| phodacbiet United States. July 02 2012 22:06. Posts 931 | Profile # |
http://minus.com/mLvjZlHez/1g
So it seems that TvZ in Korea is fairly balance, but the international games statistic is quite off. PvZ seems pretty balanced worldwide but it should be a couple months until blizzard buff/ or nerf something to oblivion to screw it up somehow someway. PvT seems VERY good but the Protoss strong late game and Terran strong mid game could still exist.
Yes, I know you guys are going to say Zerg is still broken by pointing out at the international graph "but but Korea doesn't have enough games! We cant tell if its imba/ or not based on a few games!", but think of it this way. If the win rates were balanced at the international level for TvZ but imbalanced for KR, would you have posted saying "but but we only look at KR for the highest level possible! Not international chobos?" Most people probably would. Once again, dont read too much into these graphs because they are only one way to decide balance. Yes we know that there are Zergs players that played terribly and lost, but that goes for Protoss and Terran players as well, everyone has their on and off days and these statistics should account for the chokers.
On July 03 2012 00:01 Ctuchik wrote:
Here is the TVZ Korea data for reference:
June TvZ: 58-56
GSL and GSTL TvZ: 29-32
Proleague TvZ: 3-6
Kespa Exhibition TvZ: 3-4
KSL Finals TvZ: 3-1
ESV Korean Weekly 5,6,7 TvZ: 20-13
That being said TLPD is flawed. If they counted Code A qualifiers and TSL qualifiers it would skew the winrates heavily in Zergs favor and both of those tournaments are much harder then the ESV tournament but neither is in the TLPD database. Todays OSL qualifiers won't be in the database either and those qualifiers were brutally hard.
Code A qualifiers TvZ (not counting amateurs or teamless Koreans): 14-36
TSL4 KR qualifier #1 TvZ: 26-42
TSL4 KR qualifier #2 TvZ: 25-38
TSL4 KR qualifier #3 TvZ: 16-24
So Ctuchik explained that the TLPD database doesnt include all the games, but it seems that zerg are indeed doing a bit better than their terran counterpart. To me, it seems like terrans can win when they prepare but lose when they dont have a set plan in mind for the zerg which could explain why they are doing a bit better in GSL than in other tourneys. IMO these stats WILL get worse for terrans since I dont see late game terran being that great. I think if they revert ghost snipe change it would make really interesting end games. Imagine a max zerg army and an army of ghosts and fungals/emp/snipes were being thrown everywhere would make a really great viewing experience =). But, knowing blizzard, next patch some random buff/nerf like "Zealots now get +2 range" will get thrown in and everyone will go O_O? Last edit: 2012-07-03 09:22:48 |
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 SeaSwift Scotland. July 02 2012 22:17. Posts 4485 | Profile Blog # |
No offence, but isn't it normally Ctuchik who does these graphs?
I'm happy to see PvZ looking pretty much dead even in Korea, but a bit surprised by the Korean TvZ. I thought it would be more imbalanced than that. |
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| phodacbiet United States. July 02 2012 22:18. Posts 931 | Profile # |
| Got it from twitter. But yeah PvZ looks pretty good actually, PvT is surprising as well with terran beginning to take the lead (what changed?). |
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| Noocta France. July 02 2012 22:20. Posts 8620 | Profile # |
On July 02 2012 22:18 phodacbiet wrote:
Got it from twitter. But yeah PvZ looks pretty good actually, PvT is surprising as well with terran beginning to take the lead (what changed?).
Terran got better at not dying against squirtle timing.
And generaly feelmore confident about the match up, which help a ton.
TvZ right now is almost the sameproblem, people are scared of it, not confident they can win, so they don't win as much. |
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| Raid United States. July 02 2012 22:20. Posts 398 | Profile # |
Im shocked Korean TvZ is that balance while Internationally its gotten worse than ever.
Sample size is too small in Korea... but it still looked like every zerg was winning in Korea.. not sure whats up. |
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| Leetley Finland. July 02 2012 22:20. Posts 1784 | Profile # |
| Hmm, I think the zerg buffs are showing accordingly, but terrans haven't yet gotten used to them. S'cool. |
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| SeaSwift Scotland. July 02 2012 22:21. Posts 4485 | Profile Blog # |
I would imagine that Terrans got better at abusing the mobility of the midgame when you have Medivacs/Stim/Combat shields etc. and denying Protoss from ever reaching 3+ bases comfortably.
