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[G] PvP HerO's Safe Stargate Opener

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
 
 DarkblueRH   United States. July 07 2012 18:27. Posts 141
Profile # 
[image loading]

So, before I begin. Day[9] recently released a daily on this build but I figured that I'd create a text version as Day[9] doesn't exactly transcribe the build and it's much easier to comprehend in text form rather than trying to copy the video. At least in my opinion. Also, this is my first strategy post so be easy.

Overview:
The overall idea of this build and why I find it to be so intriguing is that if it is performed well, your biggest fear only lies within the mirror. I.e. when your opponent also opens Stargate. In this case the person who was the most greedy with their Stargate timing usually obtains the offensive stance while the player with the later Stargate is placed into the defensive stance. All other early possibilities seem to be well accounted for with this build and I shall go into further detail about that below. This build seems to create a PvP that is, as coined by Day[9], "Not Bullshit!"

The Build Order:
+ Show Spoiler +
9 Pylon
3x Chrono Boost on Probes when Pylon completes
13 Gateway
After planting your Gateway is your queue to scout for proxies if it's a 2-player map. Don't bother scouting at all if it's a 4-player map. If you're not comfortable with that, you can still go scout your opponent now, just be out of his base by ~4:20.
15 2x Assimilator (Yes, TWO Assimilators)
17 Pylon
Both Assimilators should be finishing around this time. Put only two probes in each.
You're going to have a small probe cut here to get the cyber up on time.

17 Cybernetics Core
18 Zealot
When you start this Zealot, that is your queue to fill both Assimilators up to 3 probes each.
22 Start Warpgate Tech(2x Chrono Boost)
22 Sentry**
25 Pylon
27 Zealot
29 Stargate
30 Gateway
31 Sentry
32 Pylon
34 Phoenix (Chrono Boost)
36 Robotics Facility
If you've got your gas timings correct. You should be able to immediately begin the second Phoenix after dropping the Robotics Facility.

**When your first sentry completes, this is your queue to send a probe out to be at your opponent's base at 5:00. Around when this sentry completes, your opponent should be just leaving his base with his first stalker so evade the direct attack path. (If they went for a 12gate and chrono boosted their stalker, they could only at best be half-way across the map at this point)

Move out when your second Phoenix completes. You should be able to scout their entire base, as well as kill 2 probes.

Chrono Boost out a total of 3 Phoenix. Your Robotics Facility should finish around the same time that your 3rd Phoenix completes. Build an Immortal and continue on with the game as if it's a standard 2gate Robo. All you needed from your Stargate was those 3 phoenix. Don't build any more than these 3 phoenix, you can do all that you'll ever need to with just 3. You can kill probes in 1 volley and sentries in 2.


Defending in the Early-Game:
+ Show Spoiler +
The beauty of opening with a Zealot -> Sentry -> Zealot -> Sentry is that when you're on defense, you've got a GREAT position to trap units and block units from going up your ramp.

The key to defending in the early-game is to use these units as a wall. A barrier of sorts that will disallow any units from going up your ramp.

[image loading]
You can snag 3 Stalker rushes oh so beautifully with this build for some satisfying free kills.

If you desire to use Force Field to trap a unit(s) in, you MUST have your sentries and zealots positioned so that the now trapped unit cannot escape up onto the high-ground. No reason to give that stalker you're trying to kill a free pass to just run past your units and scout all inside your base or snag a few probe kills.

Your biggest fear will be if your opponent ever warps in on your high-ground. Using this build, if a 4gating player ever gets a warp-in round on your high-ground, unless you're MC... Consider the game already lost.


How to React...:
+ Show Spoiler +
How to React to 4gate/3gate All-ins/Pressure:
+ Show Spoiler +
The best possible manner which I have found to deal with this sort of extremely early gateway pressure is to definitively scout it coming before it ever happens. This can be done in a way which Day9 points out in his daily... If your opponent is going to 4gate/3gate you, he's going to have his units out on the map at 5:00 as he must plant his pylon on your side of the map by 5:20 in order to have it up when Warpgate completes at 5:45. If you go up his ramp at 5:00 you'll get there at a time where his first zealot/stalker are on your side of the map defending his probe and his 2nd stalker won't complete until like ~5:05 so you should have free reign over his entire base if he's being aggressive. In short... If he's being aggressive with warpgates really early in the game, he will have no units at his base at 5:00. If he DOES have units at the top of his ramp, he's NOT 4gating. (They can have a stalker out at 5:00 back at home if they're 3gating you but it'll only be 1 stalker)

If he is 4gating you, you'll know before the Stargate completes... Cancel it, drop 3rd and/or 4th gate (You can likely just match your opponent's #). Get ready to FF anything that's gonna try to come up your ramp. Chrono UNITS from your 2 standing gateways and DON'T GET SUPPLY BLOCKED! It's harder than it sounds to not get supply blocked here, pay attention! You want to force his first warp-in on the low-ground. By the time the 2nd warp-in comes you should still have a 3rd FF or a 3rd sentry out for your 4th FF.

