being alone on the lane since you are ultra passive.
Playing support is the first step to improve at the game since you learn ganking ways, dragon/baron timings, ward positions and you got time to focus on your enemy in lane instead of the last hitting, you can learn a lot about the game there.
Players that cant play support, cant play any other role well. The player who writes "i cant play support" will feed his lane for sure. |
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| nmbr United States. July 03 2012 01:36. Posts 40 | Profile # |
| As a low level player, I can carry games as support Lulu. Doesn't even bother me when Ashe can't last hit, it just means I get my own items faster. Turn bitches into squirrels and snatch your idiot team mates out of the jaws of death. I find it's much harder to make use of incedental CS w/ Soraka. Lulu also rewards clean mechanics and calm awareness in team fights - playing her has made me better at the game. Last edit: 2012-07-03 01:43:32 |
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| barbsq United States. July 03 2012 04:36. Posts 3039 | Profile # |
On July 03 2012 01:30 JustAGame wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 22:05 Sponkz wrote:
Soraka is really good at lower elo's, because generally people will be taking alot more stupid damage, making her healing alot more potent. You're making it sound like a global heal is bad, which is very untrue.
Also to the OP, unless you're good at playing support (in which, from your writing i assume you aren't), just generally stick to the "i'm last pick, gotta play support" and avoid it as much as possible. However if you're in one of those situations, don't mind if your AD carry is shitty at last hitting. Force a killing lane; pick up taric, blitzcrank, leona and just grasp every opportunity to go for a kill. Assuming equal skill of both AD carries, you will come out ahead if your AD is fed, despite poor mechanical skills.
Actually soraka might look good on low elo since as you say people take damage all day and play really bad.. BUT.. Soraka is not the kind of support that allows you to be any useful yourself, instead of harassing the opponent you give mana to your carry so he can harass.. you heal him so he can harass.. same for teamfights.. you dont stun, you dont do anything besides giving mana to those that can do something. With a shitty carry on your lane soraka is totally useless both early and late game. I did tons of games with soraka, everytime my carry was bad, the lane was lost without a chance. However.. when i play leona or janna i can harass my opponents, get my carry fed while i am still useful late game for CC and/or tank. Soraka gives your laning partner the feeling of being alone on the lane since you are ultra passive.
this is just... so wrong, on so many levels. Soraka is easily one of the more potent supports, and it just seems to me that you're just not playing her effectively. Soraka has plenty of tools for lane aggression, and due to her nutso free armor and mres, makes trades really difficult for her opponents. Late game, she is also quite potent as either a cdr ap bruiser, or as a burst healer. You are free to dislike soraka as you please, but it is simply wrong to say that she is a bad support in any way, shape or form.
Playing support is the first step to improve at the game since you learn ganking ways, dragon/baron timings, ward positions and you got time to focus on your enemy in lane instead of the last hitting, you can learn a lot about the game there.
I think you mean jungler? Because what you're describing is exactly what a jungler does.
Players that cant play support, cant play any other role well. The player who writes "i cant play support" will feed his lane for sure.
I don't even know what to say to this, but it's not even remotely true o.O |
| | Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻ |
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| Amui Canada. July 03 2012 04:57. Posts 3128 | Profile Blog # |
On July 02 2012 19:31 Amui wrote:
Also, at elo's where you still occasionally don't have a jungler, do NOT ever play support. When you compete for CS with another laner, it's more likely that 2 of you will hit 80% CS, and it's a whole lot better than one person hitting 50%.
This is the worst possible advice ever. fighting for last hits in a lane, makes you miss more of them, reduces your and your team mates practice effects (you try to hit as early as possible to not lose the last hit and therefore miss it). The player who got fed can last hit way better, and the lane will be pushed all game long which makes it impossible to get kills. You will even see more players tower diving and feeding if you try to take their last hits simply because the lane is pushed and the player is angry at you and tries to kill something.
No idea how anyone can give that kind of advice.
