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| Fenneth Australia. July 05 2012 01:52. Posts 309 | Profile Blog # |
I can't understand why Blizzard devotes man-hours to making crappy maps when there is a whole community of volunteers out there who make far superior maps and would be absolutely delighted for Blizzard to use them on the ladder.
Nice article though, mapmakers have an interesting viewpoint which isn't often enough seen. |
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| Names Canada. July 05 2012 01:59. Posts 134 | Profile # |
On July 05 2012 01:52 Fenneth wrote:
I can't understand why Blizzard devotes man-hours to making crappy maps when there is a whole community of volunteers out there who make far superior maps and would be absolutely delighted for Blizzard to use them on the ladder.
So they can put their name on it and do as they please with it... Blizzard doesn't particularly want to use other people's map in their ladder pool but they have to because the community agrees on the fact that those "volunteers" are doing better work at making maps than blizzard is at the moment.Last edit: 2012-07-05 01:59:58 |
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| Severus_ July 05 2012 02:01. Posts 740 | Profile Blog # |
| i think i played only 1 match on this map its so bad. None of the races can hold a 4th base ever even in mirrors. |
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| Shiori July 05 2012 02:03. Posts 2815 | Profile Blog # |
| It's a pretty awful map. The one map maker is correct when he says it confines Toss to 2 base all-inning against Zerg. It's like an even bigger Tal'darim Altar that's even harder to pressure on. Vetoed. |
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| Fragile51 Netherlands. July 05 2012 02:09. Posts 15569 | Profile # |
On July 05 2012 01:52 Fenneth wrote:
I can't understand why Blizzard devotes man-hours to making crappy maps when there is a whole community of volunteers out there who make far superior maps and would be absolutely delighted for Blizzard to use them on the ladder.
Nice article though, mapmakers have an interesting viewpoint which isn't often enough seen.
Yeah, because antiga and entombed valley are terrible maps and have had only terrible games on them, right? Blizzard showed that they are capable of creating good maps, with a little help. |
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| IronManSC United States. July 05 2012 02:14. Posts 1640 | Profile # |
On July 05 2012 02:09 Fragile51 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 01:52 Fenneth wrote:
I can't understand why Blizzard devotes man-hours to making crappy maps when there is a whole community of volunteers out there who make far superior maps and would be absolutely delighted for Blizzard to use them on the ladder.
Nice article though, mapmakers have an interesting viewpoint which isn't often enough seen.
Yeah, because antiga and entombed valley are terrible maps and have had only terrible games on them, right? Blizzard showed that they are capable of creating good maps, with a little help.
I think people are more harsh than they ought to be.
As I stated plainly in this interview, they're doing a better job, but it's still not great.
There are some people, like superouman (sorry buddy), that have the mindset that a map is either the next famous GSL map, or it's terribad. One or the other. I mean honestly, if you look at blizzard season 1 maps and compare them to a map like condemned ridge, it's more than obvious that blizzard has improved in little ways.
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| | ESV Map Maker. || twitter: @ESVironManSC || Author of Ohana, Khalis, Ravage, Khaydaria, Spring |  |
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| jackalope1234 July 05 2012 02:15. Posts 122 | Profile # |
| I immediately vetoed it. Blizzard really still doesn't understand map making i dont think. |
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| bokchoi Korea (South). July 05 2012 02:22. Posts 5340 | Profile Blog # |
On July 05 2012 01:52 Fenneth wrote:
I can't understand why Blizzard devotes man-hours to making crappy maps when there is a whole community of volunteers out there who make far superior maps and would be absolutely delighted for Blizzard to use them on the ladder.
Nice article though, mapmakers have an interesting viewpoint which isn't often enough seen.
I think its because they already have these "map designers" on payroll as part of the game design team (or some other team). What else are they gonna do? Maybe map design is like the bitch work/freshman hazing for new members of the development/design team.
Also, I don't know how ESV + Crux maps work (if they're purely volunteer, or get some monetary incentive from tournaments, etc.) but the KeSPA mapmakers (in BW) were paid for their maps.
It could be that Blizzard does infact want a dedicated map-making team or a larger dedicated eSports team, but that their investors, business partners, etc. don't see why these things are necessary. When you are a large company you can't just do things because you want to or feel like it, you have to be able to justify it. |
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| kinglemon Germany. July 05 2012 02:25. Posts 196 | Profile # |
On July 05 2012 01:52 Fenneth wrote:
I can't understand why Blizzard devotes man-hours to making crappy maps when there is a whole community of volunteers out there who make far superior maps and would be absolutely delighted for Blizzard to use them on the ladder.
they still make nice maps now and then.
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| JustPassingBy July 05 2012 02:31. Posts 6244 | Profile Blog # |
| Looks like Shakuras with a hole in the middle. and the plateous in the middle moved to the border and became accessible cliffs behind your natural. |
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| Archybaldie United Kingdom. July 05 2012 02:50. Posts 754 | Profile # |
You know ... as a protoss im enjoying this map more and more i play it and its great seeing the opinions of great map makers.
My PvT seems unchanged from the usual.
But I tend to go for fast 3rd builds when i play PvZ. So a good portion of how i play is defending the 3rd.
Sure its quite open but its sort of "behind" my natural. So the position of defending my 3rd is very close to the same position of defending my natural. So i personally find it a little easier to defend the 3rd. Then you add the long distances which gives me a good amount of time between reinforcement waves. Also there is a fair amount of places to put down a pylon for reinforcements. I still need to play more pvz on it but so far i'd say its growing on me where my initial reaction was pure terror. The LoS blockers at the 3rd also seem to have been helpful when i'm defending.