I'd be very interested to see the stats of TvP at different time periods in the game. I think you would start off with it about even (maybe 2rax or blink all-ins or something at very low times) then a big swing to Terran in the midgame then a big swing to Protoss in the lategame. |
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| Whole United States. July 02 2012 22:23. Posts 4943 | Profile Blog # |
| Seems that Korean Terrans were busy figuring out the new TvZ while International Terrans were busy complaining about balance. Last edit: 2012-07-02 22:25:53 |
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| Sated England. July 02 2012 22:25. Posts 3375 | Profile Blog # |
On July 02 2012 22:20 Raid wrote:
Im shocked Korean TvZ is that balance while Internationally its gotten worse than ever.
Sample size is too small in Korea... but it still looked like every zerg was winning in Korea.. not sure whats up.
It may well be "worse than ever", but it's scraping the 55/45 limit that Blizzard has stated several times is perfectly acceptable...Last edit: 2012-07-02 22:25:33 |
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| Lorch Germany. July 02 2012 22:25. Posts 2204 | Profile # |
On July 02 2012 22:23 Whole wrote:
Seems that Korean Terrans were busy figuring out the new TvZ while International Terrans were complaining about balance.
Which is kinda what happens everytime a patch hits that leads into a very heated discussion about balance.
Looking good as always, I'd say next month tvz should be almost 50% again. |
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| Aocowns Norway. July 02 2012 22:26. Posts 3476 | Profile Blog # |
On July 02 2012 22:23 Whole wrote:
Seems that Korean Terrans were busy figuring out the new TvZ while International Terrans were complaining about balance.
lol yeah, that's what happens when you live in a team house and not a frat house |
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| SilSol Sweden. July 02 2012 22:26. Posts 2665 | Profile # |
| Hmm these figures seems weird too me. I'll look into it. |
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| Asha` United Kingdom. July 02 2012 22:26. Posts 26549 | Profile Blog # |
On July 02 2012 22:23 Whole wrote:
Seems that Korean Terrans were busy figuring out the new TvZ while International Terrans were busy complaining about balance.
All the korean Terrans complain about TvZ =p
but they're just much better players so still win games. |
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| Hypemeup Sweden. July 02 2012 22:27. Posts 2630 | Profile # |
On July 02 2012 22:23 Whole wrote:
Seems that Korean Terrans were busy figuring out the new TvZ while International Terrans were busy complaining about balance.
The new TvZ looking at korean terrans games are various all-ins?
Nice!
Not to mention that all high end Korean Ts also complain about Z  Last edit: 2012-07-02 22:27:48 |
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| Tsubbi Germany. July 02 2012 22:29. Posts 5971 | Profile # |
On July 02 2012 22:26 Asha` wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 22:23 Whole wrote:
Seems that Korean Terrans were busy figuring out the new TvZ while International Terrans were busy complaining about balance.
All the korean Terrans complain about TvZ =p but they're just much better players so still win games.
oh you!
ofc they complain about z, 51% winrate must feel underpowered after 2 years of dominating |
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| mEtRoSG Germany. July 02 2012 22:29. Posts 192 | Profile # |
| fake? no way terran has had so many wins against zerg ive only seen zerg wins in gsl gstl etc |
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| phodacbiet United States. July 02 2012 22:29. Posts 931 | Profile # |
On July 02 2012 22:27 Hypemeup wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 22:23 Whole wrote:
Seems that Korean Terrans were busy figuring out the new TvZ while International Terrans were busy complaining about balance.
The new TvZ looking at korean terrans games are various all-ins? Nice! Not to mention that all high end Korean Ts also complain about Z
What game have you been playing for the past 2 years? =) somewhere, somehow, someway, someone is always complaining about something. |
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| Gentso United States. July 02 2012 22:29. Posts 1107 | Profile # |
| Foreigners can't typically create extremely solid styles on their own like the hellion opener. Only person who's been effective at something like that is Stephano. So when the game gets changed they have to wait for Koreans to figure everything out first. |
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| Hypemeup Sweden. July 02 2012 22:30. Posts 2630 | Profile # |
On July 02 2012 22:29 mEtRoSG wrote:
fake? no way terran has had so many wins against zerg ive only seen zerg wins in gsl gstl etc
Nah, Korean terrans are actually doing ok against zergs, they have found ways to beat them before 14 minutes. |
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| Bagi July 02 2012 22:31. Posts 5875 | Profile # |
| OP, I think your little defensive speech does more harm than good. This thread will become pure zerg balance discussion. |
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