On July 14 2012 10:06 fabiano wrote: It's impossible to recreate BW core mechanics in a 3D world. Look at SC2 mutalisk, there is no muta-micro in that game, not even when you could stack units.
thats not really true.
Do those Mutas actually work like in BW? In BW you had to constantly move them because if they stopped, they'd have to accelerate again, making them vulnerable. In SC2BW it seems to me that their acceleration is simply nearly instantenous, is that the case?
floor exercise Canada. July 16 2012 23:04. Posts 5505
When i heard SC2 would come out i was really psyched. When i got my Beta key i was really happy.
But i never thought that SC2 would kill BroodWar. It's just sad. I'm 27 years old and i just had my eyes full of tears when i read that Nada was retireing so i don't know what will happens if i can't find anymore VODs of the greatest game of all time.
Brood War is so unique... I mean i watch a lot of E-sport. Sometimes 3+Hour a day. But i mainly do other thing with my other screen. I just watched a lot of IPL footage on SC2 and playing another game while doing so. But when i start hearing Korean and loud music, i just turn my head on the other screen because i'm happy to have a Brood War match in my playlist. And i just forget completely what i was doing. And i watch... I don't even understand a word because i have NO knowledge of Korean. Even after watching it for so many years... I was in school i was already watching brood war.
I played 50hours a week, sometimes more. I mean... SC2 is great imo but it's not Brood War. The GSL in not an OSL. And PL is so much more passioning than GSTL. When i watch BW i'm shouting, i'm having reaction. When i watch SC2... it's just basic a blank stare for most of the time (except of course some of the great great games) but it's rarely the case.
When i just see the battles in BW. Just for exemple the zalot FLOODING in OSL 2011 in match 2 Flash vs Jangbi (la mancha ?) it's not the same as SC2.
I just don't know what to think about brood war dying (or retiring if we can say so for a game). But i'm just sad that Brood war will stop. I guess i'm gonna try to find as much youtube video of BW i can and stock them so i can watch them again in a few years.
Really hoped that the Brood war mods could bring us a "HD Brood War" and have tournaments on it. That's just a portion of my childhood that is disapering.
I just...
Please don't kill Brood War is all i can say that make any sense. Just... Don't.
But i never thought that SC2 would kill BroodWar. It's just sad.
Please don't kill Brood War is all i can say that make any sense. Just... Don't.
I know the topic isent about this, but i really want to stress out that SC2 has nothing to do with BW demise, even if SC2 did not exist the game would be in the exact same situation.
The reason for its death is the declining viewership in Korea for Brood War, it is why sponsors have been running away. The average korean gamer has generally been more into MMOs and MOBA style games the last couple of years, there arent that many RTS fans, which is also why SC2 isent tearing it up viewership wise in Korea, but at least in west it is a big hit.
Instead of looking at SC2 like its some evil killer, look at as the only way many of your favorite BW players can find work and sponsors again to get paid for what they do best, what other RTS could they possibly transition to? Remember that many of them do not even have any qualifications to find good work, some might transition to another genre (LoL) but most would have to look for low end jobs. Instead they will get to go to USA for MLG and Europe for Dreamhack and continue their dreams, not everyone got paid like Flash and Jaedong.
Please don't kill Brood War is all i can say that make any sense. Just... Don't.
I know the topic isent about this, but i really want to stress out that SC2 has nothing to do with BW demise, even if SC2 did not exist the game would be in the exact same situation.
The reason for its death is the declining viewership in Korea for Brood War, it is why sponsors have been running away. The average korean gamer has generally been more into MMOs and MOBA style games the last couple of years, there arent that many RTS fans, which is also why SC2 isent tearing it up viewership wise in Korea, but at least in west it is a big hit.