*Only do this if you're a bonafide pro gamer*+ Show Spoiler +
If you know that he JUST! warped in units, you have 32 seconds (~20 seconds if chrono boost is used) that you can use to allow 1-2 units from your opponent up your ramp, then kill them before warp-gates are back up so that he won't have vision when his warp gates are back up.


Alternative if you didn't manage to scout his base at 5:00
+ Show Spoiler +
The 4gate will come while you're in the midst of building your 1st phoenix and around when you're wanting to drop your Robotics Facility. At this time you have 2 zealots, 2 sentries, 2 gateways and your Warp Gate about 20 seconds from completion. Force Field lasts 15 in-game seconds. You have 3 of them... If he's building a pylon on the low-ground, you must stop him from gaining vision of your high-ground at all costs. You should have plenty of time with your 3 Force Fields to still build the Robotics Facility, complete your first phoenix, drop a 3rd gateway and warp in as many sentries as you can afford. Do NOT build the 2nd phoenix, you need the gas for a 3rd sentry. Use your first phoenix to scout his base to be sure he's not just faking you out with a 1gate expand.


Keep the ramp Force Fielded... Build units. When you've stabilized, get colossus because he's likely camping the bottom of your ramp with a sentry. Once you're out, expand and continue as normal.


How to React to a FAKE 4gate/3gate All-ins/Pressure that happens to be a 1gate Expand:
+ Show Spoiler +
To be honest, this much is a bit un-explored for me as it doesn't happen all too much. The problem with opening with 2 Zealots and 2 Sentries is that it's very difficult to be on the offensive with them; so if your opponent knows your style they could very well just Nexus first. You should be able to scout and see that what you're facing is an expansion and not a 4gate with your Phoenix or with that probe at 5:00 early enough to react accordingly though.

This reaction could be either expanding yourself if you saw their expansion early enough. Or you could gear up for an immortal/zealot/sentry/phoenix bust. This bust is very powerful because a fast expanding player will be relying on sentries for defense. But you've got Phoenix which do quite well vs sentries.

You'd essentially boil down the fight to your sentry/zealot/immortal army vs his stalker/zealot army. And with your own Force Fields that he cannot break nor prevent from occurring; your army becomes vastly more powerful than his.


How to React vs 1base Blink:
+ Show Spoiler +
You should be able to easily identify if your opponent is going to be heavily aggressive vs you with blink stalkers due to the fact that you've got phoenix in his base!

Build a 3rd gateway, Build the 3rd Phoenix, Chrono Boost out as many Immortals as you possibly can and react to your opponent's movements. Your primary target is catching their observer with your phoenix.

If they poise to set up a contain at the bottom of your ramp. Stay calm, get colossus. And then expand as soon as you're able to. Even if you can't scout it, he must have an expansion or he's already lost the game.

[image loading]


How to React vs Stargate:
+ Show Spoiler +
Again, I feel this is very un-explored within the match-up. With this build, you're getting a decently early Stargate. However, if your opponent probe scouts and reacts to your double gas with a quick Stargate, he can have phoenix out earlier than you will because he just won't build units because he saw that you went zealot -> sentry and cannot be on the offensive. Phoenix battles snowball pretty quickly in favor of the player with even just 1 extra Phoenix.

My preferred response is to play defense and expand. Feel out what your opponent's response is to that and react accordingly. Keep in mind that he has Phoenix of his own so he'll know what you're doing. If you know he's definitely going to all-in you in response to your expansion, building a few cannons is a good idea if you feel you've got the time. They can't be lifted.

