|
Hey guys, I'm replacing for EchelonTee. Still working on reading the thread: I've given it a rough skim so far, will be able to give it a proper read sometime tomorrow.
Current thoughts: I want to sheep sandroba and WBG this game. Are nukes simply vig shots that resolve at end of cycle? And blocks are lock-on actions (can't switch targets)? Cause BH's block makes no sense, and he claimed to have one and used it on Chez's troll nuke.
Hopefully by tomorrow afternoon I'll have caught up and able to comment on syllo, layabout etc.
|
On July 17 2012 22:44 Palmar wrote: The main characteristic of a mafia player in this game is not going to be pushing an agenda or scheming, but much rather complete focus on surviving on their own. This is exactly what the random lynch plays out on, the fear of getting killed as a player. I've been thinking about the setup and I think Palmar nails it here. Basically everyone beside 3 CEOs are uninformed majority, and even they only know a fraction of their whole team. Thus all scum will be scared of pushing / lynching / hitting each other ala shooting GGQ in sleeper II, and so more than anything they will be focusing on survival.
BH fits this mold. WBG explains here.
##Vote: BlazingHand
|
Still mulling over this austin business, because it doesn't make much sense from either alignment:
Because for scum austin to boldly go against what pseudo confirmed town sandroba, he would have to have some payoff - why bother bringing so much attention to yourself? The way he focuses on sandroba's claim does look like paranoid conspiracy theorist - I cohosted LV and if memory serves he was making really elaborate (read totally wacky) speculations.
Unless it was an order from a higher up (which is hard to swallow since it means someone else who knows more decided this plan of action was worth it), I'm seeing a paranoid town.
|
On July 18 2012 10:35 Probulous wrote: @SloOsh, you still around?
Same to Katina, Mattchew and Chez? I'm online and catching up on this new gonzaw business as we speak. I'm kind of entertaining guests at the same time so I won't be able to stick with everything until the lynch as I would usually prefer to do.
|
I've been trying to give an honest go at it and the difficulty I'm encountering in trying to understand gonzaw is bleh.
It just seems like he has no focus at all. He is aware that he is strapped for time, yet half of it seems spent on telling us how much he doesn't have time and how the thread doesn't make sense. There are many, many thoughts, but very few conclusions, and the ones he notes multiple reservations in the same post
I think gonzaw makes a good lynch also. ##Unvote Blazinghand ##Vote gonzaw
Won't be able to comment extensively but will try checking up on thread till deadline.
|
!!!
Can't let no lynch happen.
##Unvote ##Vote BH
|
Still need to read up past day post & Foolishness; hopefully will get that done during my lunch break.
We know that there is indeed a politician type role in the game. It's mafia aligned because it happened when we were trying to secure the lynch on BH, and shifting it to gonzaw is essentially shifting it to a no-lynch. It is alignment null on the person it was used on (Mattchew), but I find his response to it wrong (for possibly thinking it could be town originated), surprisingly pointed out by Chezinu. I think it may possibly be a ninja vote type thing (switch his own vote without announcement).
Furthermore, Kurumi's nuke was real. I find that very alarming that mafia were given KP. Probably the only minion ability of that power though for balance's sake, and probably indicative of many blues. Should kill him tonight so thread won't be so cluttered.
|
Thoughts on Foolishness barring the case he posted while I've been typing this up, will be catching up on that soon: From what I glean from his filter, he has been pretty straightforward. His cases seem heavily based on meta as do many of the vets' reads on each other, so I'm not able to follow that part, but the non-meta portions seem ok. It could be that I underestimate exactly what he should be capable of since I've never really played with him (barring Liar Game but I replaced into that and he died early), but his large BM case should give a clear indication of what he has been doing with his time.
With WBG's role flip, I'm inclined to think that we do indeed have vigs or some sort of KP and that mafia have some sort of protection / extra life roles. Because the only time I can envision his pardon ability being used is when mafia hold a large portion or even the majority of votes, and enough communication has been run through so they can consolidate on a target. The lynch is traditionally town's primary weapon against scum. If they lose that and are in / approaching minority, this role can help prevent the lynch weapon going into scum hands, allowing a swing with the aid of blue KP.
Apparently someone has stolen Meapak_Ziphh's vote this cycle, which makes little sense when it is clear that consensus is that we all lynch Kurumi as soon as possible. Meapak could you clarify if this was at day cycle or sometime during the day? Because Matt's was stolen halfway and a difference in steal time could indicate separate powers. I'm sure Matt's stealer is scum - it switched against the consolidation. Meapak's stealer could be town who thinks Meapak is scum.
I still think it could be a ninja vote thing (ninja toy in Ace's death factory 2 is what is coming to mind) but I'll need to do more filtering.
