| KgKris United States. July 02 2012 23:58. Posts 142 | Profile # |
I posted this on /r/Diablo but I wanted to get TL's thoughts as well:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/vxc3z/the_lack_of_player_vs_player_combat_is_starting/
"Not having arenas is fine. WoW launched without battlegrounds and we all made due for a few months.
However, Blizzard's indefensible stubbornness of excluding DUELING entirely from the game -- when it was the number one PvP activity in Diablo II -- is a total disaster in terms of attracting new players, motivating players to farm PvE content, and just creating a social and fun environment perfectly suited for creating content for youtube and twitch.
BLIZZARD how have you learned so little about player retention after 10 straight years of WoW??"
Poll: If DUELING was enabled would you be more actively playing D3?Yes (129) 65% No (68) 35% 197 total votes Your vote: If DUELING was enabled would you be more actively playing D3? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
Last edit: 2012-07-02 23:59:06 |
| | "Additional supply depots required." |
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| Medrea July 03 2012 00:00. Posts 9999 | Profile # |
| No PvP in general is really bad. Ive made a few thousand bucks off the RMAH, I laugh when i think how much more I could be making if PvP were in the game. |
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| Kambing United States. July 03 2012 00:02. Posts 1086 | Profile # |
| Dueling without (attempted) balanced PVP mechanics is pointless. Unlike MMOs, Diablo has a finite amount of content that can be consumed in a relatively short period of time, leaving farming as the only long-term carrot. PVP helps provide additional incentive for those that don't feel the need to perfect their characters (myself include), but it will only attract a minority of players rather than a majority. |
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| KgKris United States. July 03 2012 00:03. Posts 142 | Profile # |
| It's just that if you can't compete or match your gear and skill up against your friend's, then this game can quickly become extremely antisocial |
| | "Additional supply depots required." |
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| awu25 United States. July 03 2012 00:04. Posts 1999 | Profile # |
On July 03 2012 00:02 Kambing wrote:
Dueling without (attempted) balanced PVP mechanics is pointless. Unlike MMOs, Diablo has a finite amount of content that can be consumed in a relatively short period of time, leaving farming as the only long-term carrot. PVP helps provide additional incentive for those that don't feel the need to perfect their characters (myself include), but it will only attract a minority of players rather than a majority.
I think he's talking about casual dueling though. I would have fun just dueling some of my friends like you could in WoW. Not necessarily play them in a PvP arena environment.
But I do agree that PvP is the minority. Most people who quit the game will use no PvP as an excuse for quitting when they actually just didn't really enjoy the gameLast edit: 2012-07-03 00:05:24 |
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| KgKris United States. July 03 2012 00:05. Posts 142 | Profile # |
On July 03 2012 00:02 Kambing wrote:
Dueling without (attempted) balanced PVP mechanics is pointless. Unlike MMOs, Diablo has a finite amount of content that can be consumed in a relatively short period of time, leaving farming as the only long-term carrot. PVP helps provide additional incentive for those that don't feel the need to perfect their characters (myself include), but it will only attract a minority of players rather than a majority.
PvP adds an entirely new DIMENSION to the game of Diablo 3. People might fight each other naked or lowbie duels for fun. You can get soooo much more creative when two humans are competing against each other.
Isn't that why we all love SC2 so much :D |
| | "Additional supply depots required." |
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| Kambing United States. July 03 2012 00:16. Posts 1086 | Profile # |
On July 03 2012 00:05 KgKris wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 00:02 Kambing wrote:
Dueling without (attempted) balanced PVP mechanics is pointless. Unlike MMOs, Diablo has a finite amount of content that can be consumed in a relatively short period of time, leaving farming as the only long-term carrot. PVP helps provide additional incentive for those that don't feel the need to perfect their characters (myself included), but it will only attract a minority of players rather than a majority.
PvP adds an entirely new DIMENSION to the game of Diablo 3. People might fight each other naked or lowbie duels for fun. You can get soooo much more creative when two humans are competing against each other. Isn't that why we all love SC2 so much :D
I agree. My point is that the mechanics for Diablo 3 currently aren't balanced towards PVP combat which is why PVP is delayed in general. Personally, I wouldn't find dueling with friends any kind of fun beyond the first hour if the combat was balanced at all. And also I wouldn't care to put any kind of effort into it knowing that everything will change once the "real" PVP comes out.
Don't get me wrong, just adding in the ability to duel people is a strict value-add with little downsides (the biggest of which is people needlessly speculating about PVP balance when they shouldn't). However, it's a value-add with very little benefit since only an ultra minority of players will participate in it to a meaningful degree. |
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| Skyro United States. July 03 2012 00:28. Posts 1414 | Profile # |
On July 03 2012 00:16 Kambing wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 00:05 KgKris wrote:
On July 03 2012 00:02 Kambing wrote:
Dueling without (attempted) balanced PVP mechanics is pointless. Unlike MMOs, Diablo has a finite amount of content that can be consumed in a relatively short period of time, leaving farming as the only long-term carrot. PVP helps provide additional incentive for those that don't feel the need to perfect their characters (myself included), but it will only attract a minority of players rather than a majority.
