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| Asolmanx Italy. July 05 2012 00:19. Posts 128 | Profile # |
Hi everybody, i'm GengisKhan, Diamond zerg. I watched a lot of day9 dailies, and I heard him talk A LOT about unit positioning and expansion management in late game. I thought i got it , but then a question came to my mind and i couldn't find the right answer.
Here's the scenario
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cYesv.jpg)
ZvX
Green dots are spores to zone drops.
Yellow dots are Spines, we make them in places that are far from the broods and need defence.
Squares are bases
Arrows represent army movement
The Cross stands for deneied expansion
The Circle stands for the army position right now
Now, with our broodlord positioning we are able to cover our 3 right bases, while the spines on the left side can stop minor attacks.
But, let's suppose the enemy pushes on the left side and denies our base ( i don't think you can do much about), then he proceeds to move all of his army towards your natural, and has enough to take the spines down, kill your natural and move up into the main, where he will be able to destroy the hive and all of the tech.
How should the zerg react to this push? the broodlords are far away from the engagement, and it will take a lot of time for them to come back and defend, Probably the natural is going to go down, but maybe they can make it in time to save the main. But, if they do, you leave your 3 right bases extremely vulnerable to attacks. Maybe you could build spines, but they are very close to the rally of the enemy, and i don't think they will have hard time breaking it down. So maybe the zerg should attack? but especially against terran, base trading with broodlords doesn't seem the best idea, also, once you push one of his bases, you are too far away to come back defend your 3rd/4th/5th.
So, i don't know, maybe have some supply devoted in lings and some banelings, and pull the lings, banelings, and some infestors to defend the push? What about the broodlords? what should they do? where should they go?
I mean, you got my dilemma, i'm not going to list every possible option, it would take too much time.
What do you think? How should the zerg react?
EDIT. I'm really sorry, i forgot to put the [D] int he title. Forgive me, this is one of my first posts, if someone could edit that for me it would be great. Thanks
*I changed the color of the BL circle because i felt that the black one was not very visible*Last edit: 2012-07-05 01:49:44 |
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| MysticaL Canada. July 05 2012 00:49. Posts 79 | Profile # |
I don't know if your army is stronger or not, but I would do it this way.
If your army was stronger:
1. you can run towards your home and try to kill his army completely, and then GG push to his base. This is risky because he can kill your NAT, maybe a few tech buildings, and retreat
2. Counter his natural with your BL + send lings/some ground units to his top left base. If you see him retreating, REGROUP with ALL of your units (make sure you don't get outpositioned and army separated). If he continues to base race, make sure to send drones to your broods so that you can remake a base.
I would prefer option 2 because if your army is stronger, it's probably better to take the trade. Engaging him directly (after losing half of your main army) will let him rebuild too quickly with 5 bases.
If your army was weaker:
1. You basically got outpositioned, should have stayed at home. Broodlords shouldn't be moved out until you have a nice composition to deal with P's army |
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| Kogan Germany. July 05 2012 00:51. Posts 83 | Profile # |
thinking of the last day9 daily i will suppose your army is able to beat his in a straight up fight. so if u see him attack ur spines with his whole army just move your broodlords there. if he commits after destroying the spines he is traped and u can kill his army.
edit : nice picture btw^^Last edit: 2012-07-05 00:53:36 |
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| Zrana United Kingdom. July 05 2012 00:54. Posts 675 | Profile Blog # |
I think you need to be using overseers/changelings etc to spot the push coming sooner and have the blords ready to intercept it before it can damage your main + nat.
Maybe you're a little more vulnerable to counterattacks at other bases but probably you can hold them off with spines/lings/banes until you've dealt with the main terran army with your blord/infestor comp.
Also that expansion pattern seems a bit odd to me, the base just north of your nat seems like a better choice of 6th than the one south of his natural. |
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| Oboeman Canada. July 05 2012 01:06. Posts 3407 | Profile # |
Is this protoss or terran opponent?