And of course, ##Vote: Kurumi
|
On July 19 2012 13:45 Probulous wrote:slOosh, nice to see you around. Just a clarification, Matt's vote actually ended up on BH. It was switched back right before the deadline. Ah - upon review it seems like it switched to Blazinghand when we were consolidating and for some reason switched back to gonzaw at the end of the day, which was why it confused me. I retract my scum stealer thought - it could very well be town stealer stealing from someone who they think is scum / anyone to secure lynch. Putting it back makes no sense though, but we now know it can be switched around multiple times within the cycle.
Foolishness' case on Bill Murray is once again meta heavy (just a personal aversion to it, not an accusation / whatever). If indeed it is valid (I can only see the quotes he put up, I don't have time to go through all of BM's games) then it's looking pretty solid in the sense that I do see a different style of posting more akin to mafia style (short burst) rather than town style (long drawn out). I've played 1 or 2 games with BM and all I remember is that I started ignoring him like 2 posts in (he ended up mafia), and I've done the same this game too. Yet it boils down to a case on BM - I was hoping for something on ... a player of different stature than BM.
|
On July 20 2012 09:30 Probulous wrote: @slOosh
You've been in game a while now. I value your opinion ever since that god aweful mini, so what are your reads? So far your filter is just discussing other people's ideas. Any of your own? I've been focusing my attentions surrounding the "vet" players that I'm somewhat familiar with (basically people who played in liar game). I'm not sure who but someone said during D1 that many of these vets you can just leave alone and see if they produce results, because "if vet A is town, then his town play should be able to find and lynch scum, and since he hasn't done that he must be scum". But since bussing can be unintentional and quite easy to do, there really isn't such a way to evaluate reads on vets merely on their performance. We have obvious scum lined up for the lynch so we have room for discussion / gathering reads, and with the limited scum KP we can't just sit on the "we'll deal with them if they are alive D3" heuristic.
On Foolishness: many people (including sandroba!) think he is scum and I'm not seeing it. I'd have preferred if focused his energies on someone other than BM (opposed to other vets I would like better reads on such as Palmar, syllogism), but that's alignment null. So I've looked into BM to determine legitimacy of his read, which I find myself agreeing with and I'm surprised that BM has been so easily dismissed because people are hunting execs, because 1) mafia is mafia, so dismissing it purely on "hunt execs" makes no sense, and 2) to think an exec couldn't pretend to own his minion's power is a dangerous oversight. I think BM is trolling mafia as I don't see any town interest in his posts, opposed to Chezinu who is trolling but has a few posts in which he shows critical thought / town insights.
Rastaban's defense of Kurumi is really poor:
On July 19 2012 22:59 rastaban wrote: First it seems that the only day or night KP is a single Nuke, and guess who has that, Kurumi. DO you really think that it would be given to scum in this setup and not town?
Second, the whole case against him is how he responded to the sandroba text, and while mafia would have went with it, guess what I think a town might would have as well. It is easy for me to say I would have told town, but would I have, what if it as a mason group, etc... I can see someone knowing they were town going along with it for the moment.
Third we really want to hit Scum leaders, So I think Kurumi deserves a reprieve and we start judging based on actions and not that he went along with a received PM. If he keeps up scummy then yes lets kill him, otherwise lets actually go for a lynch today instead of mindlessly trying to kill K.
I find it an unnatural way of thinking, as if he is looking for excuses to defend him. We don't know if there is more KP or not as there could be several explanations of the missing KP, second point is wholly based on a hypothetical mason group that doesn't make sense, and third is contradictory, for the reason we are lynching him is his actions; the response to sandroba's PM. Yet not only that the bulk of the post is trying to redirect the lynch onto layabout, rather than trying to convince everyone how "mindless" they are and that Kurumi is town.
Zealos's "failure to read" simply shows scum unable to weasel out of sandroba's traps.
|
Concerning Bill Murray:
On July 20 2012 18:23 Bill Murray wrote:SLOOSH WROTE: Show nested quote +On Foolishness: many people (including sandroba!) think he is scum and I'm not seeing it. I'd have preferred if focused his energies on someone other than BM (opposed to other vets I would like better reads on such as Palmar, syllogism), but that's alignment null. So I've looked into BM to determine legitimacy of his read, which I find myself agreeing with and I'm surprised that BM has been so easily dismissed because people are hunting execs, because 1) mafia is mafia, so dismissing it purely on "hunt execs" makes no sense, and 2) to think an exec couldn't pretend to own his minion's power is a dangerous oversight. I think BM is trolling mafia as I don't see any town interest in his posts, opposed to Chezinu who is trolling but has a few posts in which he shows critical thought / town insights. Chezinu is town power role I am also town power role your reads are shit here Chezinu has been spouting a lot of nonsense, and the fact BM expects me to take such claims as serious and valid makes no sense, nor does it logically follow that my reads are flawed due to this. I merely said that a few posts of his seem insightful, but to take every post of his seriously is nonsense. BM has shown that he has power / contact with someone with the power.Yet the logical conclusion isn't that these people are cleared - there are minions who can have powers or execs who can disguise themselves with these said powers. BM is demeaning my reads on nonexistent grounds.