PvP adds an entirely new DIMENSION to the game of Diablo 3. People might fight each other naked or lowbie duels for fun. You can get soooo much more creative when two humans are competing against each other. Isn't that why we all love SC2 so much :D
I agree. My point is that the mechanics for Diablo 3 currently aren't balanced towards PVP combat which is why PVP is delayed in general. Personally, I wouldn't find dueling with friends any kind of fun beyond the first hour if the combat was balanced at all. And also I wouldn't care to put any kind of effort into it knowing that everything will change once the "real" PVP comes out. Don't get me wrong, just adding in the ability to duel people is a strict value-add with little downsides (the biggest of which is people needlessly speculating about PVP balance when they shouldn't). However, it's a value-add with very little benefit since only an ultra minority of players will participate in it to a meaningful degree.
D2 pvp wasn't balanced at all either. I think it would be a fun addition with the same caveat as in D2 where Blizz states that they are not going to balance around 1vs1s. How it will effect retention I'm not sure, but personally I've never really looked at D3 as a game I was going to play for multiple months/years. It's a hack-n-slash game, not a MMO. |
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| EchelonTee United States. July 03 2012 00:32. Posts 3404 | Profile # |
| Yes; it would give me a reason to play with my friends. At the moment, even with the co-op damage nerf (which was great), a party of 2 is the max we ever want to do runs with. Any more, and it takes forever to burst down elites, which is especially a problem when dealing with bad affixs/limited resources. |
| | learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9] || Na`Vi - LGD - Dignitas - Liquid - Fnatic |
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| zev318 Canada. July 03 2012 00:38. Posts 1475 | Profile # |
| the lack of a good game is hurting player retention, there i said it |
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| Phenny Australia. July 03 2012 00:42. Posts 1399 | Profile # |
I think PvP is extremely dumb in games like diablo when it's predominantly a PvE game and created as such. If you want to play PvP there are games that are made and balanced for it.
That said if it would help the game in any way (99% sure it would) I support it because anyone that doesn't wish to is not forced to play it, and including it would not be a detriment to the people that just want to farm so I have no qualms with including it. I played D2 for 4+ years and dueled on no more than 3 maybe 4 occasions. |
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| udgnim United States. July 03 2012 00:50. Posts 6461 | Profile Blog # |
I voted yes not because I would PvP but because I'd probably be more motivated to continue PvE farming.
GAH & RMAH sales have been really slowing down because many people are happy just being able to farm A1 Inferno which doesn't take amazing gear to farm. if PvP was in D3, it would create a continuous demand for better items whereas that demand gets met very quickly if just wanting to farm A1 Inferno. |
| | E-Sports is competitive video gaming with a spectator fan base. Do not take the word "Sports" literally. |
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| Medrea July 03 2012 00:52. Posts 9999 | Profile # |
| I just want PvP in so I can charge stupid amounts of money for garbage on the RMAH. |
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| Medrea July 03 2012 01:29. Posts 9999 | Profile # |
At least Duels would be nice.
EDIT: Whoops, meant to edit.Last edit: 2012-07-03 01:29:53 |
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| ThaZenith Canada. July 03 2012 07:14. Posts 3046 | Profile Blog # |
| Lack of social features, lack of pvp, lack of interesting itemization, lack of an end game(that isn't farming for lame items). The core of why people leave. |
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| Zaqwert United States. July 03 2012 07:40. Posts 388 | Profile # |
On July 03 2012 07:14 ThaZenith wrote:
Lack of social features, lack of pvp, lack of interesting itemization, lack of an end game(that isn't farming for lame items). The core of why people leave.
Yep, there's a ton of things wrong and all of them are contributing to the massive drop off in people playing.
The level cap is a big deal IMO. In d2 hitting 99 was a very long process, in original it was almost impossible. It gave you a sense of progress while you were farming. Say you farmed for awhile and didn't find anything good, well maybe you got 1/8th of a level.
Now you get nothing.
The fact the items are just generic and uninteresting is also a problem.
Also no incentive to level up more characters. People would remake the same class over and over in D2 to try different builds, now with insta-remake your character everyone is gonna be 60 and 1-59 public games are gonna be dead as a doornail.
And obviously no PvP sucks too.
The lack of a good social system or lobby that makes you feel like you are part of the world also sucks.
Game just has serious problems. You can really tell the people who made it had no real idea why D1/D2 were so great. |
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| Onlinejaguar Australia. July 03 2012 10:43. Posts 2626 | Profile # |
| Game needs more then just dueling to keep people interested. |
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| Tryndamere Canada. July 03 2012 10:50. Posts 116 | Profile Blog # |
| Game has no intrinsic reward and classes are heavily imbalanced. Duel or no duel, makes no difference. |
| | My right arm is much stronger than my left arm! |
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| Doraemon Australia. July 03 2012 10:58. Posts 9600 | Profile Blog # |
| i find it sad that i almost don't want my friends to play with me because they slow me down and make me die more often. it should not be designed that way but unfortunately it is. |
| | Do yourself a favour and just STFU |
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| sob3k United States. July 03 2012 11:05. Posts 4674 | Profile Blog # |
On July 03 2012 00:38 zev318 wrote:
the lack of a good game is hurting player retention, there i said it
so brave |
| | In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities. |
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