Instead of looking at SC2 like its some evil killer, look at as the only way many of your favorite BW players can find work and sponsors again to get paid for what they do best, what other RTS could they possibly transition to? Remember that many of them do not even have any qualifications to find good work, some might transition to another genre (LoL) but most would have to look for low end jobs. Instead they will get to go to USA for MLG and Europe for Dreamhack and continue their dreams.
To me that is at least comfronting
Maybe my english is too bad to express what i wanted to say but i never meant to say that SC2 was evil. I wanted to say that even if i'm glad to watch SC2, i was really psyched to watch some BW from time to time because it's just perfect.
And i'm sad that BW is dying even if i have SC2 to comfort my evenings.
But i never thought that SC2 would kill BroodWar. It's just sad.
Please don't kill Brood War is all i can say that make any sense. Just... Don't.
I know the topic isent about this, but i really want to stress out that SC2 has nothing to do with BW demise, even if SC2 did not exist the game would be in the exact same situation.
The reason for its death is the declining viewership in Korea for Brood War, it is why sponsors have been running away. The average korean gamer has generally been more into MMOs and MOBA style games the last couple of years, there arent that many RTS fans, which is also why SC2 isent tearing it up viewership wise in Korea, but at least in west it is a big hit.
Instead of looking at SC2 like its some evil killer, look at as the only way many of your favorite BW players can find work and sponsors again to get paid for what they do best, what other RTS could they possibly transition to? Remember that many of them do not even have any qualifications to find good work, some might transition to another genre (LoL) but most would have to look for low end jobs. Instead they will get to go to USA for MLG and Europe for Dreamhack and continue their dreams.
To me that is at least comfronting
Maybe my english is too bad to express what i wanted to say but i never meant to say that SC2 was evil. I wanted to say that even if i'm glad to watch SC2, i was really psyched to watch some BW from time to time because it's just perfect.
And i'm sad that BW is dying even if i have SC2 to comfort my evenings.
Oh that is okay, its just that some people view SC2 as some sort of cancer that is the sole cause of BW demise, it tends to cause unwarranted hatred towards a game and its misplaced.
Just look at it as Flash playing SC2 as Daigo playing MvC3 or Justin Wong playing Mortal Kombat 9. Players like these should be able to live off their talents, not just today but for the rest of their lives, they deserve it.
Afterall who knows what Flash and Jaedong are doing in 10 years, hopefully playing Warcraft 4 or some other RTS and earning a good living.
My point is that its much more confronting to view things from that angle than Brood War, my favorite game of all time, is pretty much about to die. The spirit will never die, and that is the players, fans and our memories.
On July 16 2012 23:45 FFW_Rude wrote: When i heard SC2 would come out i was really psyched. When i got my Beta key i was really happy.
But i never thought that SC2 would kill BroodWar. It's just sad. I'm 27 years old and i just had my eyes full of tears when i read that Nada was retireing so i don't know what will happens if i can't find anymore VODs of the greatest game of all time.
Brood War is so unique... I mean i watch a lot of E-sport. Sometimes 3+Hour a day. But i mainly do other thing with my other screen. I just watched a lot of IPL footage on SC2 and playing another game while doing so. But when i start hearing Korean and loud music, i just turn my head on the other screen because i'm happy to have a Brood War match in my playlist. And i just forget completely what i was doing. And i watch... I don't even understand a word because i have NO knowledge of Korean. Even after watching it for so many years... I was in school i was already watching brood war.
I played 50hours a week, sometimes more. I mean... SC2 is great imo but it's not Brood War. The GSL in not an OSL. And PL is so much more passioning than GSTL. When i watch BW i'm shouting, i'm having reaction. When i watch SC2... it's just basic a blank stare for most of the time (except of course some of the great great games) but it's rarely the case.
When i just see the battles in BW. Just for exemple the zalot FLOODING in OSL 2011 in match 2 Flash vs Jangbi (la mancha ?) it's not the same as SC2.
I just don't know what to think about brood war dying (or retiring if we can say so for a game). But i'm just sad that Brood war will stop. I guess i'm gonna try to find as much youtube video of BW i can and stock them so i can watch them again in a few years.
