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| Keirathi United States. July 10 2012 07:34. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
Not sure if its full yet but:
/in
I will not be replaced! |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 10 2012 08:11. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 10 2012 08:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
This is a NMM Hopeless. Bugs is just extremely creative with his naming.
Hopeless meant Newbie, not Normal. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 11 2012 06:54. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
##Vote marvellosity
So obvious. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 11 2012 06:59. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 11 2012 06:57 marvellosity wrote:... if all the people I've hosted/coached/watched from the Newbie games gang up on me, I shall be rather displeased D:
Don't worry, I only hold grudges until Day 3. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 06:24. Posts 3617 | Profile # | |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 07:11. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 07:07 Vivax wrote:
We should lynch Mattchew cause his avatar is a zerg.
Keirathi is the serial killer.I know it.
You caught me. Game over  |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 07:30. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote:
hey all, I'm happy to report that I rolled town again.
lots of familiar faces for me in this game, which is a bonus. I think I've played with most of the people here, and I've read a game Keirathi was in. let's kill scum.
Which one? I hope you mean XIX and not VIII :o |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 07:57. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 07:33 s0Lstice wrote:
yea XIX
were you scum in VIII?
Nah I was VT, I just got caught up in a desperate situation arguing for a dumb policy. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 08:19. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
sciberbia wrote:
I'm not a big fan of lynching lurkers. Obviously, lurking hurts town, but I don't think lurking is all that alignment-indicative. Seeing as our goal is to lynch scum, I will only give slight preference to lynching the lurker over the active player, everything else being even.
I'm not convinced that masons, millers, or roleblockers should claim, but I've never played in a setup quite like this before and I haven't thought much about it. I'll read up on the issue and see if I agree with you guys.
Well, ideally since this is not a newbie game, we shouldn't have townies lurking much. Its a bit different in newbie games because people don't really know how to play, and since everyone here should have a decent idea of how to play, then people lurking is strategy rather than ignorance.
That's not to say that I think lynching lurkers is a particularly good idea, but looking into lurkers has more merit in this type of game than a newbie one.
As far as claims, I myself haven't played in a game where masons/roleblockers claimed, so I'll have to look into it, but I agree with the points made about RB'ers so far, so that at least makes sense. An unclaimed miller causes more confusion than its worth though, and I can't really think of a situation in which a miller wouldn't want to claim. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 08:49. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 08:45 talismania wrote:
mmm safe to say RB regardless of claiming should NOT use their power unless it makes sense (lategame, etc). I still don't see the harm in claiming given the threat of protection.
hell if we have millers, masons, and a rber in public this game shouldn't be that hard. Course if we had all those we probably wouldn't have doctors or medics so ups and downs I suppose.
We don't have doctors anyways. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 11:54. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote:
Keirathi, assuming you are still around...
why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan?
Sorry was getting dinner.
I was verbose because I have some shared experience with sciberbia, whom I was replying to. I know that most (all?) of his TL mafia experience was in newbie games, and the dynamic is just different when you can assume that people know how to play the game.
As far as talismania's plan, I feel like it makes it too easy for mafia to blend in. The more townies you have making arguments against other townies, the easier you can push mislynches and not have to take any blame for them. There are other things wrong with it, but Mattchew and austin beat me to it. No need rehashing what they said.
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| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 15:06. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
I don't think anyone is saying roleblocker should never, under any circumstances, use their power.
But it needs to be used with extreme caution because you probably have a higher chance (or at the very least, equal) of blocking a town blue than blocking a KP if you just pick randomly.
There are certainly situations where it can be a useful power, of course, but its much safer just to not use it until you have good, solid reads. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 15:38. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 15:14 DropBear wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 15:06 Keirathi wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying roleblocker should never, under any circumstances, use their power.
But it needs to be used with extreme caution because you probably have a higher chance (or at the very least, equal) of blocking a town blue than blocking a KP if you just pick randomly.
There are certainly situations where it can be a useful power, of course, but its much safer just to not use it until you have good, solid reads.