On July 20 2012 18:40 Bill Murray wrote: ANYWAYS. I'm not going to finish reading the thread. It's a bunch of herp-derp like Katina said. Foolishness is mafia, and I have reads on a few more. I am not going to delve into it.
I am feeling like Probulous isn't a higher-up-executive, and I question the read, which means I agree with the need for a reaction test there.
Chezinu - high up scum, dawg VE - I feel he is way, way, way better at scumhunting as town. Scum. Foolishness - tunneling too much, and engaging in banter = scum Sandroba - When Kurumi flips town (my gut is telling me this) = obv scum we lynch Marvellosity - interaction with Sandroba makes me believe he is scum Kurumi - low level scum that is getting bussed by Chezini and Sandroba
town: BM Katina Layabout Gonzaw Probulous Zealos - he's either scum of a village idiot. I'm leaning village idiot. He's somebody scum messaged to look bad.
OMG BM, an incomplete list? Where does HiroPro rank in this? Well, I just don't know, and I don't want clutter, yo. I'm not unvoting Kurumi, I feel like Sandroba and Chezinu probably wouldn't gambit
I'm flip-flopping on chezinu, because I just re-read the Kurumi-Sandroba thing.
@ Kurumi, Chezinu and Sandroba contacted you? What is your side of the story/incident?
##unvote Kurumi ##vote Chezinu
Chezinu is being too crazy and illogical for his town game Chezinu and Sandroba are scum if Kurumi isn't We can't afford to lynch town here In the same post there are glaring contradictions. First is the choice of lynch candidate. The whole game BM has expressed that he feels Foolishness is his #1 suspect and read. He says at the top of his post that he still believes this. So then why not him? Why Chezinu? According to his prior post he says "Chezinu is town power role", yet now he is scum exec? He is pushing Chezinu on the exact same grounds that he defended himself:
On July 19 2012 20:20 Bill Murray wrote: but, im proven to not be an executive, now im either 1) shitty low level/totem pole mafia 2) a blue/green (i consider it a green, because i have no real abilities other than 2 votes potentially) i added the potentially, because I can probably be roleblocked Next is how he considers Kurumi both town and scum at the same time. He calls him a low level bus, but at the same time a town that we cannot afford to lynch. He read the Kurumi-Sandroba thing, and claims that to be source of read change. Again, how does Chezinu get dragged into this? Where is the connection? BM is setting up future lynches and blame: he says if Kurumi flips town and then we should lynch sandroba and Chezinu yet he calls him low level scum, giving him an out should he not gain support for taking the lynch off, and throws doubt and suspicions on sandroba and Chezinu by saying if Kurumi flips scum that it is a bus.
Kurumi flip town -> sandroba & Chezinu are scum. Kurumi flip scum -> sandroba & Chezinu are scum. He is setting up the next D3 lynch on non existent connections. Follow this up:
On July 20 2012 22:58 Bill Murray wrote: im still ok with checking kurumi.. i dont really want to lynch sandroba... i just feel like chezinu's alignment (say hes CEO) will flip a lot of people (VE confirmed scum if chez has no power) + sandroba would be scum if chez is scum 100%
if chez flips town then we def. go ahead with kurumi, and sandroba is 100% clear town afaik and can tell Again more lynch trains. Lynch Chez. If town lynch Kurumi. If scum lynch sand. Setting up lynches without proper reasoning. Notice that in all of this, his confident read of "Foolishness is mafia" is nowhere to be found. Content with letting him live 2 more cycles?
Hiro, his latest post that was written while I was typing inspires more confidence in my read. Even if he is bussing scum, he is catching scum, and we have too many scum too little KP so no reason to go after him unless you are reasonably certain he is exec status.
|
Does Chezinu actually have confirmed powers or not? I've started off ok ignoring him but he has begun to seriously hamper thread legibility.
|
Awesome on two counts!
I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. As you know I've been spending a majority of my time figuring him out and was wavering because he had a good case on BM which I agree with, yet chose to do exactly that a case on BM. I was torn on trying to figure out meta and trusting people's reads, but VE's grilling brought out cold hard, in-thread contradictions that I understand and trust.
Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop:
On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote: Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role?
On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote: I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role? The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so... I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx.