Playing support is WAY better, since support champions do not need gold to be useful and can easily get a bad AD carry fed against other bad players. If your AD carry doesnt try to last hit, you can still grab those, that he cant get (but only those, NEVER try to take last hits he is trying to get), and help him with last hitting under the tower. Assist him by telling him to not push the lane only go for last hits. As i said before .. dont pick soraka as support, pick a support that can carry the AD until he can carry the game.
And one simple example to show how bad this advice is: When i play ryze in low level, i can 1v5 the opponents team...the reason for this is.. each of them got low CS, which means none of them has armor penetration AND damage. or AP AND magic penetration. This means, two players with 30 cs each are not as strong as one player with 50. If the gold is equally distributed none of them will deal any real damage, and those that deal a little damage have no survivability, same as those that are tanky, deal zero damage to you and can be ignored. (Note that this is for low elo only)
There's a very good reason I say this. Your opponents will likely be as bad at last hitting as you, and as a result, you won't push the lane significantly competing for CS. Also, with 2 people getting 80%, it's VERY likely that one of them will be better than the other. As a result you could have a 45% and a 35%. Not much worse than one person at 50%, and the guy with 35% is very likely going to be way stronger.
When I play bot games to practice new champions, I don't have problems hitting 4-5/6 on most champions where the AD disparity between my partner isn't huge. It is very possible to compete for CS, yet outplay your lane partner to a significant degree. Also two people are most likely going to hit 80% of CS if they both go for it. My example was a 50/80, not 50/60. Obviously this changes at higher elo's, but when everybody sucks at last hitting, it's much better to compete than to hope your partner is decent. |
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| overt United States. July 03 2012 05:10. Posts 3974 | Profile Blog # |
On July 02 2012 20:09 JustAGame wrote:
4.) Bot
Yes support is annoying when your ad is bad.. This is the way it goes.. In the end you will realize that it doesnt matter, since if you are the AD and the bad player is the support, you cant do anything. As a support you can get a noob fed by being very good, as the AD you are just useless without a good support player.
(The worst i have seen so far was a soraka running into the lane spamming starfall until she died, leaving me 1v2 in a pushed lane with fed opponents, which is simply impossible to win)
Soraka is one of the worst support champions. Healing your team is pointless when you cant even heal the damage done by one hit. Soraka has no real useful skill besides the silence which only works well against champions with channeling ults like malzahar, warwick and katarina. Howevery, each of those can also be interrupted by any other stun, making soraka one of the worst support champs.
the good ones are janna (slow, shield, displacement from ult, "stun" from Q), leona (stun stun stun)
both can stop ganks, both can safe your team, stop ultis etc...
Soraka is crazy good in duo queue too. Honestly as long as you know that your AD carry isn't retarded Soraka is just as good, if not better, than any other support. I think that if you're solo queue you could make an argument that like Alistar or Leona or Taric support is better but if you're in any sort of organized play like a duo queue or if your AD carry simply isn't an idiot Soraka is incredibly good.
Also, Soraka's W is much stronger because of the armor gained rather than the heal. It's why a good Soraka will heal your carry at the start of a fight because 25-105 bonus armor is fucking nuts in lane phase. Literally no one can trade with you if you have Soraka. Throw in the fact that you have a silence and it makes engaging on you very difficult. Assuming you're good at Soraka and your AD carry knows what they're doing Soraka is still #1 support in the game. At least during lane phase that is.
edit:
quoted the wrong personLast edit: 2012-07-03 05:38:15 |
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| emperorchampion Canada. July 03 2012 05:41. Posts 4122 | Profile Blog # |
Support Alistar! I find that as long as my AD partner is moderately competent it's really easy to win the lane. Plus you can roam mid and pick up a few kills there as well npnp.