People have in fact said that it shouldn't be used period. Gonzawtalismania
Then I completely disagree with them. I'm still not positive they mean that there is a never a situation where RB can be useful, but if they think that then I encourage them to think harder.
On July 12 2012 15:14 sciberbia wrote:
@keirathi, @Dropbear, @Risen
Do you guys have any suspicions yet? Maybe you could comment on my post about risen/marv or about gonzaw's accusations of risen/strongandbig/Mattchew? This thread is too quiet for my liking -- please share some of your thoughts.
No, I really don't have much to add.
First impressions mean virtually nothing in this game. Its all about pattern recognition and connecting the dots.
The only things that have thrown up yellow flags so far were people proposing less than optimal (read: bad) policy plans, ie talis, but I don't feel that was necessarily out of a scum mindset, just didn't think it through very well. However, like I said, its about patterns in behavior which is why I keep notes the way I do (which you saw in NMM XIX).
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| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 12 2012 17:25. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 17:21 Vivax wrote:##unvote strongandbig
##Vote Miltonkram
Well you said you were watching something on tv yesterday and would start calling out scum soon, so I thought you were monitoring the game. Anyway, that was a pretty informative post about marv, you have my seal of approval for unlurking. Now I wanna see something from Milton  .
He said when he joined that he was going to be afk for 12-24 hours when the game started. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 13 2012 03:33. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote: pardon me for some half-assed musing:+ Show Spoiler +since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others).
So I was going back through the thread looking for more information, when this leaped out at me. When I read it the first time through, I didn't think anything of it because I don't have previous experience with you, but if you propose the same plan in every game you play in, then how is it "half-assed musing" this time?
It feels like you're pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan. And why, as a townie, are you half-assing things anyways? |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 13 2012 06:00. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 04:02 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 03:37 talismania wrote:
it's half-assed because of the form it took. what I've pushed before is "everyone make case" or "everyone list impressions" and the like. I was trying to think of a way to beat the day one doldrums somewhat and thought of that on the spot and posted it. I figured no one would agree to it but at the very least it would stir the pot.
are you actively lurking or is it a coincidence that you respond quickly when you are mentioned and then are quiet in other times
Err what?
On July 13 2012 02:20 talismania wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax
the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said?
On July 13 2012 03:04 talismania wrote:+ Show Spoiler +if you mean this
On July 13 2012 01:39 DropBear wrote:Vivax I am very confused as the reasoning behind your voting so far. Why did you choose strongandbig initially?
Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 18:30 Vivax wrote:
@ NSH
It's cause of a habit. I just tend to expect links in underlined words <_<.
Back to the topic:
##unvote strongandbig
Very informative post about marv there.
Wanted to vote Milton next but he posted.
He tries to make himself pretty transparent by posting his games. It's a good sign, but nothing decisive.
Speaking of meta, sciberbia doesn't look good based on that.I was with him in two games and I feel like he's being different in this one.
s0lstice already pointed out the missing fast posts we're used to see from scib at the start of the game.
That alone is forgivable given the posted reasons. But the overall gut feeling is still bad cause of the overall style.
What do you mean by an informative post? Cos he made a case he must be town or something? What are the differences in sciberbia you talk about?
then I don't see you calling him suspicious, but just asking him questions. Implied suspicion I'll give you, but not calling him out as being suspicious by any means. Also good to know you're just as angry as in bastard 2 :-)
On July 13 2012 03:37 talismania wrote:+ Show Spoiler +it's half-assed because of the form it took. what I've pushed before is "everyone make case" or "everyone list impressions" and the like. I was trying to think of a way to beat the day one doldrums somewhat and thought of that on the spot and posted it. I figured no one would agree to it but at the very least it would stir the pot.
Those posts are reasonably close together, and his response to me was the only one where he had been mentioned. Granted, its just the last 3 posts in his filter before you made this accusation, but it seems like a pretty baseless accusation.
Pre-Post edit: sorry I'm replying to this late. I've been working through the 75 posts that were made while I was asleep/at work making notes.