Really hoped that the Brood war mods could bring us a "HD Brood War" and have tournaments on it. That's just a portion of my childhood that is disapering.
I just...
Please don't kill Brood War is all i can say that make any sense. Just... Don't.
Blizzard could release the codes to broodwar and made it open source for us die hards to tinker with the engine but until now there is no sign that blizzard is going to do anything that is going to help broodwar live a little longer . I have already said something about ID being a good company with john carmak at the front . Here's hoping blizzard despite being corrupted by frost mourne not forget that there is still a community no matter how small it is wanting to mod their favourite game with better sprites and play broodwar . Same old guards will never change talk to cs 1.6 players and they still will call cs 1.6 best fps game in the world which I agree to an extent.
Writing or coding a game like broodwar in another game engine is not going to be accomplish by a single person and it requires a team to do it and hopefully one day we could bring the best coders and fans around the globe to make a broodwar 2.0 . I am back in programming and despite me being at script kiddie level back again I hope I will probably be able to make a similar game like broodwar in my life time .
Some may disagree with me but I do believe sc2 had a play in the demise of broodwar and I will keep believing it because over the course of history and experience I have learned from just being a newbie on tl.net. Nothing has ever hit the bw community with such bad luck and timing that everything in this world wants the game to die really badly .
I am really frustrated with the way things have been going and how although really rare even though the games at proleague have been really bad and than suddenly pops out games like Bisu v Last on Neo Jade . Only reinforces me that this game should have foothold in our heart and despite it not being played at it's highest level .
I will continue to watch,support any scene that is still practically is still playing broodwar . You can kill the body but you will never destroy the soul in it . Broodwar will live long and I have faith in it.
Blizzard could release the codes to broodwar and made it open source for us die hards to tinker with the engine but until now there is no sign that blizzard is going to do anything that is going to help broodwar live a little longer .
They can't because the game is still selling.
But that's a shame. But the BW mod is still pretty cool with a lot of the "bugs" that existed in BW and made its gameplay so awesome (and awesomly hard lol).
I know the topic isent about this, but i really want to stress out that SC2 has nothing to do with BW demise, even if SC2 did not exist the game would be in the exact same situation.
Why would you stress something you know nothing about?? You have to be very ignorant to not even know the basics about these things. You should not even be talking about them. SC2 isn't the entire story, but the whole foreign community that never jumped to another game ever before suddenly moving to SC2 in less than a month and leaving the BW community crippled? The broadcasting arguments? Just the fact the SC2 had SC in the title and took away so many long time SC fans? How can you post something this stupid? Please just stop, you don't even know what you are talking about... BW would be in much better condition today if SC2 had not been released. Would it be in great condition? Maybe not, but we would still have a proscene that is for sure. Blizzard only stood to lose money to IP rights issues because they were releasing SC2, or they would have brought it up way earlier. If they were not releasing SC2 they would have let things continue as normal, free publicity etc.
It is a matter of convenience to try to easy a guilty conscience to say SC2 had nothing to do with BW's demise. Whether you can forgive it for that or not is a completely different matter, but to say it didn't happen is just a lie and trying to rewrite history.
Last edit: 2012-07-17 00:53:15
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
MattBarry United States. July 17 2012 07:35. Posts 1023
On July 15 2012 09:06 ImbaTosS wrote: I don't know if anyone has any use for these, but they really show just how superb BW is for it's age. Look at what it could have reasonably looked like!
Brood War is the best RTS ever made. I could not imagine spending as much time on any other game. I could not imagine me sacrificing as much for any other game. I despair the market demands that seem to be killing it in a never ending search for more pixels and greater reach in society. These are dark ages for Brood War, so one can only hope for its renaissance. I salute Brood War and this minority that we've become. + Show Spoiler [Let's just make one thing clear] +
On July 16 2012 23:56 Tyree wrote: The reason for its death is the declining viewership in Korea for Brood War, it is why sponsors have been running away. The average korean gamer has generally been more into MMOs and MOBA style games the last couple of years, there arent that many RTS fans, which is also why SC2 isent tearing it up viewership wise in Korea, but at least in west it is a big hit.