If you're the one with the earlier Stargate, be sure you get the first phoenix kill. If you're up on phoenix, you can be aggressive and deter your opponent from making any more Phoenix. Scout what he's doing, and react from here. I still advise to not build more than 3 Phoenix and use them to pick up free damage and keep tabs on his army. The great strength in Phoenix is their scouting, their ability to snag free damage, and their ability to fly over Force Fields. Having more of them doesn't make any of the previously mentioned strengths any stronger in my opinion.


How to React vs Early Robo Builds:
+ Show Spoiler +
This is likely your most desired match-up. Because you've opened phoenix, you've eliminated the possibility of Warp Prisms being scary. So if he opens Robo he's in a bit of a rough spot because you should be able to expand quite safely. If he tries to 1base Colossus you, use your phoenix to soften the colossus during it's trip to your base. If he doesn't have range yet, use Force Field to force the colossus into range of your immortals. And then use your immortals and stalkers to focus fire the colossus.

If he expands. Just expand yourself, harass with your phoenix and move along normally.


How to React vs DT's:
+ Show Spoiler +
What's scary about the DT opener is not the lack of detection. You've got a well timed Robotics Facility, a bunch of sentries, and a phoenix showing you well in advance that DT's are on the way and if they canceled the tech.

What's scary is the threat of an Archon bust up your ramp since you're spread so thin on units. Without the power of Force Field, and given that you only have 2 gates and Immortals aren't all that great vs Zealots... You could be in some REAL trouble just based upon the fact that you could be easily overwhelmed. Luckily we have a solution. A rather simple one.

Zealots aren't ranged, Archons have very short range... What does this mean? If we just wall off our ramp, we auto-win. EZPZ Treat it like it's PvZ and you're defending a baneling bust. Strong Gateway/Cyber wall offs just like old-school PvZ 1 base sentry openers.

If your opponent ops to expand as opposed to attempting to bust your ramp with the DT's, they must do so with an zealot/archon defense. You will NOT be able to punish this expansion as zealot/archon is amazing on defense because of the open space you must traverse and their ability to pre-position for a surround. Your best option is to expand yourself, while building the mentioned gateway wall off at your natural as opposed to the top of your main's ramp. Turtle up, continue to wall off all of your additional bases with anything stronger than a pylon and play defense until 200/200 with colossus. Again... Imagine you're playing PvZ and your opponent has Super Zerglings! If he gets a run-by you lose. If he gets a surround you lose. If he engages you when you're behind a tight wall of strong buildings, you get a free win without losing any units.




Pro/Con Ladder Maps and Why:
+ Show Spoiler +
Good maps to perform this build on are going to be maps which:
1) Allow a lot of safe movement for your phoenix around the map. (Lots of cliffs/walls to fly over to run from stalkers or lots of dead air only space.)
2) Restrict the viability of blink stalker harass. (Because you want to follow-up with Robo tech. Robo tech can have a rough time with blink stalker harass. See Naniwa vs Genius on Cloud Kingdom during GSL Ro16)
3) Minimize the area for which a 4gater's pylon can exist below your ramp. (You ideally want to be in range to FF your ramp AND be attacking pylons on the low ground.)
4) Allows for a 3 building Sim City above a ramp with which to defend your natural expansion from charge/archon builds. (I.e. a PvZ style FFE wall with 3 gateways as opposed to gate/cyber/forge at the edge of a ramp)

Pro:
+ Show Spoiler +
Daybreak LE 1, 2, 3
Ohana LE 1, 2, 3, 4
Condemned Ridge 1, 2, 3
Shakuras Plateau 1, 3, 4

*The #'s next to the maps correspond to the above mentioned features which have deemed this map good for this build. I.e. "1" means that this map allows safe movement for your phoenix.

Con:
+ Show Spoiler +
Cloud Kingdom LE 2, 3
Antiga Shipyard 2, 4
Tal'Darim Altar LE ... Because it's Tal'Darim

*The #'s next to the maps correspond to the opposite effect of the above mentioned pro features. I.e. "1" means that this map does NOT allow safe movement for your phoenix.