If it's protoss, you send your zerglings to kill the nexuses at his 4th and 5th bases while your broodlords and infestors slowly trundle home. You will probably lose your natural but it's not important because you kill all of his primary mining base and the important part of your army is still alive.
Against protoss you can also sometimes just bring a spinecrawler with your army and base trade him, instead of bothering to defend at all.
If it's terran, counterattack with all your ultra-ling. If he has orbitals at base 4 and 5, make them lift and burrow, but if they are PFs its a tougher decision. If you have 3-4 ultras you can easily clear them.
The big threat from terran is that even if you kill his army (while sacing your natural) his next reinforcement wave is going to run up the right side of the map and take out your mining bases while your broodlords are defending your base. You need to be prepared for the second wave, and one way to do that is to counterattack directly into his natural with all your ling/ultra and a few infestors to kill reinforcements and camp his production. If he is walled too nicely, kill all the depots at his natural and 3rd base (since he probably has nice walls at both). While that happens you bring your broodlords and infestors home towards his army, and use all reinforcing zerglings to support.
When you are counterattacking like this, you want to hit him early enough that he has to think about turning around. You don't wait until he is in your spinecrawlers, you have to make that attack as soon as he starts to move towards the left base.
If your broodlords are out of position, you are going to take damage, so make sure he takes damage as well.Last edit: 2012-07-05 01:12:18 |
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| Asolmanx Italy. July 05 2012 01:43. Posts 128 | Profile # |
On July 05 2012 00:54 Zrana wrote:
I think you need to be using overseers/changelings etc to spot the push coming sooner and have the blords ready to intercept it before it can damage your main + nat.
Maybe you're a little more vulnerable to counterattacks at other bases but probably you can hold them off with spines/lings/banes until you've dealt with the main terran army with your blord/infestor comp.
Also that expansion pattern seems a bit odd to me, the base just north of your nat seems like a better choice of 6th than the one south of his natural.
I guess that if you take the expansion north of the natural, you got your natural + main + expo covered by the broodlords while you can use them to push his 4th and 5th base. At the same time tho, you leave 4th (the base near the third) and the 5th (base in the corner) very vulnerable to counter attacks.
In the last daily, day9 said that taking the expansion under his natural is a very solid option if you have your broodlords placed like in the picture, because you can cover all of your mining bases. I guess that It's a stylistic choice where you want to expand.
On July 05 2012 01:06 Oboeman wrote:
If it's terran, counterattack with all your ultra-ling. If he has orbitals at base 4 and 5, make them lift and burrow, but if they are PFs its a tougher decision. If you have 3-4 ultras you can easily clear them.
The big threat from terran is that even if you kill his army (while sacing your natural) his next reinforcement wave is going to run up the right side of the map and take out your mining bases while your broodlords are defending your base. You need to be prepared for the second wave, and one way to do that is to counterattack directly into his natural with all your ling/ultra and a few infestors to kill reinforcements and camp his production. If he is walled too nicely, kill all the depots at his natural and 3rd base (since he probably has nice walls at both). While that happens you bring your broodlords and infestors home towards his army, and use all reinforcing zerglings to support.
When you are counterattacking like this, you want to hit him early enough that he has to think about turning around. You don't wait until he is in your spinecrawlers, you have to make that attack as soon as he starts to move towards the left base.
If your broodlords are out of position, you are going to take damage, so make sure he takes damage as well.
I like this solution, I guess that against protoss it would be smarter to go back and defend, but if you are facing a terran his respawn is going to kill your right bases. I like the fact that you considered it in your answer.
So now I have a question. How much supply do you invest in your ultra-ling (bane), and aren't you afraid that your broodlord infestor corruptor force won't be enough to face the enemy's army?
I never thought about the fact that maybe maxing on broodlord corruptor infestors (and maybe a few lings) isn't the best choice because it makes it obviously harder to defend bases. Last edit: 2012-07-05 01:57:24 |
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