Lastly, I think that the traitorous employee should claim. As I understand it it's like a self-aware miller who wins with town but numbers count with scum. Since mafia have to kill all town they are torn having a "confirmed town" alive and wasting their 1 KP on a useless kill (doesn't count to their wincon), and have lost their means of instantly killing him, plus the possible additional benefits of seeing scum strategies and redacted knowledge through outed PMs can be huge.
|
Couldn't believe I'd pick up such an idea from Chezinu so I did some digging.
On July 21 2012 02:30 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +Kill sand if you want to know the truth... there be some communicahtions that are goingz about... these messages takes a lots of the times to get to where they be the be going... so you beetter bees the living when you the gets this! or your gonna have to the protect the Director of the Communication! Is the message I received. I received it shortly after guessing that Chez is a message sender and he confirmed sending it to me. Here's what I think should happen. IMO Sandroba should send me a message to confirm that he can (can we agree that it's probable that scum aren't going to "fall" for his shenannies anymore if he's town?). If Sandroba is unable to send me a message, then he's an Executive and has been bussing his department. If he IS able, then tomorrow we figure out which of Sandroba/Chezinu is scum. Because two people having that power on town side seems ridiculously unfair to scum, I think that would make one of them scum. Does anyone disagree with this? I'm guessing that's where I got it from if anything. Still rereading stuff in light of flips. So much stuff to go through.
|
Quick post before I can properly play at night:
On July 22 2012 18:34 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote: Awesome on two counts!
I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. As you know I've been spending a majority of my time figuring him out and was wavering because he had a good case on BM which I agree with, yet chose to do exactly that a case on BM. I was torn on trying to figure out meta and trusting people's reads, but VE's grilling brought out cold hard, in-thread contradictions that I understand and trust.
How is that delayed? I can only shoot when no mafia have died for 1.5 cycles, so basically I can only start shooting night 2. Didn't bother clarifying beyond "delayed" because it's 1 shot and it went off, apologies if I worded it ambiguously.
I explained my shot because it was the natural thing to do?
|
On July 23 2012 09:43 Probulous wrote:slOosh doesn't mention Foolishness at all until after the Day 1 lynch and then only comments on him. It's weird because he never discusses other cases or other targets. Anyway, his Night 1 opinion was clear. Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 11:46 slOosh wrote: On Foolishness: many people (including sandroba!) think he is scum and I'm not seeing it. I'd have preferred if focused his energies on someone other than BM (opposed to other vets I would like better reads on such as Palmar, syllogism), but that's alignment null. So I've looked into BM to determine legitimacy of his read, which I find myself agreeing with and I'm surprised that BM has been so easily dismissed because people are hunting execs, because 1) mafia is mafia, so dismissing it purely on "hunt execs" makes no sense, and 2) to think an exec couldn't pretend to own his minion's power is a dangerous oversight. I think BM is trolling mafia as I don't see any town interest in his posts, opposed to Chezinu who is trolling but has a few posts in which he shows critical thought / town insights. So here he has a townish read on Fool who he then follows with his case on BM ( Klicky). So nothing here indicating suspicion of Foolishness at all. Strangely he say Chez is trolling (excuse to ignore) but in a townie way. Ok, maybe that is a throw away line but then Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 01:45 slOosh wrote: Chezinu has been spouting a lot of nonsense, and the fact BM expects me to take such claims as serious and valid makes no sense, nor does it logically follow that my reads are flawed due to this. I merely said that a few posts of his seem insightful, but to take every post of his seriously is nonsense. Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 15:36 slOosh wrote: Does Chezinu actually have confirmed powers or not? I've started off ok ignoring him but he has begun to seriously hamper thread legibility. Which just makes people even less likely to read Chez. If you think Chez is town, why make excuses not to read his filter? Then comes this in his claim Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote: Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? How is this information useful to town? Knowing my entire role is only beneficial to mafia. Even if my role name suggests a mafia role, the fact that I have proven I have a role that has been useful to town should make it clear I am not mafia. Why is outing a role name not in town's benefit? I can tell you that my role name sounds like a mafia role but Chez took the time to examine my filter, to question me and to evaluate whether I am mafia based on my play. The fact that I think he is town because he didn't out me should be enough. Especially for someone who thinks Chez is town. Note slOosh is not calling Chez scum but he is insinuating that I shouldn't trust him. I also find his statement that minions knowing blue roles is not useful for scum completely out of place. Correct me if I am wrong but a CEO who gets a list full of blues is going to be happier than if it was full of greens. Here is some more muck throwing at Chez Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 15:04 slOosh wrote: Couldn't believe I'd pick up such an idea from Chezinu so I did some digging. So slOosh - Why is it that despite never mentioning anything negative about Foolishness AND agreeing with his case on BM you apparently shot him? Your point about VE arguing with Foolishness makes little sense because Bugs argued with Foolishness on night 1 but you completely ignored that.