If there is 1 change i'd have liked to see it would be rocks at the 3rd NOT BLOCKING the expansion ... just "choking" the natural so if zerg want to break down the rocks before an attack go for it it buys me time if they dont then it saves me forcefields. Also taking a 4th is uncomfortable, im not sure if that's a bad thing though.
In my head Rock-blocks = bad ... Rock chokes = very useful.Last edit: 2012-07-05 02:51:34 |
| | I'm in the bubblewrap league ... i just keep getting popped | |
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| chadissilent Canada. July 05 2012 03:03. Posts 920 | Profile # |
| Superouman did nothing but bitch and complain about Blizzard but the other two mappers had some good input. It was a decent read, thanks. |
| | cDrone || Senior Adviser to Clarity Gaming || @cDroneSC2 |
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| Baum Germany. July 05 2012 03:16. Posts 948 | Profile # |
On July 05 2012 02:09 Fragile51 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 01:52 Fenneth wrote:
I can't understand why Blizzard devotes man-hours to making crappy maps when there is a whole community of volunteers out there who make far superior maps and would be absolutely delighted for Blizzard to use them on the ladder.
Nice article though, mapmakers have an interesting viewpoint which isn't often enough seen.
Yeah, because antiga and entombed valley are terrible maps and have had only terrible games on them, right? Blizzard showed that they are capable of creating good maps, with a little help.
In fact both of these map are pretty broken. I can't enjoy watching a single game on Antiga anymore. It's always the same stupid struggle to get a fourth or just a 3 base all in from both players.
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| | I want to be with those who share secret things or else alone. |
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 Aunvilgod July 05 2012 03:24. Posts 2031 | Profile # |
| I´d bet money that Superouman plays toss. |
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| Clarity_nl Netherlands. July 05 2012 03:28. Posts 3283 | Profile # |
On July 05 2012 01:59 Names wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 01:52 Fenneth wrote:
I can't understand why Blizzard devotes man-hours to making crappy maps when there is a whole community of volunteers out there who make far superior maps and would be absolutely delighted for Blizzard to use them on the ladder.
So they can put their name on it and do as they please with it... Blizzard doesn't particularly want to use other people's map in their ladder pool but they have to because the community agrees on the fact that those "volunteers" are doing better work at making maps than blizzard is at the moment.
They don't have to do anything, it's their decision.
Just be glad Blizzard listens to community feedback but be even more glad they don't jump on bandwagons immediately.
As another poster has said, people tend to categorize maps in very black and white way. Either it's a perfect map or it's the worst thing to ever happen to mankind. They are getting better, and despite your first impressions of ANY map, you won't really know until a high volume of games have been played on it.
If I get to cherry pick a quote from the article:
Ironman: The destructible rock removal for Condemned Ridge may have upset a few people here and there but when you look at the bigger picture, it shows that Blizzard is listening and they're taking a step in the right direction. This should've been done months ago, but it's still progress. Ever since the TeamLiquid Map Contest, they've shown interest in community maps and their feedback, so I would say their overall map production is improving. They're doing good, but not great.
Nice article btw OP 
PS: SUPEROUMAN likes to complain.Last edit: 2012-07-05 03:31:20 |
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| Shiori July 05 2012 03:33. Posts 2815 | Profile Blog # |
On July 05 2012 03:24 Aunvilgod wrote:
I´d bet money that Superouman plays toss.
So what if he does? He's entirely correct. Playing macro on this map against Zerg is practically suicidal as Protoss. You're basically inviting Infestor/BL deathballs. |
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| Mario1209 United States. July 05 2012 03:37. Posts 1076 | Profile # |
| Superouman just complained about blizzard being bad the whole time, and i feel like Jacky really didn't say anything useful. IronMan did a good job in this article, seems like he really cared about it. |
| | Co-Manager of Soviet Gaming * http://twitter.com/#!/sGMarioo * http://www.facebook.com/SovietGamingfanpage * https://twitter.com/#!/SovietGaming | |
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| WolfintheSheep Canada. July 05 2012 03:37. Posts 1739 | Profile # |
On July 05 2012 02:09 Fragile51 wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 01:52 Fenneth wrote:
I can't understand why Blizzard devotes man-hours to making crappy maps when there is a whole community of volunteers out there who make far superior maps and would be absolutely delighted for Blizzard to use them on the ladder.
Nice article though, mapmakers have an interesting viewpoint which isn't often enough seen.
Yeah, because antiga and entombed valley are terrible maps and have had only terrible games on them, right? Blizzard showed that they are capable of creating good maps, with a little help.
And let's not forget how wonderful Cloud Kingdom and Korhal Compound are, right? Those volunteers sure make perfect maps every single time.
If it's a choice between community vetted maps and Blizzard designed maps, I'm pretty sure Blizzard would have the better track record. In fact, taking Blizzard maps and removing close spawns, they've got a really good track record for solid maps. The community is just too disjointed to ever get good, creative, balanced maps on a fairly consistent basis.
That said, the absolute best choice would be a dedicated map developer group with dedicated (high level) balance testers. But I doubt that will ever happen. |
| | Average means I'm better than half of you. |
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| monitor United States. July 05 2012 03:48. Posts 2276 | Profile Blog # |
On July 05 2012 03:24 Aunvilgod wrote:
I´d bet money that Superouman plays toss.
He plays Zerg.
Nice article, I'm glad to see some more exposure for the mapmakers and I hope its helpful to readers. |
| | Starcraft 2 Mapmaker for TPW || Author of Korhal Compound | |
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