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| DarkGeneral Canada. July 07 2012 01:54. Posts 313 | Profile Blog # |
This occurred to me a few minutes ago while I was driving...
A lot of discussion is happening around key systems that are crippling D3, but I just had a breakthrough.
It is NOT the MF system. According numerous polls totaling thousands of unique votes, the playerbase is divided on the MF issue with majority saying it is fine the way it is. (source: incgamers. D3 site, latest opinion poll)
It is NOT inferno. When was the last time a game failed because of adequate challenge?
If players could meaningfully band together and defeat these challenges, there could be no limit to difficulty.
It is the LACK OF SOCIAL play that is crippling. As it is right now, the D3 end game is essentially a single player game. There is no incentive to multiplay. The nerf to multi-player monster strength was a welcome step in the right direction but FAR from enough.
In D2 players could band together and just feel great plowing through mobs. Yes, monsters got stronger, but properly tuned, so that having more players meant a smaller increase in difficulty but a FAR greater reward, TONS more loot.
In D3 loot drops per player, but there needs to be slightly MORE loot per player, or some other incentive, to encourage multiply.
" I took a break from farming to see if I can play my Tank barb. I look at my friends list and everyone is farming Act3 inferno alone. No one wants to group, its just easier to kill things faster as solo. No one wants a tank barb, its a hindrance. So I get back on my wizard and continue farming solo. I found a valuable item? Yaay... Ok its in the AH... ok i'm gonna go play another game, this is boring... "
There HAS to be a motivating and propelling incentive for players to band together and fight. As of right now, it is easier to just solo play and farm. That gets old and it gets old fast.
If Blizzard does not address this, no other change to the game will save this beautiful but tragically ill fated game. |
| | "Everybody gotta die some time, righ'?" - Wraith Pilot |
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| YODA_ July 07 2012 02:02. Posts 420 | Profile # |
On July 07 2012 01:54 DarkGeneral wrote:
This occurred to me a few minutes ago while I was driving...
A lot of discussion is happening around key systems that are crippling D3, but I just had a breakthrough.
It is NOT the MF system. According numerous polls totaling thousands of unique votes, the playerbase is divided on the MF issue with majority saying it is fine the way it is. (source: incgamers. D3 site, latest opinion poll)
It is NOT inferno. When was the last time a game failed because of adequate challenge?
If players could meaningfully band together and defeat these challenges, there could be no limit to difficulty.
It is the LACK OF SOCIAL play that is crippling. As it is right now, the D3 end game is essentially a single player game. There is no incentive to multiplay. The nerf to multi-player monster strength was a welcome step in the right direction but FAR from enough.
In D2 players could band together and just feel great plowing through mobs. Yes, monsters got stronger, but properly tuned, so that having more players meant a smaller increase in difficulty but a FAR greater reward, TONS more loot.
In D3 loot drops per player, but there needs to be slightly MORE loot per player, or some other incentive, to encourage multiply.
" I took a break from farming to see if I can play my Tank barb. I look at my friends list and everyone is farming Act3 inferno alone. No one wants to group, its just easier to kill things faster as solo. No one wants a tank barb, its a hindrance. So I get back on my wizard and continue farming solo. I found a valuable item? Yaay... Ok its in the AH... ok i'm gonna go play another game, this is boring... "
There HAS to be a motivating and propelling incentive for players to band together and fight. As of right now, it is easier to just solo play and farm. That gets old and it gets old fast.
If Blizzard does not address this, no other change to the game will save this beautiful but tragically ill fated game.
I do agree with this. I have two two slightly undergeared friends who struggle to complete Act 1 Inferno. I can and have run them through it myself multiple times, but it takes almost twice as long. Elites I can kill in a single serenity pop now takes me 20 more seconds due to me trying to protect my buddies from dying, and even normal mobs I can trash in one hit, now takes 3 hits with 2 more people in the game. And the reward is............nothing different than when playing alone. I think there should be a 25/35/50 MF bonus for having additional members in your party, and to encourage people to play more together. Unless the players are completely equal in skill/roles, and are communicating perfectly, there is just currently far more downsides than upsides to playing together. |
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| B.I.G. July 07 2012 02:03. Posts 2040 | Profile # |
I agree. I was bored out of my mind farming inferno.. I stopped playing for a couple of weeks and when I checked back in today just for fun, my friend list was empty. Seems like more and more people are giving up...
