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| StimmedProbe Hong Kong. July 03 2012 04:37. Posts 63 | Profile Blog # |
StimmedProbe's Postpatch TvZ Build #1 12-14-18rax
Last Update: July 3rd, 2012
Build #1 of 3: 12-14-18 rax
Basic Idea:
This build is a metagame build designed to take advantage of the comfort that 4-6 queens provide zerg players. This build provides a sizeable ammount of marines to launch an early attack. This build also provides a strong follow-up attack with marines mauraders and hellions.
Build Order:
10 – Supply Depot
12 – Barracks
14 – Barracks
16 – Marine
17 – Orbital Command
17 – Supply Depot
18 – Marine
18 – Barracks
<Pump marines, scvs and depots>
32 – Command Center (5:00-5:10)
38 – Refinery x2
@100gas factory
@50gas reactor
Attack with 16 marines (Roughly 6:05), micro, focus fire and try to lower the surface area while still providing wiggle room for your marines if they need to escape.
Tips and Tricks:
- Try to hide the 2nd and 3rd rax if possible, this makes it look similar to a 1rax FE to the zerg
- Try to prevent an overlord from seeing if you have taken your expansion
- Clear watchtowers with 2-3 marines for extra surprise
- If you see the gas later than 4:00 you are in GREAT SHAPE because it takes the zerg roughly 3 minutes to get speed from the time they start their gas, you will hit a sick timing with your 16 marines (20-25 seconds before speed finishes)
- Queens will kick you out at ~4:45 so make sure to leave with your scout before that, try to see what time the gas is taken and if a spine was built
- Build your factory near one of your rax so you can make some reactored hellions quickly
- Try to lower surface area, but always provide a way to escape from surrounds (keep your back to the wall, but always have an exit path along the wall)
- You can use the mineral patches or hatchery to provide some 'cover' for your marines, they greatly reduce surface area
- Try to snipe overlords, if you can supply block him even for a short time, you can do massive damage
Follow up:
If you do not win the game right away you can follow up with a marine/maurader/hellion timing. I recommend 4-5 rax and 1-2 factories. Get stim/shields/shells and if you like blue flame. +1/+1 is also possible. Just try to spend the mini trust fund you accumulated during the marine micro as well as you can based on the situation. You can bring some scvs along if you like as well for a stronger timing. If that attack does not finish the game, you can procede into standard play as long as your two attacks did some decent damage by taking a 3rd and swapping some addons.
How to hide what you are doing *New*:
- Try to build your 2nd/3rd rax at your natural. This will help you in a few ways. First of all you might be able to kill the drone before it gets a chance to check the main and the natural. Second of all you might be able to wall the drone into your main, so it cannot check your natural for additional barracks.
- Try to anticipate the 1st overlord movement, and pick somewhere to put your 2nd and 3rd barracks accordingly.
- Position a few marines at the ramp (2-3) at around 4:40, since this is when a zerg will poke your front with a few lings.
- Place your 3rd depot somewhere in your main so you can spot if an overlord is moving in
Replays:
http://drop.sc/212866
In this game I notice my opponent did not take an early gas. My attack hit a little bit before speed and I crushed through his queens, drones and zerglings.
http://drop.sc/212867
In this game I did the attack with 16 marines and managed to supply block him a few times. I also used the minerals/hatchery to reduce surface area well.
http://drop.sc/212868
In this game I attack with a few less marines, which gave him some time to prepare when my 16 marines came in. I still did pretty good damage, and although I macroed pretty bad during the attack I was able to finish him off with my 2nd attack.
