[Patch 1.0.0.142: Jayce] General Discussion - Page 14

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On July 08 2012 05:14 Seuss wrote:


There's actually more money in the new jungle than there was in the old jungle even before scaling is taken into account. The problem isn't that money is more scarce than before, but the nature of today's team compositions. Junglers are generally expected to be tanky champions who can either initiate and peel for their team's carry or dive/lock down the enemy carry. Despite the fact that there are many extremely adept junglers who fit other paradigms, those alternatives simply aren't what the vast majority of team compositions are looking for from their jungler.

Obviously junglers who simply initiate and peel don't really need damage, if they do their job properly their carries murder everything for them. Junglers who dive/lock down enemies tend to need tankiness more than damage as well because damage is meaningless if you're dead. In both cases survivability and support are more valuable than damage to the point where many junglers do not buy even hybrid damage/tanky items like Abyssal or Wit's End.

But that only remains true if you're following the most popular paradigm for team compositions. The moment you step away from those three major DPS sources, such as by having Urgot for your AD bottom, everything has to be rethought again. While ultimately I think TheYango has a very salient point, the exceptions are so numerous that it should be treated as a point of thought rather than as a hard rule.

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On July 08 2012 06:02 Alaric wrote:
Pff, just pick him with Morgana!

More seriously, I'm very curious about the way Arcbound think he should be played.

Also with Ori's damage coming from W now (before ult level 3 it actually out damages her R), I'm feeling hungry for CDR. Which items would you buy for this, assuming you can't rely on having every blue buff? Grail's good but you'd build it from chalice, so the cdr part would come late, I'm wary about DFG since it's range has been nerfed and Ori prefers to stay out of harm's way. Maybe I'll buy more blue pots on her.

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On July 08 2012 01:02 bokeevboke wrote:


not that hard to get a stun off with kennen. he outrades anyone.

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On July 08 2012 07:35 NEOtheONE wrote:


Anivia with 2 1.0 AP ratio moves says Hi. No one outtrades the bird.

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On July 08 2012 06:44 JackDino wrote:

Why in heaven's name would you run 15% aspeed when bloodboil is always up lol.

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On July 08 2012 07:52 koreasilver wrote:
Why would you go boots3 on Nunu jungle? There's no reason to do that over the classic boots1+ward opening.

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On July 08 2012 07:20 Eppa! wrote:
The CDR Mana item that builds into frozen heart is realllllly good on CDR champs. On Orianna you want big items anyway so if you don't want frozen heart don't finish it.

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On July 08 2012 07:57 iCanada wrote:


Isn't that wasting a ton of gold on armor though? I think just biting the bullet and getting Codex earlier would be better.

Also, I dont see the appeal to play Jayce over Nidalee... Their kits very very similar, just like... you can gank Jayce. I guess he might scale better with AD? I dunno.

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On July 08 2012 02:43 Morfildur wrote:
Wow, just tried jayce and his hammer E must get nerfed soon. Like Jax there is no way to escape him due to his hammer jump and mode switch and gun speed boost and he can dish out lots of physical damage but then does %-based magic damage, so you need to get armor and MR to play against him.

Did i mention that his hammer E also kicks the target away so it can't retaliate in a trade?

Give him a triforce and he should be unstoppable.

Well, maybe it's just my first impression and he's weaker than he seems.

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On July 08 2012 07:57 iCanada wrote:


Isn't that wasting a ton of gold on armor though? I think just biting the bullet and getting Codex earlier would be better.

Also, I dont see the appeal to play Jayce over Nidalee... Their kits very very similar, just like... you can gank Jayce. I guess he might scale better with AD? I dunno.

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On July 08 2012 03:47 TheYango wrote:
So, for a while now, I've been growing more and more skeptical of primary damage items on junglers (e.g. Ghostblade or Wit's). As it stands, I've been feeling that:

1) A team does not need more than 3 major DPS points to teamfight effectively (usually 2 is enough, but some teamcomps are more effective with 3)--and mid, top, and bot AD generally are more well equipped/funded to itemize for that
2) DPS items can't beat supportive items on raw cost-effectiveness--they have to benefit from scaling with other stats in order to really match up, and junglers don't have the income to really benefit from that scaling (melee requires a minimum investment toward survivability stats, and unlike top laners, the lower jungle gold doesn't allow for significant DPS itemization on top of that).

There are some exceptions based on team-comps or on specific champions (e.g. the timing of Brutalizer makes it a very efficient small investment for Lee Sin or Nocturne early game, though not necessarily upgrading to Ghostblade), and DPS items still obviously make sense in solo queue since you cannot always rely on your DPS carries to actually be capable of doing the damage they're supposed to.

Thoughts?

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On July 08 2012 08:21 JackDino wrote:

Jayce hard to gank aswell, gets free mr/arm if bruiser, transform gives movespeed, that accelerate shit gives movespeed and he has a knockback.

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On July 08 2012 03:47 TheYango wrote:
So, for a while now, I've been growing more and more skeptical of primary damage items on junglers (e.g. Ghostblade or Wit's). As it stands, I've been feeling that:

1) A team does not need more than 3 major DPS points to teamfight effectively (usually 2 is enough, but some teamcomps are more effective with 3)--and mid, top, and bot AD generally are more well equipped/funded to itemize for that
2) DPS items can't beat supportive items on raw cost-effectiveness--they have to benefit from scaling with other stats in order to really match up, and junglers don't have the income to really benefit from that scaling (melee requires a minimum investment toward survivability stats, and unlike top laners, the lower jungle gold doesn't allow for significant DPS itemization on top of that).

There are some exceptions based on team-comps or on specific champions (e.g. the timing of Brutalizer makes it a very efficient small investment for Lee Sin or Nocturne early game, though not necessarily upgrading to Ghostblade), and DPS items still obviously make sense in solo queue since you cannot always rely on your DPS carries to actually be capable of doing the damage they're supposed to.

Thoughts?

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On July 08 2012 09:04 Slayer91 wrote:


Yeah I've been thinking that for a while now. There just isn't enough gold in the jungle to get any amount of DPS because you won't be tanky enough. The mid wants your blue and wraiths, the bot wants your golems, and red, that only leaves the wolves consistently for you after your first couple of clears. Assuming not too many deaths going on the amount of farm from lanes isnt that high, and you can't afford to farm your jungle a lot to do your job. The tank jungle is just going to become more and more prominent now, any kind of "bruisers" really tend to just go top lane.

I'm still destroying whenever I jungle udyr though, maybe he clears creeps fast enough and moves around the map fast enough that he can get away with it.

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