Augh... it would appear as though that the one poster previously was correct: for every person you attempt to enlighten, there's at least 5 other unenlightened folks who speak before doing their research. Please do research before posting. Please and thank you:
While Blizzard's ridiculous lawsuit was a tough blow, I maintain that the match fixing scandal (especially with Savior's involvement) crippled it to a greater extent. Match fixing scandals happens in every sport all over the world, the difference is that BW isn't a world-renowned sport like soccer and baseball. At this point, sponsors are simply afraid to go near it. Coupled with Blizzard doing everything they can to scrap BW in favor of SC2 (as if Blizzard's actions didn't speak loud enough, we had Mike Morhaime basically say, "hey, in with the new, out with the old, 'cause the new will give us more money!") and you have yourself BW's current predicament.
Ribbon United States. July 17 2012 10:18. Posts 5020
On July 10 2012 23:26 Chef wrote: Blizzard needs to make BW freeware/public domain. That is one of the biggest hurdles because they grip their IP rights so tightly. No matter what, Blizzard will always be breathing down your neck. They cannot make money off BW anymore, but they don't want to give it up... Well, maybe they sponge some meager earnings off broadcasting rights, but if no BW is broadcasted then they don't have anything... They shouldn't bemoan people broadcasting BW when they give it up because it is not lost money if it wouldn't have happened otherwise. Blizzard needs some altruistic/publicity stunt like Google does.
I don't know if letters to Blizzard would do anything. I also don't know how expensive it would be to just buy the rights to it to release it. Or if it's possible to pay them a certain amount to make it public domain, rather than just transfering the property of it.
Scaling back player salaries and such has been suggested. Paying for a season of VODs like GSL operates is also viable. Many people would be willing to subscribe to BW. It wouldn't be the same experience as before, but if it is that or no BW at all, I would shell out 20-50 bucks for a full proleague season or OSL season (less $$ for an OSL tho, since there are so fewer games). If, with this subscription style, they provided subtitles (at least for interviews) it would also be really cool. And they could make the first VOD free just like GSL.
The real issue will be getting the players to stay with BW in that environment, and what quality we could expect the games to be, especially if some decide they've gone past the point of no return with SC2.
Lower operating costs with less B-teamers, and less games per match. bo5 format works well. If you have 5 a-teamers and 5-10 b-teamers/inbetweens, you can still show good games especially if everyone takes it seriously and the maps are good.
or maybe people should start team and programm a cheap flash game based on bw mechanics.
You can't replicate a complicated game like broodwar on flash ..
what do you mean ?
limitations of the flash engine, it's easier to do it in another engine or even make one from the ground up.
and would this be possible ? Like a realistic task ? Making a true esport RTS ?
Well there isn't a definition on what is a true "esports rts", I know BW is amazing but it could still be improved, and we would want genuine improvements.
If your talking about just replicating the BW game in a different engine, absolutely, Dota 2 is almost identical to Dota 1 in mechanics using a new engine.
what are people waiting for then TT
Budget, interest, niche appeal, copy-rights, corporate interests, competition, return on investment, other corporate bull shit that the new "legitimate" financial market is known for.
Also, the wackiness of the BW engine is part of the appeal of the gameplay.
If you're going to go that route, you might as well just try to make an entirely new game with a new IP. living up to the spirit of BW. A BW2, as opposed to an SC2. Battle Wars, or Boston Wranglers, or something.
Which is a kickstarter I would support, if there was a company devving it. At least it'd be something we'd own.
Please don't kill Brood War is all i can say that make any sense. Just... Don't.