- Why, despite thinking Chez is townie, do all your mentions of him discredit his posts and provide excuses for not reading his filter?
Note: I have disregarded the claim because well, it is a claim and others are providing insight into that.
My point with VE was that he exposed Foolishness' contradiction, which held a lot of weight because my town read on him rested on my agreement with his BM case - that he wasn't wasting his time screwing around.
On July 22 2012 06:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Yesterday when we were lynching Kurumi, you took the following actions:
Berate thread for discussing D3 lynch Build case on BM
In what way do those actions indicate that your intension is, as you claim, to focus the thread on lynching BH D3? Up to that point the majority of what I saw against Foolishness was meta reads from all the vets who knew each other, not something strong enough that I would shoot on - yet the line of questioning showed that he would so easily drop his BM case in a situation where the question where the lynch options were on equal ground, i.e. not an issue of consolidation.
The point I was bringing up with Chezinu was that BM was pushing me on really flimsy grounds.
On July 21 2012 01:45 slOosh wrote:Concerning Bill Murray: Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 18:23 Bill Murray wrote:SLOOSH WROTE: On Foolishness: many people (including sandroba!) think he is scum and I'm not seeing it. I'd have preferred if focused his energies on someone other than BM (opposed to other vets I would like better reads on such as Palmar, syllogism), but that's alignment null. So I've looked into BM to determine legitimacy of his read, which I find myself agreeing with and I'm surprised that BM has been so easily dismissed because people are hunting execs, because 1) mafia is mafia, so dismissing it purely on "hunt execs" makes no sense, and 2) to think an exec couldn't pretend to own his minion's power is a dangerous oversight. I think BM is trolling mafia as I don't see any town interest in his posts, opposed to Chezinu who is trolling but has a few posts in which he shows critical thought / town insights. Chezinu is town power role I am also town power role your reads are shit here Chezinu has been spouting a lot of nonsense, and the fact BM expects me to take such claims as serious and valid makes no sense, nor does it logically follow that my reads are flawed due to this. I merely said that a few posts of his seem insightful, but to take every post of his seriously is nonsense. BM has shown that he has power / contact with someone with the power.Yet the logical conclusion isn't that these people are cleared - there are minions who can have powers or execs who can disguise themselves with these said powers. BM is demeaning my reads on nonexistent grounds. He blaming me for not seriously considering all of Chezinu's claims which is ridiculous, and demeans my reads on that alone. I never thought Chezinu was town; when I said a couple of his posts seemed insightful I was drawing a contrast that even he was putting in some effort, whereas Bill Murray had shown no insight and no interest in the game. If I ever threw muck at his name it was unintentional dismissal of an intentionally abstruse person who was making it difficult to read the thread.
In light of the recent events however, it has become clear that Chezinu is someone worth focusing on due to his abilities, which is why I said
On July 22 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote:Probulous I'm assuming is some sort of kingmaker (?) - and he made VE king to lynch BH. Prob has also said that Chezinu is some sort of rolecop: Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 10:47 Probulous wrote: Time to read that Ole foolish filter. I don't think Chez is scum. He worked out my role but never outed it. I think he can check the names of roles because he correctly emphasised the first three letters of mine to me and only me. Prob is it clear from your role name what your ability is? Because from a minion perspective, the knowledge of someone's role is hard to use - even if you knew someone was blue you can only submit the name to CEO kill list, and outting something like that isn't a town thing to do in the first place. But I also thought he was some sort of messenger role? Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote:On July 22 2012 02:20 Palmar wrote: I haven't caught up since last night. Did Chez ever claim messenger role? The way Chez does, yes. And he sent me a message so... I forgot who said it (was quite recently) that scum and town may have mirror/similar abilities. Sandroba was a clear instance of a town messenger - use ability to find out scum. Chezinu or whoever is sending seems like they are sending messages of confusion (house of Chezinu etc.). In any case I still have to do more rereading & filtering in light of the new information influx. I doubt one person could have multiple abilities like so, which is why I asked for confirmation in case I misunderstood something.
As for the concerns of my role's plausibility: that's what I got. I can't shoot unless mafia haven't died in 1.5 cycles. If it's a really weird / unlikely role, I can't help it. It's what I got.
|
On July 23 2012 10:10 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +Like I said, if he was scum, why wouldn't he just claim "vig that can shoot from N2 onwards" or something? It doesn't make sense for him to fake-claim that as scum. Because that isn't strange is it It's quite simple really. slOosh realised he was on the wrong end of the Foolishness thing and so decided to save his bacon with a claim. Problem is that he had to find an excuse not to shoot Kurumi night 1 so he made up a delay thing. Then when people quetioned his use of the word delay he had to make up something that explained it. There is no difference between his claim and a night 2 vig. They are both weird and don't make sense. Foolishness flipped the CEO - no-one knew his identity! Why would I make such a claim up on the spot when I know that both town and scum could easily make the same mistake and continue to fly under everyone's radar, yet doing what I did would not hide, but expose the seemingly contradiction in my stance with Foolishness?