I think Alistar is a really good champ to learn in general: great support, great jungle and he's free if you like their youtube page. |
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| Takkara United States. July 03 2012 07:24. Posts 1439 | Profile Blog # |
I have to echo the people who say that Soraka is amazing at low Elo. I love to joke with my friends that my Soraka is "S-Class" just because I have by far the highest win percentage with her of all my characters, and I can measure my exact contribution to each game. There's fun things you can do if your lane isn't being aggressive, like using Wish to leech assists off ganks in other lanes. Her silence is great at shutting down certain types of obvious kill lane harassment. If your carry gets hooked by Blitz or Naut or Leona, there's no carry (outside of Janna maybe with her ultimate) that is as good as Soraka on saving your lane mate.
Plus, late game, all you're looking for is one good teamfight. You get in there, clutch heal on the focused team member, wish the whole team, silence a key opponent from making a critical play, and then spam your Q. You'll know when you just had the key team fight. It happens at least once every game. Soraka is really good at carrying these low level team fights. Really the only times my teams lose with Soraka are just mass-feed games or games where I get super-focused every fight so that I can't use my heals effectively (or at all). |
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| ZERG_RUSSIAN July 06 2012 13:13. Posts 5089 | Profile Blog # |
| Learn Chogath top, it's fun and won't auto-lose if you end up going 1v2. |
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| arb Noobville. July 06 2012 13:17. Posts 11081 | Profile Blog # |
I'd play Udyr if you're really wanting to learn the jungle, one of the easiest farm heroes, and once you get ganking with him down you'll be able to gank with any other jungle with no trouble.
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| Morfildur Germany. July 06 2012 17:22. Posts 3488 | Profile Blog # |
On July 03 2012 07:24 Takkara wrote:
I have to echo the people who say that Soraka is amazing at low Elo. I love to joke with my friends that my Soraka is "S-Class" just because I have by far the highest win percentage with her of all my characters, and I can measure my exact contribution to each game. There's fun things you can do if your lane isn't being aggressive, like using Wish to leech assists off ganks in other lanes. Her silence is great at shutting down certain types of obvious kill lane harassment. If your carry gets hooked by Blitz or Naut or Leona, there's no carry (outside of Janna maybe with her ultimate) that is as good as Soraka on saving your lane mate.
Plus, late game, all you're looking for is one good teamfight. You get in there, clutch heal on the focused team member, wish the whole team, silence a key opponent from making a critical play, and then spam your Q. You'll know when you just had the key team fight. It happens at least once every game. Soraka is really good at carrying these low level team fights. Really the only times my teams lose with Soraka are just mass-feed games or games where I get super-focused every fight so that I can't use my heals effectively (or at all).
I agree, i basically won teamfights with soraka that were in a horrible position, like 4v5 under enemy tower, and the only reason we won was because of the heals, silences and sorakas ult. I would go so far as to say that sorakas heal is actually the bonus, the silence is the actual key skill.
In lane, when you see the taric stun going off on your carry and you immediately silence for example the opponents graves or ez, you suddenly prevented a ton of damage with a free skill. For teamfights, think of the darius that is moving in on your carry, suddenly he can't pull your carry nor use his AoE skill, making him almost useless for 2 seconds, which is a huge amount of damage that you prevented. Then there is Nunus ult, assassins like LeBlanc/Kassadin, close range AP ults like kennen or morgana, the options are almost infinite.
I find one good silence is worth as much as your ult in a teamfight... and it even has a shorter cooldown.
However, as far as general supporting with any champion in low elo goes, it's really hit and miss. Yes, you can win teamfights and save other people all game long but if they are just bad, you can't win the game. You can only prevent your ad carry from losing the lane, making him win the lane is a lot trickier. I had my fair share of 20-minute-10-cs carries and i usually ended up giving up the lane and went to help win the other lanes by roaming around, placing wards everywhere and ganking the other lanes (yes, really, a support soraka gank can be quite dangerous since silence prevents flash).
That might not be the best strategy but if you win 2 lanes and lose that one, it might still be better than winning maybe one of the other lanes and 2 lanes lose.