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| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 13 2012 06:14. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 05:46 gonzaw wrote:Keirathi:
Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 08:19 Keirathi wrote:
sciberbia wrote:
I'm not a big fan of lynching lurkers. Obviously, lurking hurts town, but I don't think lurking is all that alignment-indicative. Seeing as our goal is to lynch scum, I will only give slight preference to lynching the lurker over the active player, everything else being even.
I'm not convinced that masons, millers, or roleblockers should claim, but I've never played in a setup quite like this before and I haven't thought much about it. I'll read up on the issue and see if I agree with you guys.
Well, ideally since this is not a newbie game, we shouldn't have townies lurking much. Its a bit different in newbie games because people don't really know how to play, and since everyone here should have a decent idea of how to play, then people lurking is strategy rather than ignorance. That's not to say that I think lynching lurkers is a particularly good idea, but looking into lurkers has more merit in this type of game than a newbie one. As far as claims, I myself haven't played in a game where masons/roleblockers claimed, so I'll have to look into it, but I agree with the points made about RB'ers so far, so that at least makes sense. An unclaimed miller causes more confusion than its worth though, and I can't really think of a situation in which a miller wouldn't want to claim.
This post seems a very "I'm trying to contribute here!" one. Spends WAY too much time talking about lurkers and policies, and doesn't even take any interesting stance in the mason/RBer issue (i.e if he had an interesting stance it would be actually a contribution). He just spouts some fluffy stuff about them that only serves to make his post bigger
Way too much time? I guess I'm sorry that I'm not Mattchew and can get my full thoughts out in a 1 liner.
On July 13 2012 05:46 gonzaw wrote:solstice called him out as "verbose" (which was right):
Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 11:54 Keirathi wrote:
On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote:
Keirathi, assuming you are still around...
why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan?
Sorry was getting dinner. I was verbose because I have some shared experience with sciberbia, whom I was replying to. I know that most (all?) of his TL mafia experience was in newbie games, and the dynamic is just different when you can assume that people know how to play the game. As far as talismania's plan, I feel like it makes it too easy for mafia to blend in. The more townies you have making arguments against other townies, the easier you can push mislynches and not have to take any blame for them. There are other things wrong with it, but Mattchew and austin beat me to it. No need rehashing what they said.
Yet he keeps doing the same thing. He's still "verbose", and his post doesn't contribute shit at all. He says "I'm verbose because of something irrelevant" and "Rehash of what other people said". Not only that, he acknowledges himself that he's rehashing what other people said....yet that doesn't prevent him from posting it and doesn't prevent him from trying to find something else to contribute.
I was specifically asked what I thought about the plan. I'm not sure what you really wanted me to say. I came up with an argument against it that was similar to what Mattchew said, but different enough that I thought it was worth posting.
On July 13 2012 05:46 gonzaw wrote:His other posts don't call too much attention, yet then he comes out of nowhere with this:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 03:33 Keirathi wrote:
On July 12 2012 08:50 talismania wrote: pardon me for some half-assed musing:+ Show Spoiler +since we've got majority lynch to deal with, what about some sort of nomination system? I don't like how majority allows townies and scum alike to save their opinions on people, especially day one and just hop on whatever bandwagon is happening near the end of the day. It would be nice if, say, 24 hours in everyone puts up a list of three players they want to see in consideration for the lynch and reasons why. Then all that gets tallied up or something and we decide between the popular choices. Actually you wouldn't even need to tally or enforce that. Just having everyone put up three names with reasons should be good enough to move discussion towards a consensus lynch candidate or two (hush s&b yes I am and always will try to get people to post their impressions of others).
So I was going back through the thread looking for more information, when this leaped out at me. When I read it the first time through, I didn't think anything of it because I don't have previous experience with you, but if you propose the same plan in every game you play in, then how is it "half-assed musing" this time? It feels like you're pre-emptively making an excuse for a bad plan. And why, as a townie, are you half-assing things anyways?