Resources:
+ Show Spoiler +
Replay of HerO performing this build: http://drop.sc/216534
Replay of TomBomb vs 1base Colossus: http://drop.sc/227428
Replay of TomBomb vs 1base Blink: http://drop.sc/227429
Replay of TomBomb vs 1base Immortal All-in: http://drop.sc/227430
Day[9] Daily covering the above replay:


Weak Points in the build the posts below will be trying to solve with additional Replays/Theory:
+ Show Spoiler +
Need a replay vs 4gate
Need a replay vs aggressive 2gate pressure (This.)
Last edit: 2012-07-27 01:23:43
RelentlessHeroes.com
Old Post

  Belial88   United States. July 07 2012 18:44. Posts 5217Profile Blog # 
I don't know PvP, but this is an amazing guide in terms of formatting quality and post clarity. Awesome. may need some more reps though (have a rep for each build order and how to react to it would be cool)
Last edit: 2012-07-07 18:45:27
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Old Post

 
 monk   United States. July 07 2012 18:52. Posts 6990
Profile Blog # 
This is a really great build. One piece of constructive criticism I have is that the opening is a bit more unsafe than you're letting on in your guide, especially if you're doing it blindly. If you scout your opponent mining double gas, you shouldn't have problems with pressure, but gateway aggression can be a huge problem. Specifically any gateway aggression that does one or more of the following:
  • Opens with 10 or 11 gate
  • Chronoboosts one of his first 2 stalkers
  • Brings 2 probes to proxy plyons

You will have an incredibly hard time fighting the first zealot + 2 stalker poke, and most likely will have to burn your first force field, thus causing you to lose the game, because you can no longer chain force fields.
Last edit: 2012-07-07 19:34:47
@TL_monk
Old Post

 
 Makuly   Taiwan. July 07 2012 19:13. Posts 51
Profile Blog # 
This build is great HOWEVER as in pvp the coin flip does take its toll. going 1gate stargate will most definitely die to a 4gate/3gate pressure, if you survive it's because the aggressor is bad.
if he goes blind DTs you're screwed as well, going 1gate stargate THEN robo you wont have anything for detection until later on, it's just not possible.

Other than that this build is good! But keep in mind, there is no safe pvp build order im sorry to say
Last edit: 2012-07-07 19:16:04
Old Post

 
 Geiko   France. July 07 2012 19:17. Posts 1606
Profile Blog # 

On July 07 2012 19:13 Makuly wrote:
This build is great HOWEVER as in pvp the coin flip does take its toll. going 1gate stargate will most definitely die to a 4gate/3gate pressure, if you survive it's because the aggressor is bad.
if he goes blind DTs you're screwed as well, going 1gate stargate THEN robo you wont have anything for detection until later on, it's just not possible.

Other than that this build is good! But keep in mind, there is no safe pvp build order im sorry to say


Have you even read the OP ? He specifically adresses all of your points.
geiko.813 (EU)
Old Post

 
 ThaReckoning   United States. July 07 2012 19:24. Posts 189
Profile # 
Great build, been using this on ladder to excellent effect. I've been looking for something with a more non-standard midgame feel to it like this, for a long time. This really hits the pvp spot I've been needing to scratch forever. If you need replays of ~450 point (low) masters on NA doing this, I'd be more than happy to submit any that I have.
If you want to make one goal, to win, you must lose.
Old Post

 
 Lazermonkey   Sweden. July 07 2012 19:59. Posts 1135
Profile # 
I'm using almost only stargate builds in pvp and it's my best match up. Actually, my biggest problem have been proxy warp prism 4-gates. If you move out with your second phenix, they will be in your base about the time when you are at his base with your phoenix. Stargate builds in general and this build specificallly relies so heavily on force fields in order to combat early agression. warp prims are just really evil in that the don't give a shit about them.

The only times I don't die to stuff like that is when I scout the robo proxy(and even then it's kinda hard), which shouldn't really happend unless:
1.) He is stupid and proxies it in a bad place.
2.) You scout around your base, in which case you will maybe show your 1 phoenix and will be in a worse situation vs all other builds compared to if you wouldn't have scouted with your 2 phoenix.

Low/mid masters btw
Last edit: 2012-07-07 19:59:31
Old Post

 
 uLysSeS1   Germany. July 07 2012 23:53. Posts 189
Profile # 

On July 07 2012 19:13 Makuly wrote:
This build is great HOWEVER as in pvp the coin flip does take its toll. going 1gate stargate will most definitely die to a 4gate/3gate pressure, if you survive it's because the aggressor is bad.
if he goes blind DTs you're screwed as well, going 1gate stargate THEN robo you wont have anything for detection until later on, it's just not possible.