On Topic, if you want to learn to play LoL, there are a lot of factors you have to learn to be able to rise in ELO:
1. Last hit:
With the champions you pick, get that last hitting down. For melee characters and ad carries it's usually no problem but it gets really tricky with different ap carries, for example champions like karthus have a really slow animation while champions like LeBlanc almost instantly shoot. Learn to get your farm without using any abilities other than to harass, don't waste mana on last hitting. My personal goal is 10 per minute excluding the first 2 minutes, for example at minute 12 i aim for 100 cs. I'm not even close to it but since you theoretically can get 12.67 per minute, it is a good rule of thumb that is easy to calculate and if you can reach it consistently, you should have other problems to worry about.
2. Farming in the teamfight phase:
If it gets into the teamfight phase, for example the tower on your or their side is down and both you and your opponent start to roam, you have to find the right moment to safely farm your lane. You should not push past the half way line unless you know you are safe, that means if you clear your lane and the opponent is not in the lane, you will often push the lane automatically. Farm slowly and once you are past the half way line, get back to the team or kill some jungle creeps and wait until there is a wave of enemy creeps that built momentum and is moving closer to the half way line again. That allows you to quickly get a lot of CS without getting into an area where you can be ganked easily.
As AD carry, you are allowed to stay away from the team for longer to get more CS, don't listen to your team screaming "ad noob, never in teamfights". Your #1 goal is to get as much farm as possible, if you miss a teamfight for that, well, those noobs shouldn't have initiated then. On the opposite side as the tank you should make CS excursions as short as possible and if you see your ad moving towards the same creeps, let him take those. As jungler you should spend most of your time in the jungle at all times but don't complain about the ad taking some camps in the mid- to lategame and don't miss teamfights. If your team is posturing near your mid tower, go kill those wraith while you are waiting for them to make their move.
3. Focus in team fights:
This is really important and can make or break the game. You can be a solo superstar but if you mess up teamfights, you can lose your team the game.
AP/AD carry:
Don't listen to your team screaming "focus graves/cait/morgana/brand/etc.", if you are a carry, your first goal is to not die and shoot as much as possible. Getting close to the opponents carry means that you will be in melee range of all their champions... you don't want that. Take the softest target you can safely reach, for example the opponents bruiser or such and shoot at it while kiting (basically stutterstepping) away from it. When it's dead, repeat the same with the next softest target. Yeah, your team will yell at you for not shooting at the opponents ad carry but don't listen to them.
Judge for yourself the danger of the opponents near to you (for example you can usually ignore some low damage tanks that are just a nuisance), if there is anyone who could really hurt you, kill him.
As AP carry you usually are more bursty, so if you can get your initial burst off on their carries safely, do it, but it's better to get 2 combos off by staying at a distance and just kill a bruiser than to get one combo off, die and get their carry to 25% health.
Bruiser:
You have 2 goals in team fights:
#1: Protect your carry
#2: Punch ALL THE THINGS (the softer, the better)
If your carry is under attack by enemy bruisers, attack those so your carry can kill them faster (called peeling). If your carry is only getting distracted by some low damage tank, put the hurt on the opposing carries and force them out of the fight or if possible kill them. Your job is not to kill though, it's to weaken everyone so your carry can get that pentakill. Try not to die though.
Tank:
You will usually initiate the teamfight, which includes going in and punching the opponents carry so he is distracted, panics and runs away screaming like a little girl. If the enemy team focusses you: great. If they don't, well, be more annoying. Use your CC to really get on their nerves and prevent the enemy carries from doing their job.
Support:
Use your heal and cc to protect your carry. If you can heal the tank without sacrificing the carry, great, do it. If you have to decide, save the carry. Noone cares about tanks, they are just walking punching bags anyways. Each support is slightly different in battles, for example soraka has the powerful silence while janna can slow melee champions from ever reaching your carry and alistar just goes in, pulverizes and if anyone gets close to the carry he just headbutts him away, it really depends on the actual champion.
Now if only i could follow my own guidelines :-/
Also: I would recommend to pick 2-3 lanes and for each a selection of 3 champions. From there slowly expand your roster.Last edit: 2012-07-06 17:23:39 |
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