...???? This is so out of place it's not funny. Like, Vivax had 2 votes on him and a case against him, some other FoSes were flowing around (marv on S&B at first, then Vivax on Mattchew, etc); yet when Kei posts he thinks it's more useful to discuss tali's plan again? Not only that, but discuss something so pointless and irrelevant like tali's "motive" for making the plan because it was "half-assed" or some shit? Like....he completely ignored everything else in the thread, wtf?
Yea, I admit this was a bit weird to come back and comment on something from 16 hours ago. I was just getting in from work and catching up on the ~70 posts that I missed while I was sleeping and at work. But my initial no comment on it was out of ignorance of his meta of proposing a similar plan every game, which was one of the first things pointed out in my catching up of the thread.
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| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 13 2012 06:55. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 06:18 marvellosity wrote:
Keirathi, can you stop catching up and provide your views on a person or two?
Certainly.
strongandbig
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote:Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET.
Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] +The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that.
NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you.+ Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy.
He comes in by leaving himself an excuse for his inactivity that he can fall back on later, then proceeds to lay out basically an entire case based on pure speculation.
On July 12 2012 20:46 strongandbig wrote:
Plus he even referred to the fact that he does this as town and I find him scummy for it in the same post where he did it.
So why are you letting him have a free pass for doing it this time?
Together, I feel this is a decent case for him being scum but his recent reply to gonzaw's post gives him so townie cred back in my eye. I'm still keeping an eye on him.
DropBear
I'm mainly suspicious here of his vote for Vivax.
On July 13 2012 02:58 DropBear wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 02:20 talismania wrote:
On July 13 2012 02:00 DropBear wrote:
##Vote Vivax
the hell? any reasons beyond what marv said?
I called him out as being suss last page, do you read boy?
When his previous calling out of Vivax was simply asking questions + Show Spoiler +
On July 13 2012 01:39 DropBear wrote:Vivax I am very confused as the reasoning behind your voting so far. Why did you choose strongandbig initially?
Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 18:30 Vivax wrote:
@ NSH
It's cause of a habit. I just tend to expect links in underlined words <_<.
Back to the topic:
##unvote strongandbig
Very informative post about marv there.
Wanted to vote Milton next but he posted.
He tries to make himself pretty transparent by posting his games. It's a good sign, but nothing decisive.
Speaking of meta, sciberbia doesn't look good based on that.I was with him in two games and I feel like he's being different in this one.
s0lstice already pointed out the missing fast posts we're used to see from scib at the start of the game.
That alone is forgivable given the posted reasons. But the overall gut feeling is still bad cause of the overall style.
What do you mean by an informative post? Cos he made a case he must be town or something? What are the differences in sciberbia you talk about?
As an aside, its pretty frustrating that so many arguments in this game are based on meta. As someone new to TL, I feel like I am disadvantaged when you all have so much extra information on each other. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 13 2012 07:24. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote:
Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced
Thats because they were kind of forced. I was specifically asked to make reads, so I responded with the two single scummiest things I've noticed.
But I have a method to the way I play this game. Take a look at this. I take notes like this for a reason: so I can recognize patterns in people's play, rather than harping on one or two scummy things they've done. That's why I'm hesitant to make hard reads early. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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| Keirathi United States. July 13 2012 08:01. Posts 3617 | Profile # |
On July 13 2012 07:43 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 07:24 Keirathi wrote:
On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote:
Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced
Thats because they were kind of forced. I was specifically asked to make reads, so I responded with the two single scummiest things I've noticed. But I have a method to the way I play this game. Take a look at this. I take notes like this for a reason: so I can recognize patterns in people's play, rather than harping on one or two scummy things they've done. That's why I'm hesitant to make hard reads early.
So you know that you do this as town, whats to stop you from doing so as scum?
That's the kind of WIFOM crap that gets new people lynched for no good reason. There's been so much arguing about meta in this game so far. The real problem is that you just don't have a meta for me, so you can pick apart things I say without having all this other history to contradict you.
The same argument could be made for literally every argument that someone was town because of how they played in the past, including you. |
| | My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi |
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