R.I.P Diablo |
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 HaXXspetten Sweden. July 07 2012 02:08. Posts 15716 | Profile Blog # |
Gonna have to agree on this, I think the game is good as it is, but right now it gives you the feeling of playing because you must rather than because you really want to, at least when you're playing on your mains that has beaten Inferno.
Not sure what the optimal solution is, but I don't think we'll need something super-complicated, just some sort of motivation for going co-op instead of going solo, not just have it as an additional option. |
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| vthree Hong Kong. July 07 2012 02:10. Posts 6274 | Profile # |
| Because when you play in group of 8, you can actually trade/giveaway your drops for the betterment of group. But Blizzard won't PROFIT from that. If you play solo and sell on RMAH, they get a cut. |
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| Durak Canada. July 07 2012 02:10. Posts 3221 | Profile Blog # |
I agree with this and I've thought about it a bit myself. Co-op should be encouraged because people will enjoy the game more and, therefore, increase the player-base and shelf-life. However, I would also find the game more enjoyable by changing gear-swapping. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think they're related.
It is much harder to gear-swap when playing co-op because of the coordination. It takes some thought that the average players don't want to worry about and yet they feel penalized by not doing it. The MF changes can help resolve both issues by buffing (directly or indirectly; depends on balance) the MF for partying. Remove gear-swapping and do something besides average the party's MF.
Edit:
On July 07 2012 02:08 HaXXspetten wrote:
Not sure what the optimal solution is, but I don't think we'll need something super-complicated, just some sort of motivation for going co-op instead of going solo, not just have it as an additional option.
Easy. Tie it in to MF so that serious players will want to do it. Make it small enough so as not to punish single-player but that'll still encourage people to do it.Last edit: 2012-07-07 02:11:55 |
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| ishyishy United States. July 07 2012 02:14. Posts 794 | Profile # |
I dont agree with this. Playing with friends is one thing, but playing with random people is a completely different thing. I do not want to feel like I have to play with 3+ other random people to get the best items in the game. I should be able to get the best items in the game solo, OR with a group, not just one. Personally, I strongly dislike playing with other random people that I dont know. I've played online games for 12 years, all of which forced me to play with people I didnt know in order to get the most out of the game. While it was fun sometimes, there were still instances of trolls and people that purposely try to ruin the game for you or the other people in the group; and I cant stand that anymore.
This is not an open world MMO like WoW; this is purely a grinding game. The main goal/purpose of this game, in general, is to spend as much time as possible grinding mobs for items to sell on the AH. It's ok if you dont like that kind of a game, you dont have to play.
My opinions about diablo 3 in terms of game design and content aside, diablo 3 is a solo play game that allows me to have the option to play Co-op with my friends over the internet instead of having to do it in person. It's like playing a console game (like boulders gate), but your friend doesnt HAVE to be sitting beside you with a controller, but instead they get to stay in their own house. I believe this is the way it should stay. |
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| FoeHamr United States. July 07 2012 02:14. Posts 465 | Profile # |
| It got boring when stuff randomly started to 1 shot you. It really isn't fun anymore, just frustrating. |
| | I got 99 problems and a Terran ain't one |
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| Ownos United States. July 07 2012 02:21. Posts 2144 | Profile # |
On July 07 2012 02:10 vthree wrote:
Because when you play in group of 8, you can actually trade/giveaway your drops for the betterment of group. But Blizzard won't PROFIT from that. If you play solo and sell on RMAH, they get a cut.
You can still do that except the group of 8 being 5? Oh right no one gives away loot that will actually sell. |
| | ...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo |
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| ishyishy United States. July 07 2012 02:27. Posts 794 | Profile # |
On July 07 2012 02:21 Ownos wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 02:10 vthree wrote:
Because when you play in group of 8, you can actually trade/giveaway your drops for the betterment of group. But Blizzard won't PROFIT from that. If you play solo and sell on RMAH, they get a cut.
You can still do that except the group of 8 being 5? Oh right no one gives away loot that will actually sell.
I would give items to my friends who were in the game with me (if it isnt worth TOO much), but i would never give away a single thing to a random person in a public game, ever. WHy? Because they would never give anything to me, and I'm fine with that, and they should be too. |
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| Psychobabas United Kingdom. July 07 2012 02:30. Posts 1957 | Profile Blog # |
Yep, agreed. And there have been community "letters" to Blizzard pointing out this major issue.