|
On July 23 2012 11:12 VisceraEyes wrote: I misread you hard last game slOosh, likewise I'm sure. Your claim is...the same as two other peoples'. One of you is going to die tomorrow. Which one is it going to be? Take a guess? On July 23 2012 01:09 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 01:22 Q-bert-Z wrote: Am I missing something or did Mr Murray say that he also steals the power of the person he votes for? If so, that makes him more or less a role - checker... Why not have him steal sandroba's vote, and see if he gets a messaging power?
Or does that not count as a thread action? (Which, now that I think about it, seems likely)
BM, what kind of information do you receive when you steal someone's power? How do you know what power they have? I haven't gotten to find that out yet. I'd imagine something like this
[logout] : Bill Murray [1 NEW PM] "OH JOY" "You now have the ability #Daykill/Execute/BangBang" "HOLY MOTHER OF AFSDAJHAKL" On July 23 2012 01:59 risk.nuke wrote: I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. <-quote
I can only shoot when no mafia have died for 1.5 cycles, so basically I can only start shooting night 2. <-quote
BM steals a dayvig. <-statement
I'm counting 3 different abillitys. Risk.nuke is quoting me and posting statements in the same post, and somehow thinks 1 and 2 are mutually distinct.
|
layabout
He is in an eerily similar situation as mine - defending someone who is widely regarded as scum.
On July 23 2012 09:32 layabout wrote: Why are people voting for Palmar? I haven't seen anything concrete. He engages in some Q&A with syllogism, the main pusher of the Palmar lynch, asking for some posts:
On July 23 2012 09:41 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 09:36 syllogism wrote:On July 23 2012 09:32 layabout wrote:I still think we should lynch zealos. >>CLICK<< ##vote zealosI think it's worth bearing in mind that both Palmar and Foolishness expressed the opinion that syllogism is mafia and continued to do so. A large part of why syllogism was not a lynch candidate early on was that the players that know him well can easily tell his alignment after a few days. Why are people voting for Palmar? I haven't seen anything concrete. What are you even trying to say here? You aren't even trying layabout. There have been numerous posts explaining the problems people have with palmar's play. Sandroba thought (knew) that Palmar is mafia and sandroba has flipped. He knows palmar very well, so just take his word on him since you are so eager to follow that line of thought? Palmar isn't even trying anymore. It doesn't get much more obvious mafia than this. If there are post's then i am sure you can show me them. And it's totally understandable (for me at least), because what he sees from syllo are posts like
On July 19 2012 08:21 syllogism wrote: Pretty sure palmar is mafia as well. Some of his posts are very reasonable and I even agree with the a lot of content, but his tone and attitude is off. He is also putting in as little effort as possible and basically ignoring me and sandroba despite even at one point calling sandroba confirmed town. Yes this is a very lazy "case" and he probably won't be a lynch candidate tomorrow. On July 21 2012 04:38 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 04:34 HiroPro wrote: Syllo, why do you think Palmar is mafia? You haven't really said anything specific: just that his tone/attitude are off and he's not putting in effort. It's his overall behavior, lack of effort and attitude towards me and sandroba especially. Some of his reads I think are genuine (for example what he says about layabout) and some clearly are not (his BM read). Can you find anything that indicates he cares about the town and wants to push town towards anything useful? He just pops in to say something irrelevant. Town palmar would never think I'm mafia by this point (as a side note, I actually think that there is a chance that he thought that I was early on and tried to "communicate" with me by random voting me). I don't know how good of a player layabout is but him being null on Palmar is inconclusive, because he could be town (or even scum) who genuinely can't see it or scum who sees but is feigning ignorance.
However, what is strange is his defense of Palmar:
On July 19 2012 08:34 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 08:30 syllogism wrote:On July 19 2012 08:28 layabout wrote:On July 19 2012 08:21 syllogism wrote: Pretty sure palmar is mafia as well. Some of his posts are very reasonable and I even agree with the a lot of content, but his tone and attitude is off. He is also putting in as little effort as possible and basically ignoring me and sandroba despite even at one point calling sandroba confirmed town. Yes this is a very lazy "case" and he probably won't be a lynch candidate tomorrow. Syllo do you know why Palmar tends to post like this early on? I would swear that you once told me that players that are well regarded tnd to be so because they have strong day1 reads and that helps to carry them through the game. So what have you been doing about your day1 reads? I've no idea what you are trying to say here, but whatever it is, it has no relevance to my read on Palmar. Do you know why Palmar is hiding all of his reasons for his reads? Why are you sitting back and not acting upon your day1 reads given that "strong day1 reads" is one of the best "qualities"? He is defending Palmar, but doesn't move to accuse syllo of faulty reasoning / accusation. He defends Palmar is town, but doesn't consider syllo as potential scum either.