More builds to come in the next few days!Last edit: 2012-07-03 22:01:39 |
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 HaXXspetten Sweden. July 03 2012 04:41. Posts 15716 | Profile Blog # |
| Nice to see you're still sticking with it ^^ |
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| Targe United Kingdom. July 03 2012 04:45. Posts 2203 | Profile Blog # | |
| | If you reply to me, make sure to keep my name in the quote or I probably won't reply | Wax: fuck i forgot people can't read |
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| intense555 United States. July 03 2012 04:45. Posts 239 | Profile # |
| I don't know about this, feels like 6 queen opening with a spine can defend. It just feels like marines without stim and shield are kind of useless against zerg now. Queen ling too efficent v this. |
| | Top 50 GM HoTS, member of Clarity Academy, come watch! http://www.twitch.tv/intensesc |
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| StimmedProbe Hong Kong. July 03 2012 04:50. Posts 63 | Profile Blog # |
On July 03 2012 04:45 Targe wrote:
Is this all one base?
The first 16 marines are off 1 base, the 2nd cc is building. Read the post >.<
On July 03 2012 04:45 intense555 wrote:
I don't know about this, feels like 6 queen opening with a spine can defend. It just feels like marines without stim and shield are kind of useless against zerg now. Queen ling too efficent v this.
16 marines do insane amounts of damage with focus fire and micro, zergs sometimes skip the spine when they see a 1rax FE. I have never had a problem with 1 spine alone and no one has ever had two spines when I arrived completed.Last edit: 2012-07-03 04:56:19 |
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| Targe United Kingdom. July 03 2012 04:55. Posts 2203 | Profile Blog # |
On July 03 2012 04:50 StimmedProbe wrote:The first 16 marines are off 1 base, the 2nd cc is building. Read the post >.<
Ah thanks! I did read it but when scrolling I must have missed the BO. |
| | If you reply to me, make sure to keep my name in the quote or I probably won't reply | Wax: fuck i forgot people can't read |
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| Dark.EX United States. July 03 2012 04:56. Posts 1515 | Profile Blog # |
Awesome! I can't wait to use this in BoX's.  |
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| FlubbaSet Germany. July 03 2012 05:00. Posts 7 | Profile # |
| Many Zerg don't get a spinecrawler anymore and rely on queen only defense. This opening could work pretty well if it is unscouted. |
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| spbelky United States. July 03 2012 05:17. Posts 614 | Profile Blog # |
| It's been a while since I've seen a [G] from you stimmedprobe, good to see you're still at it. I'll have to mix this in to my current play when I get the chance. |
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| -FoX United States. July 03 2012 05:45. Posts 463 | Profile # |
| Nice guide, always loved guides out of you StimmedProbe. Good to see you're still writing. |
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| Belial88 United States. July 03 2012 05:51. Posts 5217 | Profile Blog # |
On July 03 2012 05:00 FlubbaSet wrote:
Many Zerg don't get a spinecrawler anymore and rely on queen only defense. This opening could work pretty well if it is unscouted.
4 gates, double starport banshee, 1 base DT, also work very well when unscouted.Last edit: 2012-07-03 05:51:56 |
| | How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100 |
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| spbelky United States. July 03 2012 06:02. Posts 614 | Profile Blog # |
On July 03 2012 05:51 Belial88 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 05:00 FlubbaSet wrote:
Many Zerg don't get a spinecrawler anymore and rely on queen only defense. This opening could work pretty well if it is unscouted.
4 gates, double starport banshee, 1 base DT, also work very well when unscouted.
Are you really trying to compare an economic 3rax to a bunch of beta cheese strats? |
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| oOOoOphidian United States. July 03 2012 06:29. Posts 1249 | Profile # |
On July 03 2012 06:02 spbelky wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 05:51 Belial88 wrote:
On July 03 2012 05:00 FlubbaSet wrote:
Many Zerg don't get a spinecrawler anymore and rely on queen only defense. This opening could work pretty well if it is unscouted.
4 gates, double starport banshee, 1 base DT, also work very well when unscouted.
Are you really trying to compare an economic 3rax to a bunch of beta cheese strats?