Personally I always play solo as its so much easier to kill stuff.
It's weird. Having played Diablo 2 with friends, although the monsters got tough they never got as tough as D3 group-play.
Also, there is very little synergy between characters in Diablo 3. Everybody is doing their own thing and dont give a shit.
But as mentioned, if you have good trusted friends, it is actually worth playing group in Diablo 3 since you can exchange items or just give them to your buddy. But very few people play like that, in my experience.Last edit: 2012-07-07 02:31:52 |
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| ishyishy United States. July 07 2012 02:38. Posts 794 | Profile # |
| The loot system in this game is far, far worse than anything else. It is the most frustrating thing I have ever had to deal with in any game I have ever played. |
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| skyR Canada. July 07 2012 02:38. Posts 11164 | Profile # |
On July 07 2012 02:10 Durak wrote:I agree with this and I've thought about it a bit myself. Co-op should be encouraged because people will enjoy the game more and, therefore, increase the player-base and shelf-life. However, I would also find the game more enjoyable by changing gear-swapping. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think they're related. It is much harder to gear-swap when playing co-op because of the coordination. It takes some thought that the average players don't want to worry about and yet they feel penalized by not doing it. The MF changes can help resolve both issues by buffing (directly or indirectly; depends on balance) the MF for partying. Remove gear-swapping and do something besides average the party's MF. Edit:
Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 02:08 HaXXspetten wrote:
Not sure what the optimal solution is, but I don't think we'll need something super-complicated, just some sort of motivation for going co-op instead of going solo, not just have it as an additional option.
Easy. Tie it in to MF so that serious players will want to do it. Make it small enough so as not to punish single-player but that'll still encourage people to do it.
I don't see how it's much harder to gear swap in co-op. It's actually the complete opposite.
As for the OP: There's a lot of glass cannons looking for a tank so you're just not looking at the right places or hard enough if you can't find people to group with (or maybe you're just undergeared). I actually find group farming much better than solo primarily because I play a melee class. Dying while switching to MF and running all the way back to a reset mob is the most irritating thing ever.
And it seems that everyone hating on group play is playing with others who are undergeared.Last edit: 2012-07-07 02:40:44 |
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| BurningSera United Kingdom. July 07 2012 02:40. Posts 5183 | Profile Blog # |
The main reason of Diablo 3: The Lord of Auction House has failed so far?
Personally i miss the boss run back then. They were repetitive and can get bored in 30mins but thats when i stopped playing (and come back again the next day or whenever i was free). Searching for elite to kill in D3 is very annoying and most of the drops are trash (ie made me feel like i just wasted my time). |
| | Spawn more Overlords - Zerg player at heart. 2009, 820, Yaphets, YamateH <3 |
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| eu.exodus South Africa. July 07 2012 02:42. Posts 942 | Profile Blog # |
it got boring after the first jailer/shielding/desecrator/invulnerable minions elite i came up against. As a demon Hunter with shit gear that i struggle to improve, I could probably kill bosses with enough time and concentration. as soon as that bullshit that traps you in place of prevents actually doing anything (JAILER, WALLER, VORTEX) mixed in with other bullshit affixes makes it just retarded. The artificial difficulty and the need to look for shit at AH to beat the hardest part of the game is whats wrong with this game. Give me the chance to pick up DECENT gear from the mobs I CAN KILL with a bit of micro and ill be a happy dude playing this game for hours.
the fact that you dont require skill or any ability to micro, but super expensive AH gear is what made me stop playing. I couldnt care less who I play with TBH. This isnt Starcraft where you can practice with friends or team up vs other people so i dont see why you would need to be very social when you are hacking shit to pieces to find stuff. |
| | 6 poll is a good skill toi have |
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| Superneenja United States. July 07 2012 02:52. Posts 154 | Profile # |
Game is boring either way. I play with my friends all day and 4man a3, I think what really broke this game was the AH/RMAH. You don't get any satisfaction finding good loot, because most of the time you have better since you bought of the AH or RMAH. It gives players an easy way to get gear, and made the whole point of the game basically to farm gold. My mentality has gone from "I hope I get a drop that'll upgrade me" to "I hope I get a good drop so I can sell it and buy an upgrade" I agree that the social aspect is lacking and do believe the scale of the mobs is whack, but I think there are core flaws with the game which gives it only a limited time of satisfaction.