Other than that this build is good! But keep in mind, there is no safe pvp build order im sorry to say


you are completely wrong, the only thing that counters this build is a 1 gate fe
derp.
Old Post

 
 Dirichlet   July 07 2012 23:58. Posts 19
Profile # 
Cool guide! Check out Hero's TL replay pack. There is a game where he plays against Inori (I think) where they both open stargate. Hero's immediate response is to cancel his robo, drop a 2nd stargate and expand. It turns into a very interesting macro game.
Old Post

 
 Artisian   United States. July 08 2012 00:40. Posts 90
Profile # 
Very nice. I've been using a similar build, but i couldn't think of a way to hold the dt/archon ramp busts. Thanks for sharing!
Supply is a conspiracy against me...
Old Post

 
 Pylons   Canada. July 08 2012 00:49. Posts 54
Profile # 
I've tried this a few times on the ladder, and with my experience... it doesn't work with the current 2gate robo 6:00-6:30 expand meta
Old Post

 
 Eladen   Slovakia. July 08 2012 01:38. Posts 24
Profile # 
How does this build(or other phoenix openings) hold against 4 gate blink with hallucination? I only faced it once, but got pretty crushed. Is there a way to stop it with this, or is it hardcounter?
Old Post

 
 Braric   Canada. July 08 2012 01:46. Posts 184
Profile # 
I'm going to give credit where credit is due, this is actually MVPTails build, he' was using it on his stream like literally 5-6 months ago way before Hero.

I've been using this build like literally every game, and I've found a really powerful follow up upon entering a macro game is doing a timing attack with 3 Immortals, 3 Voidrays and 3 Colossus off of 7 Gates warping in only zealots until the actual attack in which you commit to pure stalkers, (I've literally never lost with this composition unless I've messed up severely) The phoenix can later be used to lift up any immortals in his composition and it's unbelievably disgusting how fast your army will roll over his.
"Hoodor" -Hodor
Old Post

 
 Xujhan   Canada. July 08 2012 01:46. Posts 65
Profile # 
Just a minor comment about your vs Stargate section:

1gate Stargate isn't a risky build; it still gets enough FFs to hold a 4gate. Moreover, if your opponent scouts you opening double gas and zealot-sentry, there's no risk at all. Also, in a phoenix mirror, I really don't think you want to be cutting phoenixes. Even just three phoenixes represent 450 gas - enough for nine stalkers - and if you let your opponent get a higher phoenix count, they're almost entirely useless.
"I'm so bad at this."
Old Post

 
 Braric   Canada. July 08 2012 01:51. Posts 184
Profile # 

On July 08 2012 01:46 Xujhan wrote:
Just a minor comment about your vs Stargate section:

1gate Stargate isn't a risky build; it still gets enough FFs to hold a 4gate. Moreover, if your opponent scouts you opening double gas and zealot-sentry, there's no risk at all. Also, in a phoenix mirror, I really don't think you want to be cutting phoenixes. Even just three phoenixes represent 450 gas - enough for nine stalkers - and if you let your opponent get a higher phoenix count, they're almost entirely useless.


I actually personally feel like the only hard counter to this opening is really greedy phoenix openings, I'm not to sure how to overcome it yet but I've been toying around with taking a quick expansion while spamming phoenix and using hallucination to scout and later for a timing attack in which you mass hallucinated phoenix with your real phoenix to try and win the air battle.
"Hoodor" -Hodor
Old Post

 
 RaNgeD   United States. July 08 2012 02:06. Posts 654
Profile Blog # 

On July 07 2012 19:13 Makuly wrote:
This build is great HOWEVER as in pvp the coin flip does take its toll. going 1gate stargate will most definitely die to a 4gate/3gate pressure, if you survive it's because the aggressor is bad.
if he goes blind DTs you're screwed as well, going 1gate stargate THEN robo you wont have anything for detection until later on, it's just not possible.

Other than that this build is good! But keep in mind, there is no safe pvp build order im sorry to say


You don't know what you're talking about. This is a great build and you can survive a 4 gate with it quite easily. Because of the early sentry by the time your opponents warpgate is done, you will have 2 forcefields, and once your 2nd forcefield vanishes, you should have a 3rd. It's also really easy to stop DTs since not only are you scouting with the pheonix's, but you're getting an early robo too. And if you position your units well on your ramp, you should be able to forcefield the dts back to give yourself some time if you need it.
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. 1 Corinthians 13:7
Old Post

 
 CecilSunkure   United States. July 08 2012 02:16. Posts 2272
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This isn't really "HerO's" build. I've seen many koreans do this blindly every game of PvP for many months. You also have poor information in the vs DT section, as most players nowadays do a form of a DT expand, not a DT allin as you seem to have assumed.