3 rax only works unscouted. If zerg gets some combination of speedlings, queens, a spine crawler, or banelings, this will not work. I've tried it. 2 rax is superior by far. |
| | http://www.twitch.tv/ooooophidian |
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| Semtext Germany. July 03 2012 06:42. Posts 285 | Profile Blog # |
On July 03 2012 06:29 oOOoOphidian wrote:
3 rax only works unscouted. If zerg gets some combination of speedlings, queens, a spine crawler, or banelings, this will not work. I've tried it. 2 rax is superior by far.
i guess thats why he tells you to hide your 2nd and 3rd rax in the OP. i'll try that a few times. sounds interesting to go against my instincts to upgrade my marines with the first rax+techlab... |
| | http://de.twitch.tv/semtext | FBH, aTnSocke, aTnDelphi, TtWhiteRa, EG.ThorZaIN, ESCGoOdy, Liquid`TLO |
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| Flonomenalz Nigeria. July 03 2012 06:59. Posts 2903 | Profile # |
On July 03 2012 06:02 spbelky wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 05:51 Belial88 wrote:
On July 03 2012 05:00 FlubbaSet wrote:
Many Zerg don't get a spinecrawler anymore and rely on queen only defense. This opening could work pretty well if it is unscouted.
4 gates, double starport banshee, 1 base DT, also work very well when unscouted.
Are you really trying to compare an economic 3rax to a bunch of beta cheese strats?
Are you serious?
Aside from 4 gate, the other two builds almost always involve an expansion.
DT expand was quite a common build before, and so was cloak banshee --> expand (before the spore crawler root time). As a matter of fact, 1 port cloak banshee --> 3 CC is still a fairly common build.
This 3 rax expand is just as cheesy as a DT expand, in the sense that if you don't do sufficient damage, you pretty much lose. 6 queens w/ some transfuse and slow lings can hold this off as long as you don't allow the marines to walk into a low surface area position. From there, your tech is so behind and your upgrades probably will be too, you cannot win without the zerg seriously screwing up. |
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| XenoJesus United States. July 03 2012 07:41. Posts 72 | Profile # |
Cool build! Hopefully we'll get to see more of these kinds of timings.
Nice guide and great job! |
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| gsbElfenLied Sweden. July 03 2012 08:41. Posts 45 | Profile # |
| you would need to be very careful about denying scouting of your natural, if a competent zerg spots no cc at 4:30-5:00 he'll spine up with atleast 2 spines. |
| | If i type something interesting here, will you respect my opinion more? |
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| Vanchen July 03 2012 09:45. Posts 55 | Profile Blog # |
| http://drop.sc/213162 Here is my attempt at it. Opening worked great, just my follow up wasn't so great. Denying scouting of the nat is hard on some maps so on some maps, I don't think you can do this. 1 Spine was no problem even with 3 queens there. |
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| StimmedProbe Hong Kong. July 03 2012 15:05. Posts 63 | Profile Blog # |
On July 03 2012 09:45 Vanchen wrote:http://drop.sc/213162 Here is my attempt at it. Opening worked great, just my follow up wasn't so great. Denying scouting of the nat is hard on some maps so on some maps, I don't think you can do this. 1 Spine was no problem even with 3 queens there.
Not bad not bad, I have a couple of tips for you though. Make sure you focus fire the queens if you have a chance, that will hurt the zerg quite a bit in the long run if they lose all their queens. In addition try to keep your marines along a wall if possible to reduce surface area for lings and drones.
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| Orek July 03 2012 15:38. Posts 1426 | Profile # |
This build will keep Zerg honest.
Whoever skips all scouting, gas, spine and ling then go all out queen will be punished hard.
The build is essentially 12 14 2rax at start, so even if 2rax attack doesn't come immediately upon scouting 2 rax, skipping ling production and a spine is a greedy play from Zerg and deserve to be punished.
As OP stated, denying scout is a big part. 5min CC is very late. Standard 1 rax FE is 3min10sec CC, and a competent Zerg would probably know that its not even 1rax either by seeing 2nd rax or couting SCV number at mineral line.
I like how OP called this "metagame build." Blindly going 6 queens metagame will die to this build easily when executed well.
In future, Zerg players will adapt and make at least 1 spine and save transfuse energy if scouting natural failed in case of this push coming. Otherwise, super greedy Zerg, myself included, deserve to lose. |
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