For example I have a friend who doesn't play or hasn't played any PC games besides the Diablo Franchise, literally waited like almost 10 years to play another game and yesterday he said the game was boring and he was going to watch tv. And that's when I knew D3 failed so hard. |
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| ishyishy United States. July 07 2012 02:54. Posts 794 | Profile # |
I was looking through some of the most expensive stuff on the gold AH, and I have a very hard time imagining people actually having eough gold to buy this stuff. The only people that buy this shit are the chinese botters with trillions of gold. They buy that 100 billion gold peice, then put it ont he RMAH for $250. And it doesnt matter to them because they have thousands of bots running 24/7.
Other than those, there are ones for like 100 million. I mean I guess that is "reasonable", but holy shit man, if you are like me and have a job, you have to grind for months to afford that shit, and that is just for 1 peice of gear!
Maybe it is worth 100 million or more, maybe it isnt. But the fact is, it is very discouraging to a lot of people when they see items priced that high. People like me go on forums and read the threads for their class, and they see all of this "the minimum requirement to do this act in inferno is this and that" and the "...this and that" is the hundreds of millions of gold worth of items. I will probably NEVER have that much gold, so I guess I am done playing the game now or? lol What does blizzard want me to do here? |
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| Juicyfruit Canada. July 07 2012 02:55. Posts 3477 | Profile # |
I don't really understand how people can't find good loot for themselves farming inferno. Did you all pay 3mil+ per piece before you started or what?
I can tell you that the entirety of inferno can be beaten with less than 5 million gold on pretty much any class at this point. Last edit: 2012-07-07 02:56:46 |
| | Do not hate me because I am better than you. There are people better than me as well; go hate them. |
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| freetgy July 07 2012 03:02. Posts 1582 | Profile # |
it just shows you that blizzard didn't understand why his game were this good to begin with.
both SC2 and D3 shows it easily the moment you start the game. It a lack of community interaction.
The chat of Diablo 3 is joke and even worse than Starcraft 2, which is borderland crap already
Also AH & RMAH took alot away of interaction with people. Trading back then was really fun, but today?
Last edit: 2012-07-07 03:03:58 |
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| Krohm Canada. July 07 2012 03:03. Posts 1702 | Profile Blog # |
I had just posted this on the Diablo III forums today.
+ Show Spoiler +I've had the wrong approach to this game the whole time and it just finally dawned on me this morning. Jay Wilson is actually looking out for us. Now I know you're just wondering & wanting to ask "How exactly is he doing that?", well let me learn you a little something general discussion. Jay Wilson is no stranger to video games. He's been playing games for many years of his adult life and it's taken a toll on his body. Look at this recent picture of him: http://i.imgur.com/17QVH.jpgJay Wilson understands perfectly what makes a good game, he knows the ins-and-outs like the back of his hand. That's exactly how he's created such an awful game. He made this game the polar opposite of what's good and addicting. He implemented an unimaginative story full of terrible voice acting so there's very little replay value in it. He implemented lazy game mechanics & poor itemization so you'll get bored with farming the same generic items repeatedly. He's even went so far as to remove any sort of "end-game" from Diablo III. He understands just how addicting PvP and high level-caps can be. Jay Wilson wants you to not be addicted to games, he wants you to become frustrated at the terrible mechanics of the game, and he wants you to recognize the poor uninspired game design; so eventually you'll get so frustrated you uninstall and never play games again. He wants you to go outside, and get laid by the opposite gender (Or the same gender, whatever floats your boat really). He doesn't want you to become a person like "himself". He's a middle aged man who's only made love to one very meager looking woman; his wife. He knows the pain of loneliness all too well, he understands he's in poor health, and very unattractive because of doing nothing in life but playing games. He is being completely selfless in his task to give us all salvation, something he never had because games were always too good and addicting. This man has devoted his life to becoming a head developer to get to the root of the problem. So please stop ripping on this man so much. He in all actuality is only trying to do what's best for us, for our mental & physical health. He is a hero. I personally applaud you Jay Wilson. Because of Diablo III being such a poor game I went out and got a girlfriend now I have sex every time I see her. I've been working out more often to release the frustration this game has caused me, and I've been focusing more on self-betterment. Thank you Jay Wilson, for looking out for me.
In all reality this game has a lot of short comings. Ranging from the bland itemization, bad game design, and artificial difficulty thrown all over the place. I haven't logged on for about 6 days now. It's just not a fun game in any sense of the word for me.
User was temp banned for this post. |
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