On July 23 2012 09:55 layabout wrote: Syllogism you are aggressively pushing this lynch but your aren't saying WHY Palmar is scum. Why? Here it's like he is goading someone else to accuse syllo because he doesn't want to do it himself.
On July 21 2012 09:35 layabout wrote: Palmar and Foolishness are calling syllogism mafia. Syllogism in turn is calling both Palmar and Foolishness mafia. Many of you insist on speculating that the host will have made the CEO one of these players (or sandroba or Meapak). It is always dangerous to make decisions based upon out-guessing the host. But if we are aiming to kill the CEO we should plac e our attention on those 3 players.
He believes Palmar is town, and that Palmar called syllogism mafia, but doesn't (read. isn't willing to) connect the dots together. Layabout is acting like mafia who wants to defend a scum buddy but is scared of accusing another scum buddy.
I have incredible eyestrain right now so will follow up the other requests tomorrow.
|
Risk, please state clearly if I am misinterpreting what you said. risk.nuke is not claiming, he is quoting.
On July 24 2012 10:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, we're back under the assumption that scum powers come with townie counterparts.
BH -> slOosh/risk.nuke/supersoft WBG -> Palmar
Two flipped scums with two townie counterparts (one flipped, one ambiguous.)
Now, Sandroba has flipped town as "Bossy Employee" so I posit that Chezinu is scum based on the information we have. Anyone wanna check my math here? On July 23 2012 12:55 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 11:12 VisceraEyes wrote: I misread you hard last game slOosh, likewise I'm sure. Your claim is...the same as two other peoples'. One of you is going to die tomorrow. Which one is it going to be? Take a guess? Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 01:09 Bill Murray wrote:On July 21 2012 01:22 Q-bert-Z wrote: Am I missing something or did Mr Murray say that he also steals the power of the person he votes for? If so, that makes him more or less a role - checker... Why not have him steal sandroba's vote, and see if he gets a messaging power?
Or does that not count as a thread action? (Which, now that I think about it, seems likely)
BM, what kind of information do you receive when you steal someone's power? How do you know what power they have? I haven't gotten to find that out yet. I'd imagine something like this
[logout] : Bill Murray [1 NEW PM] "OH JOY" "You now have the ability #Daykill/Execute/BangBang" "HOLY MOTHER OF AFSDAJHAKL" Show nested quote +On July 23 2012 01:59 risk.nuke wrote: I am a Crazed Employee - basically a delayed 1 shot vig, and I targetted Foolishness last night. <-quote
I can only shoot when no mafia have died for 1.5 cycles, so basically I can only start shooting night 2. <-quote
BM steals a dayvig. <-statement
I'm counting 3 different abillitys. Risk.nuke is quoting me and posting statements in the same post, and somehow thinks 1 and 2 are mutually distinct.
On July 24 2012 08:34 Probulous wrote: Remember people, Day 1 only Foolishness knew his two subordinates. Palmar's play is very similar to Foolishness in that both of them softly pushed people who are likely scum and tunnelled those that are likely town. In Day 1 Palmar straight up called Sandroba confirmed scum and then tunnelled Syllo. However, despite Sandroba being "confirmed scum" and Foolishness pushing Syllo like crazy, Palmar opts to constantly soft push MZ. Why?
I think MZ is the other executive and Palmar never knew this. Palmar is smart, he would easily pick up on how MZ was going with the flow on Day 1 but he cannot push him hard because of his vet status he might be an exec. Then suddenly come Day 2, he stops mentioning MZ at all. Why? Well because Foolishness has found a way to let his execs know who their buddy is. With Palmar flipping minion it looks like Foolishness was trying to set up a mislynch on a vet with his death (intentionally acting weird with regards to Palmar) and got unlucky as he didn't expect a not-exec Palmar on his team. Bringing up Palmar's original list
On July 17 2012 23:06 Palmar wrote: ... Meapak_Ziphh Blazinghand ... Thank me later. As a minion he didn't know anyone. Yet he chose to hard defend BH. This was either through a message or through his own reads that he pegged BH as mafia that needed saving. With Meapak it's hard to tell because he was never in real danger of being lynched, so either Palmar could have been prodding someone he thought town and seeing if it would gain traction, or prodding someone he thought mafia to remain credible according to his town play. Conclusion, associative tells with Palmar are helter skelter.
