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| Plansix United States. July 07 2012 03:12. Posts 5375 | Profile Blog # |
Article
This is one of the reasons I love Blizzard and continue to buy their games, because they admit when things did not go as planned. D3 was a solid in gameplay wise and I played more hours of it than most other single player games I have bought recently. However, when it came to loot, I always felt like I was not getting something awesome enough. The weapons took a bit of a back seat to the abilities. Blizzard appears to agree and is looking into how to correct the issues.
To be clear, I don't blame Blizzard. It is a tall order to make a game with nearly "endless-gameplay" and treasure hunting. Their market base is so much larger than D2 and 3.5 million copies sold day 1, we were pretty well set to break this game no matter how hard Blizzard tried. I think this is one of Blizzards largest problems, they continue to support their games so well after launch that it makes their new releases look weak compaired to their game that have had 10 years of refinement.
But I am sure they wanted to add more loot to the end game, but the game also needed to come out at some point. The discussion likely went something like this:
Manager: Hey, so how is D3 comming.
Programer: Great, we have everything up and running. We are just testing the servers and adding tons more endgame loot. We should be able to release in like, 6 months.
Manager: Yeah, so about that. You know I totally support releasing a product that gives the fans what they want. But right now, we have over 60 hours of solid gameplay, right?
Programer: Oh yeah, totally. The game is great all three time through before the hardest difficultly. But our fans expect endless gameplay, to be able to run the game over and over to get better loot.
Manager:Yeah, I agree and I have been tell the share holders that too. But now that the game is done and playable, it is getting a little harder to sell them on that.
Programer: Really? We have been playable for a while now.
Manager: Yeah, so I lied a bit there. It was hard to sell them on it 5 months ago. Now that the new quarter is comming up, they are just pissed.
Programer: Like how pissed?
Manager:One of them showed up at my kids piano recital, demanding a launch date. My wife was displeased.
Programer: Oh...so we should add that loot after release.
Manager: Yeah...mostly for the sake of my marriage and the health of my children.
Programer: The fans will be pissed.
Manager: They don't sleep in my bed. |
| | Nony on PvT: "It's not imbalanced, the protoss wins and then there is a five minute death animation for the Terran" |
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| ishyishy United States. July 07 2012 03:22. Posts 795 | Profile # |
| Cant expect too much out of a non-subscription game. 60 hours of gameplay for a $60 game is pretty standard. It is a ridiculously bad standard, but thats the way it is right now. |
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| w3jjjj United States. July 07 2012 03:24. Posts 712 | Profile # |
On July 07 2012 03:12 Plansix wrote:
Programer: The fans will be pissed.
Manager: They don't sleep in my bed.
^
User was warned for this post |
| | Chuck Norris can salvage his opponent's structures. |
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| Juicyfruit Canada. July 07 2012 03:27. Posts 3477 | Profile # |
| Gradually adding loot/challenges makes perfect sense for any multiplayer economy-driven game. |
| | Do not hate me because I am better than you. There are people better than me as well; go hate them. |
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| KING CHARLIE :D United States. July 07 2012 03:31. Posts 423 | Profile Blog # |
On July 07 2012 03:24 w3jjjj wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 03:12 Plansix wrote:
Programer: The fans will be pissed.
Manager: They don't sleep in my bed.
^
You heard it here. Blizzard managers share beds with their children...
Can someone explain to me exactly what they mean by end-game item hunt? Not trolling...I really don't know exactly what that is referring to. Last edit: 2012-07-07 03:33:27 |
| | NO TEAM WILL EVER BE AS GOOD AS TEAM LIQUID! |
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| Juicyfruit Canada. July 07 2012 03:39. Posts 3477 | Profile # |
| It's basically just farming high item-level rares (ilevel 62-63) to find a good roll and then either keeping them or selling them. Last edit: 2012-07-07 03:39:31 |
| | Do not hate me because I am better than you. There are people better than me as well; go hate them. |
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| BluzMan Russian Federation. July 07 2012 05:36. Posts 3582 | Profile Blog # |
They have a clear problem with "non-endgame" as well. For some reason I find leveling new characters much more boring than in diablo 2. Well, these factors can contribute:
- Not a single item before Inferno is viable in endgame. In D2 you could get semi-decent loot from normal Baal (does Ravenfrost drop from normal Baal?), in D3 everything I find is worthless.
