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| GleefulPiXie Canada. July 05 2012 06:01. Posts 76 | Profile Blog # |
Hey there, I am a Mid diamond Protoss Player. I recently played a PvZ on the ladder on Shakuras Plateau. The game went long and I lost to ye' olde Brood lord infestor push. I thought I played quite well for my level, and have thoughts on where I went wrong myself (Definitely not enough pressure in the late game, etc) but would like to here the opinions of community members too so I can improve in those areas. Thanks!
http://drop.sc/214587
My perspective:
I opened with a stargate +1 4gate attack on the Z's third - I killed it and got home with pretty much 0 losses. Great. Excellent. I have a void ray on the map and I know he's going Hydras because I scouted it with that void. Now what? Well I tech to colossus and take a third base. I'm now on three bases and sitting happily. I'm getting upgrades and building my deathball. In my mind, once I have range and around 3 colossus I'm debating pushing into the creep and combating the hydra/baneling/roach force with my deathball or just holding off until I max. I decide to wait until the max, and take a fourth base. I poke in with stalkers to deny his 5th, and he pressures with broodlords. I back up, and up and soon he's at my front door. I engage in a terrible position and have no storms to deal with the juicy units and lose a massive chunk of my army. He pushes through and wins. In my opinion if I have pressured more than just the initial third snipe and the later 5th snipe I would have been in better position. In my opinion while I was in the game, he was on the backfoot - I had a safe third up and had enough colossus to defend any roach/hydra pressure. But then he got bloords out and I was just crushed. A part of this was, in my opinion, my lack of gas. I was having trouble affording both constant colossus + storm and HT. I think if I had storm and landed good ones on top of his force as began his siege of my third it could have changed how the battle had been fought.
Last edit: 2012-07-05 06:26:16 |
| | Master Protoss Player - www.twitch.tv/gleefulmidget - Don't eat the crab dip yahyah |
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| monk United States. July 05 2012 06:11. Posts 6827 | Profile Blog # |
| Got any more thoughts? You probably need more analysis of your own game to get helpful feedback. |
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| BlinkGosu United States. July 05 2012 06:15. Posts 38 | Profile # |
| If i had to point to 1 reason why you lost i would say its because you didnt make any voidrays as he was pushing you with the Broodlord infestor. Besides that there were obvious macro issues IE: you could have taken your 4th and 5th bases several minutes sooner than you did. Another thing to think about is throwing down more gateways, and then using warp prisms to base trade while he pushes you with the Broodlords. You had lots of banked resources and thats always a sign of not enough gateways. |
| | Hallucinated probes can mine..... right? |
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| GleefulPiXie Canada. July 05 2012 06:31. Posts 76 | Profile Blog # |
On July 05 2012 06:15 BlinkGosu wrote:
Another thing to think about is throwing down more gateways, and then using warp prisms to base trade while he pushes you with the Broodlords. You had lots of banked resources and thats always a sign of not enough gateways.
I agree with your point on taking an earlier fourth - That ties in with my lack of gas as I grew my deathball. I had around 12 gateways at the 20 minute mark, how many more should I add in? I think 20 is a solid number for 4 base, but I've always been tentative about taking a 4th base in PvZ just so I don't get caught in a bad spot if he chose to push and re-max. I think you're neglecting to take into account the fact that I was maxed and that stockpiles resources. Are you suggesting that I should have added more gateways and started trading armies more often? Also - About the warp prism comment, I really dislike forcing base trades in situations like this. I would be open to use them for harassment, but for a full on base trade? It seems unpractical. |
| | Master Protoss Player - www.twitch.tv/gleefulmidget - Don't eat the crab dip yahyah |
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| BlinkGosu United States. July 05 2012 06:46. Posts 38 | Profile # |
| Well you had about 5 thousand resources stockpiled right? The point is you couldn't spend it all in one warp cycle, which is bad. In my opinion there is no "maximum" amount of gateways, and its more just based on how many resources you have stockpiled. I often times end up with around 30 gateways simply so i can spend 3k on chargelots at my warprprisms and then spend my gas instantly on archons back at home. Its not that you are sacking your base by warping at his, because if you trade in the middle of the map or even closer to his base then you have time to muster defenses as well as warp in lots of stuff at multiple of his bases. I prefer to warp in ~10 chargelots and 5 DTS at each prism. In the meantime youshould be going for a Mothership, archons, and voidrays back home. In regaurds to the 4th base it really just depends how far back his army is, and the best way to draw his army back is with---- you guesed it, warpprism harass!! haha just practice with prisms, they really are a keystone of Top level PvZ |
| | Hallucinated probes can mine..... right? |
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| Tuczniak Czech Republic. July 05 2012 07:21. Posts 967 | Profile # |
-in early and mid game some issues with constatnt probe production and main undersaturated while natural oversaturated
-Sooner 4th
-Maybe less zealots and sentries and more stalkers and colossus?
-warprism
-try not to commit without vortex?
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| honeybadgersc2 United States. July 05 2012 10:38. Posts 2 | Profile # |
Masters protoss here- below are the 4 issues that I think you should work on, ordered keeping in mind how easy to fix & how much they would help.
1. When you were maxed first at 200/200, you stopped spending which should never happen. You should have taken a 4th and 5th, while adding 10 to 15 more gateways (and maybe another robo/stargate).
2. The fast void + gateway army timing attack was popular several seasons ago, but the meta game now is usually to just use the void for scouting/picking queens & ovies (with phoenix) while going for colossus or fast upgrades or a fast 3rd. If you do an attack like this, I think it's worth trying to poke at the zerg natural after killing the 3rd. Even if he has a bunch of roaches or speedlings, you can likely micro the stalkers back to your base while zealots tank & die (and in this game you likely would have won). Your void & gateway attack is fairly all-in since it delays robo and doesn't leave you with enough gas for sentries.
3. Spend 3 or 4 more chrono's on probes after your natural finishes. When +1 finished it was a long time until you used it. If you ever chrono +1, you have to attack very shortly after it finishes or your economy will be beat up for nothing. I almost never chrono +1.
4. While your 3rd was building, you didn't make very many probes. 3rd only had 12 probes after completion, and your main & natural nexus were not rallied to it. It remained under-saturated for several minutes longer than needed.
Also just FYI in this game, you were ahead as you hit 200/200 on 3 bases, but because you didn't spend zerg was way ahead about 3 minutes later (even though no battle took place, match favor shifted very quickly). Even if you had micro'd or archon toilet killed perfectly as the large battle at your 3rd happened, zerg still should have been able to win because of his bigger econ and remax ability.
edit- typoLast edit: 2012-07-05 11:29:01 |
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 chaosftw July 05 2012 10:56. Posts 24 | Profile # |
On July 05 2012 06:11 NrGmonk wrote:
Got any more thoughts? You probably need more analysis of your own game to get helpful feedback.
i think he has enough thank you. but he needs to be more in detail, indepth. rephrase that please. |
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| Wolfz United States. July 05 2012 11:16. Posts 21 | Profile # |
| After watching the replay I noticed some issues. When you were maxed and saw that he didnt have broods yet you didnt engage and just sat with your army as you teched towards mothership. You should have taken your extra bases and cannoned them up much earlier for gas income, as you stayed on 6 geysers for the entire game. Lastly, you should find ways to use minerals AKA using warp prisms to pick off drones and tech. A good rule of thumb is to not engage directly with broodlords so you can run around with stalkers and etc. Hope this helps! |
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