With Meapak I think his filter alone is enough to deem him scum, and potentially exec with his vet status:
On July 17 2012 02:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 02:43 supersoft wrote:On July 17 2012 02:37 sandroba wrote:On July 17 2012 02:36 Mattchew wrote: CAN SOMEONE READ WHAT I POSTED ON KATINA, AT THE VERY LEAST TO JUST TELL ME IM WRONG You are wrong. Katina alignment is non conclusive right now. Move on to palmar/mz/bh/syllo/probulus. ah I corrected that list for you ;-) * stop going for palmar. All of you. That guy works best if you let him do his job. judge him based on his results not based on his playstyle.+ On July 17 2012 02:27 Palmar wrote: Supersoft nailed it. MVP. I'm going to stop playing and start working on a bronze statue of him to erect in my bathroom. this makes him the most hillarious player so far. We can't afford to lose him. Despite what he'll have you believe, Palmar is not allergic to contributing. Bolded part is extremely retarded, Palmar isn't good enough to justify giving special privileges to. Only player of that caliber in this game is foolishness and even so it'd be nice if he'd make an appearance soonish. On July 17 2012 07:29 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:lol sandroba that was beautiful. ##Vote: KurumiSo let's talk about tomorrow. My assumptions are that Chez will continue trolling and that Palmar will continue to be worthless but let's broaden our horizons. Blazinghand and rastaban spring to mind, BH has been discussed a fair bit but I'll shed some light on rastaban. + Show Spoiler + Some of his greatest his include posts like this: On July 16 2012 23:32 rastaban wrote:Caught up now, thoughts so far: First off the random vote is a bad idea, normally the reason it is used is to eliminate mafia influence, but guess what the mafia don't know who each other are so this lynch will be without their influence anyway. We have a golden opportunity to have a lynch today with mafia having to base their judgments on reads, and make hard choices while not able to communicate. Fellow employees do not squander this opportunity! This leads to my second point, Lynching scum doesn't put someone in the clear, especially this early in the game. They don't know who each other is so they can lynch themselves, so look for sound reasoning not just who they voted for. @ HiroPro Third yes mafia only has 1 KP see: Show nested quote +Extra Information: The mafia kill process goes like this: Every day, all mafia members except for the CEO send in a name on who they wish to kill. Then, the CEO must choose to kill one player on the list by the night deadline. Fourth, While I think a Policy lynch on claiming blues is bad, I do think you bring up a very valid point. As you mention 1 for 1 may not be a bad trade for them so I think we should certainly be extra wary of any claimants and possibly lynch the claimant if it seems fishy, but I think a Policy is going a bit too far. OK so thats my setup review / plans post, I am now working on locating scum so I will follow up in a bit with my thoughts on who to lynch. This: On July 17 2012 00:15 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 00:08 Kurumi wrote:On July 17 2012 00:06 HiroPro wrote:That's why I want the random lynch to be right before the half-cycle Cycle is day-night. Half cycle is either day or night. They probably can communicate right now. Mind you, that's only 3 messages. CEO-High Rank-Minion and High Rank-Minion. And they get only 1 shot to do so, so they will need to wait before sending it out. and it sounds like names are restricted in someway as well. Say we start to lynch a minion, then only 1 other person knows he is mafia (the high rank) at most he can probably say don't let this lynch go through. and it gets sent to the other 2 minions, but only if he hadn't said anything before that. or he won't even be able to say that. They also need to wait to hear from the leader or they can't forward on his message. This means more confusion as they have to wait later to try and save someone. This is why this lynch is so unique and a great shot for us to lynch scum. (full disclosure, I forgot they could send one message now though, which is why I said they would have no impact in my previous post) And this: On July 17 2012 05:18 rastaban wrote: I like the case on BH better than the on Mz right. I feel GGQ is right in his assessment that mafia will use the lack of ties to make them more bold in their case rather than second guessing. Look at my play as Serial Killer, I decided to try and play as pro town as possible, I ended up going overboard and tunneling risk.nuke in my effort. I feel like MZ's caution is the sign of town who wants to get things right rather than scum who wants to get the day over with. Think about it we still have more than 24 hours of discussion to go.
As others have also pointed out, he is also trying too hard to find reasons for his votes, it makes them seem fake.
##vote blazinghand What traits to these posts share? They're extremely wishy-washy, there's a lot of setup speculation, and his current vote was part of a bandwagon where he was merely parroting other's opinions. I'll continue to keep my eye on my other little fishes but they've been well discussed unlike rastaban who has been skirting the radar. Thoughts? (people who read the thread only please). He is doing the same thing Palmar is doing. Going after big name players but backing off when it seems like they could be scum. He says that Palmar isn't special enough to give privileges to, yet his actions and words speak otherwise. Focuses on and picks on safer choice rastaban, who isn't as big of a loss if on same team as Palmar.
|
|
|
|