- Half the "interesting" builds rely on endgame items. Abilities that scale off of AS or Crit are basically unusable before level 60.
- No Nephalem Valor, so you don't even get any items.
- No Nephalem Valor, no items with skill bonuses also mean you cannot commit to a skill build. Partly that's good cause you try out new stuff but that results in pre-60 characters being indistinguishable from one another. I seriously don't understand the "level 2 characters of class X to 60" achievements because those two playthroughs won't differ in any detail unless you place atrificial restraints on yourself. Basically, you don't have to make a single decision.
- 3 difficulty levels are too much. Getting your char to 60 takes too much time and effort and since items are very constricted in regard to required level so that you can't twink your char, it's too hard in a bad way.
From what I see, right now the game is in a catastrophic state because playerbase is steadily declining and even the end item game fails - there's noone to buy all the items I find, everyone is selling and noone is buying and people pay enormous amount of monies for pretty simple stuff. |
| | HotS actually has a deep and emotional storyline if you consider it from the point of your favourite characters slipping into madness after having suffered unbearable losses |
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| Lylat France. July 07 2012 05:45. Posts 3202 | Profile # |
| I still don't understand why the level cap is so low, maybe they should add more levels so you can at least farm for experience besides items. |
| | "When you look at yourself do you see what I see ? If you do, why the fuck are you looking at me ?" Archive |
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| Battleaxe United States. July 07 2012 05:57. Posts 746 | Profile Blog # |
On July 07 2012 05:36 BluzMan wrote:
...I seriously don't understand the "level 2 characters of class X to 60" achievements because those two playthroughs won't differ in any detail unless you place atrificial restraints on yourself. Basically, you don't have to make a single decision.
- 3 difficulty levels are too much. Getting your char to 60 takes too much time and effort and since items are very constricted in regard to required level so that you can't twink your char, it's too hard in a bad way.
From what I see, right now the game is in a catastrophic state because playerbase is steadily declining and even the end item game fails - there's noone to buy all the items I find, everyone is selling and noone is buying and people pay enormous amount of monies for pretty simple stuff.
Anything above the part I quoted I completely agree with.
Fairly certain that achievement was meant for 1 softcore and 1 hardcore character, but I do agree the playthrough would be more or less the same.
4 difficulty levels (normal, nightmare, hell, inferno), unless you were referring to 3 additional difficulties. Aside from that, I don't think making the game hard is a bad thing, thought the difficulty thing to me is sort of a cop out for artificial inflation of difficulty.
In regards to the AH, I still don't understand how people make so much money. I play for 1-2 hours, I actually play instead of farm..and I end up only making roughly 1-200k per session in inferno. I've hit a wall in inferno just because I can't afford AH gear anymore, and I find farming really boring when I still have content to clear or other characters to level. I spent 200k to gear myself into act 2, which I should be able to get through, but don't think I'll be able to make it much further without spending millions of gold or real money on items, which to me is silly enough to just stop playing altogether. I do agree the AH seems to be the same deep pocket people trying to sell each other items at higher prices, so nobody will buy them.
Last edit: 2012-07-07 05:59:40 |
| | Without a community, we're all just a bunch of geeks. |
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| MoonfireSpam United Kingdom. July 07 2012 06:10. Posts 638 | Profile Blog # |
On July 07 2012 03:22 ishyishy wrote:
Cant expect too much out of a non-subscription game. 60 hours of gameplay for a $60 game is pretty standard. It is a ridiculously bad standard, but thats the way it is right now.
Actually compared to what $60 gets to in terms of PPV or DVD content (release day) its probably about right ain't it? I know it's kinda apples and oranges, but to pay basically $1 for one hour of stuff is pretty good anywhere.Last edit: 2012-07-07 06:10:59 |
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| Ownos United States. July 07 2012 06:23. Posts 2144 | Profile # |
I haven't finished Inferno yet. I don't even have a farmable character yet (yay started with a monk, bad decision). I play a few hours every other day. It's plenty sustainable for the rest of us. The power gamers that will eat up grindy MMORPG content in a week are the bored ones.