I know the topic isent about this, but i really want to stress out that SC2 has nothing to do with BW demise, even if SC2 did not exist the game would be in the exact same situation.
The reason for its death is the declining viewership in Korea for Brood War, it is why sponsors have been running away. The average korean gamer has generally been more into MMOs and MOBA style games the last couple of years, there arent that many RTS fans, which is also why SC2 isent tearing it up viewership wise in Korea, but at least in west it is a big hit.
Instead of looking at SC2 like its some evil killer, look at as the only way many of your favorite BW players can find work and sponsors again to get paid for what they do best, what other RTS could they possibly transition to? Remember that many of them do not even have any qualifications to find good work, some might transition to another genre (LoL) but most would have to look for low end jobs. Instead they will get to go to USA for MLG and Europe for Dreamhack and continue their dreams, not everyone got paid like Flash and Jaedong.
To me that is at least comfronting
SC2 has everything to do with BW's demise. I guess Blizzard is also to blame. What a poor, poor post
But i never thought that SC2 would kill BroodWar. It's just sad.
Please don't kill Brood War is all i can say that make any sense. Just... Don't.
I know the topic isent about this, but i really want to stress out that SC2 has nothing to do with BW demise, even if SC2 did not exist the game would be in the exact same situation.
The reason for its death is the declining viewership in Korea for Brood War, it is why sponsors have been running away. The average korean gamer has generally been more into MMOs and MOBA style games the last couple of years, there arent that many RTS fans, which is also why SC2 isent tearing it up viewership wise in Korea, but at least in west it is a big hit.
Instead of looking at SC2 like its some evil killer, look at as the only way many of your favorite BW players can find work and sponsors again to get paid for what they do best, what other RTS could they possibly transition to? Remember that many of them do not even have any qualifications to find good work, some might transition to another genre (LoL) but most would have to look for low end jobs. Instead they will get to go to USA for MLG and Europe for Dreamhack and continue their dreams, not everyone got paid like Flash and Jaedong.
To me that is at least comfronting
SC2 has everything to do with BW's demise. I guess Blizzard is also to blame. What a poor, poor post
Yeah if Blizzard didn't impose SC2 transition into OGN, sponsors would still be lining up. When sAviOr's scandals happened, sponsors were still appearing frequently 2 seasons later. It is ONLY until the old legends like NaDa, BoxeR, and JulyZerg went away that sponsors were getting scarce. + I really think that OGN missed their BIG timing of grabbing Artosis and Tasteless as their English casters. They could have opened their doors to the western world.
2012 - Remember of the Fallen Heroes and Command the way to your victory.
Ribbon United States. July 18 2012 03:24. Posts 5020
Guys, who cares WHY BW is in so much trouble? That's the past. Complaining about other games isn't helping, at all. Let's instead focus on how to revive BW.
On July 17 2012 12:18 KILLB0T wrote: I LOVE BROODWAR! I'M IN THE SAME BOAT, I LOVE PLAYING IT BUT CAN RARELY FIND GAMES I USUALLY SEARCH FOR A BIT THEN GIVE UP TO PLAY LoL OR SC2
I think part of what makes SC2 so popular is how easy it is to ladder and find people at your skill level. Everytime I go to play BW I have to spend tons of time before I find a game, and then often its a smurf and I get crapped on bad. T_T.
Just when I opened this thread my itunes randomed the prince of egypt from the disney movie. "There can be miracles, when you believe". Felt fitting.
Brood War is for me by far the greatest game of all time. No other game or sports have made me FEEL like following the brood war scene. I have a big bottle of vodka lined up for the OSL finals. Tears will be shed.
Backho fan since 080416. Favourite terran: Mind. Favourite Zerg: Jaedong.
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KILLB0T Canada. July 17 2012 12:18. Posts 6
I USUALLY SEARCH FOR A BIT THEN GIVE UP TO PLAY LoL OR SC2 
Xiphos Canada. July 18 2012 03:17. Posts 5732