There's also a few variations of early WG builds than can give the zealot/sentry/zealot/sentry a hard time, for instance a 2 zeal 2 stalker 2 gate, or other similar openings.
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Old Post

 
 Braric   Canada. July 08 2012 02:35. Posts 184
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On July 08 2012 02:16 CecilSunkure wrote:
This isn't really "HerO's" build. I've seen many koreans do this blindly every game of PvP for many months. You also have poor information in the vs DT section, as most players nowadays do a form of a DT expand, not a DT allin as you seem to have assumed.

There's also a few variations of early WG builds than can give the zealot/sentry/zealot/sentry a hard time, for instance a 2 zeal 2 stalker 2 gate, or other similar openings.


Can just pull a few probes to deal with this, building a pylon at the top of ramp to partially wall also helps pretty greatly at denying any probes from getting up your ramp.
"Hoodor" -Hodor
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 DarkblueRH   United States. July 08 2012 03:48. Posts 141
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On July 07 2012 18:44 Belial88 wrote:
I don't know PvP, but this is an amazing guide in terms of formatting quality and post clarity. Awesome. may need some more reps though (have a rep for each build order and how to react to it would be cool)


Thank you ^^. I was actually writing this at 5am last night so I was worried that I'd possibly have come off sounding quite stupidly. Glad that is not the case. I need to update the post to create a more polished product through reading all of these responses and acquiring more replays.

@ThaReckoning - Yes, I would love some of your replays and any replays of anyone who can solve the problems which have been addressed in all of the response posts. Vs Aggressive 4gate and vs Agressive 2gate play is my prime priority at the moment. (Agressive 2gate meaning they're chrono-ing out 2 zealots and like 3-5 stalkers and trying to bust your ramp like THIS.)

----

To combat the criticisms, I am not assuming that HerO is the originator of this build. I merely titled the build in the manner proposed because 1) more people will read this post specifically because a pro player's name is in the title. And 2) HerO was the first player I had personally seen use the SPECIFIC build order of snagging the 2gas before cyber while opening with Stargate. Not only that, Day[9] has a daily showing HerO's variation and the only replay I had available at the time of creating the post was of HerO. My apologies for not taking the time to research who could have possibly been the originator of the build but I had figured it was quite irrelevant. Which indeed it is quite irrelevant.

@Xujhan - 1 gate Stargate on maps without a secondary ramp at the natural or if your opponent just brings 2 probes to build pylons actually should just die to a well executed 4gate as your only real defense (if I'm thinking of the same build) is to deny pylons being built next to your ramp because you won't have enough FF to completely force them out of your base, you need to FF them in and kill units. The 1gate Stargate build I'm referring to is THIS.

@CecilSunkure - If they're expanding with DT's you should most definitely be able to scout that fact, and then expand yourself while creating the mentioned wall at your natural as opposed to on top of your main's ramp. - I've updated the original post with this.

@Braric & Ranged - Please help me provide replays. I believe the two of you are absolutely correct with your counter-arguments to criticisms. But I'd prefer to not simply tell someone, but SHOW them.
RelentlessHeroes.com
Old Post

 
 CecilSunkure   United States. July 08 2012 03:58. Posts 2272
Profile Blog # 

On July 08 2012 02:35 Braric wrote:

Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 02:16 CecilSunkure wrote:
This isn't really "HerO's" build. I've seen many koreans do this blindly every game of PvP for many months. You also have poor information in the vs DT section, as most players nowadays do a form of a DT expand, not a DT allin as you seem to have assumed.

There's also a few variations of early WG builds than can give the zealot/sentry/zealot/sentry a hard time, for instance a 2 zeal 2 stalker 2 gate, or other similar openings.



Can just pull a few probes to deal with this, building a pylon at the top of ramp to partially wall also helps pretty greatly at denying any probes from getting up your ramp.


Probes don't need to get up the ramp. Also any time probes are pulled it means there's a great chance you'll fall behind. Pulling probes is not the "proper" reaction.


On July 08 2012 03:48 DarkblueRH wrote:
@CecilSunkure - If they're expanding with DT's you should most definitely be able to scout that fact, and then expand yourself while creating the mentioned wall at your natural as opposed to on top of your main's ramp. - I've updated the original post with this.

Ah thanks
Last edit: 2012-07-08 03:59:33
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