I just want to know how many actually played Diablo 1/2 because it's really not all that different... maybe the problem is that they stuck to the formula too closely and didn't update for modern tastes. An endless item hunt or slowly leveling to 99 was D2. The latter isn't there anymore. If you don't like the process of getting there then this isn't your game. Is it just a change in taste over the years or are most people, I'm guessing, aren't familiar at all with the Diablo franchise? I really want to know.
And what exactly are people hoping for for an end game? New dungeons? New bosses? More items to hunt for? |
| | ...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo |
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| killa_robot Canada. July 07 2012 06:27. Posts 982 | Profile # |
| To be completely honest I'm not sure how they didn't see this coming. I didn't buy the game because after looking into the gameplay, I realized that once you beat inferno the game was pretty much done (and I hated how the skills/weapons worked). Item hunting is only fun if you actually need to items to do something. Last edit: 2012-07-07 06:28:58 |
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| Saeglopur Canada. July 07 2012 06:30. Posts 146 | Profile # |
On July 07 2012 06:10 MoonfireSpam wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 03:22 ishyishy wrote:
Cant expect too much out of a non-subscription game. 60 hours of gameplay for a $60 game is pretty standard. It is a ridiculously bad standard, but thats the way it is right now.
Actually compared to what $60 gets to in terms of PPV or DVD content (release day) its probably about right ain't it? I know it's kinda apples and oranges, but to pay basically $1 for one hour of stuff is pretty good anywhere.
To my knowledge, there are plenty of people on the internet who are enraged and say things like "I WISH I COULD RETURN THIS GAME IT ISN'T WORTH 60 BUCKS"
If Blizzard were to round these folks together and introduce a new policy that will allow them to get their money back if they've amassed less than 30 hours from release to July 1st, what percentage of people do you feel will be qualified for the return? My guess would be less than 10%.
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| Ownos United States. July 07 2012 06:33. Posts 2144 | Profile # |
On July 07 2012 05:57 Battleaxe wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:36 BluzMan wrote:
...I seriously don't understand the "level 2 characters of class X to 60" achievements because those two playthroughs won't differ in any detail unless you place atrificial restraints on yourself. Basically, you don't have to make a single decision.
- 3 difficulty levels are too much. Getting your char to 60 takes too much time and effort and since items are very constricted in regard to required level so that you can't twink your char, it's too hard in a bad way.
From what I see, right now the game is in a catastrophic state because playerbase is steadily declining and even the end item game fails - there's noone to buy all the items I find, everyone is selling and noone is buying and people pay enormous amount of monies for pretty simple stuff.
Anything above the part I quoted I completely agree with. Fairly certain that achievement was meant for 1 softcore and 1 hardcore character, but I do agree the playthrough would be more or less the same. 4 difficulty levels (normal, nightmare, hell, inferno), unless you were referring to 3 additional difficulties. Aside from that, I don't think making the game hard is a bad thing, thought the difficulty thing to me is sort of a cop out for artificial inflation of difficulty. In regards to the AH, I still don't understand how people make so much money. I play for 1-2 hours, I actually play instead of farm..and I end up only making roughly 1-200k per session in inferno. I've hit a wall in inferno just because I can't afford AH gear anymore, and I find farming really boring when I still have content to clear or other characters to level. I spent 200k to gear myself into act 2, which I should be able to get through, but don't think I'll be able to make it much further without spending millions of gold or real money on items, which to me is silly enough to just stop playing altogether. I do agree the AH seems to be the same deep pocket people trying to sell each other items at higher prices, so nobody will buy them.
You have to wait until you get your first jackpot item to even start shopping on the AH. I can't believe these garbage items on here are selling for 1+ million. Imperfect bracers selling with junk stats on them... just because it has a lot of a primary stat. Like it has STR on a wizard ring with thorns... and health+ globe pick up. If I shell out 5 million for an item, I fully expect to use all the stats on the item.
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| | ...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo |
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| wintergt Belgium. July 07 2012 06:37. Posts 1235 | Profile # |
I seriously don't understand the "level 2 characters of class X to 60" achievements because those two playthroughs won't differ in any detail unless you place atrificial restraints on yourself. Basically, you don't have to make a single decision.
I think they put this incase you did it in softcore and hardcore, otherwise I agree, there is no point in leveling the same char twice.
On July 07 2012 03:31 KING CHARLIE :D wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 03:24 w3jjjj wrote:
On July 07 2012 03:12 Plansix wrote:
Programer: The fans will be pissed.
Manager: They don't sleep in my bed.
^
You heard it here. Blizzard managers share beds with their children... Can someone explain to me exactly what they mean by end-game item hunt? Not trolling...I really don't know exactly what that is referring to.
It's all you do in D2 really, item hunt, and lots of people are still doing just that. But in D3 they managed to botch it up. |
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| ragnorr Denmark. July 07 2012 06:41. Posts 3929 | Profile # |
On July 07 2012 06:30 Saeglopur wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 06:10 MoonfireSpam wrote:
On July 07 2012 03:22 ishyishy wrote:
Cant expect too much out of a non-subscription game. 60 hours of gameplay for a $60 game is pretty standard. It is a ridiculously bad standard, but thats the way it is right now.
Actually compared to what $60 gets to in terms of PPV or DVD content (release day) its probably about right ain't it? I know it's kinda apples and oranges, but to pay basically $1 for one hour of stuff is pretty good anywhere.
To my knowledge, there are plenty of people on the internet who are enraged and say things like "I WISH I COULD RETURN THIS GAME IT ISN'T WORTH 60 BUCKS" If Blizzard were to round these folks together and introduce a new policy that will allow them to get their money back if they've amassed less than 30 hours from release to July 1st, what percentage of people do you feel will be qualified for the return? My guess would be less than 10%.
But thoes gamers are generally overdramatic, majority of them will continue to buy games and whine over the same things. I cant really say D3 is a game i will spend a lot of time with in the future, but i still spend 60-70 hours which i am pretty satisfied with the game overall. Last edit: 2012-07-07 06:44:37 |
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| Enigma87 July 07 2012 06:50. Posts 2 | Profile # |
| I agree with most of the stuff already mentioned. Actually i just wanted to share a few ideas on this thread. 1st being that i would love to see an expansion relatively soon just for like 10 more levels to expand and explore my character a little more. Also they could add some more special dungeons, a new quest, or a unique event. They dont even need a full act immediately. Just like five or ten levels and a few more unique bosses that challange the gamers a little to add something new. Its something to talk about and to keep this game alive. I still play casually enough to appreciate small content adjustments like this and i know it wouldnt be hard for developers to do. |
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| ishyishy United States. July 07 2012 06:55. Posts 795 | Profile # |
On July 07 2012 06:50 Enigma87 wrote:
I agree with most of the stuff already mentioned. Actually i just wanted to share a few ideas on this thread. 1st being that i would love to see an expansion relatively soon just for like 10 more levels to expand and explore my character a little more. Also they could add some more special dungeons, a new quest, or a unique event. They dont even need a full act immediately. Just like five or ten levels and a few more unique bosses that challange the gamers a little to add something new. Its something to talk about and to keep this game alive. I still play casually enough to appreciate small content adjustments like this and i know it wouldnt be hard for developers to do.
More content is definitely needed, but the amount you are speaking of is not worthy of a full blown $30 expansion. What you are asking for is a $5 DLC. But knowing blizzard, it will be a $30 DLC lol.
It is getting to the point where game developers are releasing DLC's a couple weeks after release. It's like they put minimal amount of content into their games, and once people get frustrated over it, THEN they release the content that they purposely took out of what was going to be the original release. I really hope this isnt the case with D3. However, it would also be sad and pathetic if it wasnt because D3, as it stands, is pretty lacking in all departments. |
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| Itsmedudeman United States. July 07 2012 07:01. Posts 8514 | Profile Blog # |
| Yeah, but you can be sure they've made quite a bit off the RMAH. Probably not as much as we think cause there's probably some other fees involved on their side, but still. |
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| a176 Canada. July 07 2012 07:06. Posts 5418 | Profile Blog # |
On July 07 2012 05:45 Lylat wrote:
I still don't understand why the level cap is so low, maybe they should add more levels so you can at least farm for experience besides items.
no HC ladder bummed some people out |
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